Fold my hand and apply next year???

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)

Apply next year?

Apply next year
6
14%
Wustl (full-ride small living stipend)
9
20%
Illinois (full-ride)
9
20%
NYU
20
45%
 
Total votes: 44

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LAWLAW09
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:51 pm

sojasoph wrote:I thought undergrad wasn't that huge of a factor but it could have been the little nudge that got me waitlisted.


I wonder how many folks on that list did NOT write a GPA addendum.

I can think of a many bad explanations (that leaves an applicant in a negative light) for why an applicant with a great LSAT score but a low gpa wouldn't write a gpa addendum.

I can't think of one good reason why those same applicants wouldn't.

You should be telling them what to believe about every significant factor that's a part of your application's evaluation. I don't see how making them guess what happened with your gpa helped. (with a 178 and a low gpa, they are thinking something happened)


bk1 wrote:@LAWLAW: I can't tell whether you are agreeing or disagreeing.


There are issues with the sample size and too many unknowns for me to claim I know how much his GPA killed him. With his LSAT score, I don't think he should have been waitlisted at those schools for reasons outside of YP, and I think the qoted LSN applicants indicate that neither YP or an aversion to his GPA was the single cause for why he was waitlisted. (not that anybody was arguing that.) With regards to my opinions directed at him, if I were an adcomm, I would have serious questions marks about an applicant that chose not to tell me what I should think about his low GPA.

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bk1
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby bk1 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:54 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:
sojasoph wrote:I thought undergrad wasn't that huge of a factor but it could have been the little nudge that got me waitlisted.


I wonder how many folks on that list did NOT write a GPA addendum.

I can think of a many bad explanations (that leaves an applicant in a negative light) for why an applicant with a great LSAT score but a low gpa wouldn't write a gpa addendum.

I can't think of one good reason why those same applicants wouldn't.

You should be telling them what to believe about every significant factor that's a part of your application's evaluation. I don't see how making them guess what happened with your gpa helped. (with a 178 and a low gpa, they are thinking something happened)


bk1 wrote:@LAWLAW: I can't tell whether you are agreeing or disagreeing.


There are issues with the sample size and too many unknowns for me to claim I know how much his GPA killed him. With his LSAT score, I don't think he should have been waitlisted at those schools for reasons outside of YP, and I think the qoted LSN applicants indicate that neither YP or an aversion to his GPA was the single cause for why he was waitlisted. (not that anybody was arguing that.) With regards to my opinions directed at him, if I were an adcomm, I would have serious questions marks about an applicant that chose not to tell me what I should think about his low GPA.


You really think that saying "I slacked off and partied a lot during college but you should look at my LSAT as indicative of my ability more than my GPA" is better for an application than saying nothing at all?

I think that a weak (not incredibly so but maybe slightly) app plus YP may have been the reason why he was waitlistpwned.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:12 pm

bk1 wrote:
You really think that saying "I slacked off and partied a lot during college but you should look at my LSAT as indicative of my ability more than my GPA" is better for an application than saying nothing at all?

I think that a weak (not incredibly so but maybe slightly) app plus YP may have been the reason why he was waitlistpwned.




lol. Nah. OP, don't use that excuse. He could have spinned it as:

"For the last blah blah months/year, I've experienced an intellectual/academic transformation. This is why it happened. how it happened, and why the academic excellence reflected in my LSAT score will continue to be present not just in the courses that I take over the next three years, but in the career that follows." That's an argument that can be mitigating, if not convincing. There's no way they can disprove such an intellectual/emotional transformation didn't take place, and it might lead an adcomm to wonder just how much untapped intellectual potential is out there. (Describing growth in one's application can a good thing, right?)

At the very least, an adcomm gets to hear from the applicant that he believes his gpa isn't acceptable to him, and that he has no intentions of duplicating that academic performance in law school. I'd want to hear from an applicant that his understanding of academic excellence matches up with the institution's. I don't think leaving it open to interpretation that the applicant believes a 3.4 reflects academic excellence is the smartest move.
Last edited by LAWLAW09 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby bk1 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:13 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:lol. Nah. OP, don't use that excuse. He could have spinned it as:

"For the last blah blah months/year, I've experienced an intellectual/academic transformation. This is why it happened. how it happened, and why the academic excellence reflected in my LSAT score will continue to be present not just in the courses that I take over the next three years, but in the career that follows." That's an argument that can be mitigating, if not convincing. There's no way they can disprove such an intellectual/emotional transformation didn't take place, and it might lead an adcomm to wonder just how much untapped intellectual potential is out there. (Describing growth in one's application can a good thing, right?)

At the very least, an adcomm gets to hear from the applicant that he believes his gpa isn't acceptable to him, and that he has no intentions of duplicating that academic performance in law school. I'd want to hear from an applicant that his understanding of academic excellence matches up with the institution's. I don't think leaving it open to interpretation that the applicant considers a 3.4 to reflect academic excellent is smartest move.


Good point. Would be hard to justify a downward trend though I think. If you've got a bsexcuse for that I'd love to hear it. :)

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LAWLAW09
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:37 pm

bk1 wrote:Good point. Would be hard to justify a downward trend though I think. If you've got a bsexcuse for that I'd love to hear it. :)



lol.

There were family issues that took place while in school that are too severe and disheartening to adequately put into words. I understand that I'm taking a risk by giving such a vague explanation to such an important factor in evaluating applicants, and that it may be questioned, possibly even doubted. However, out of respect for my family, I will take that risk and will not go into detail about the unfortunate family circumstances that contributed to a decline in my grades. I know what academic excellence is, and I know that it is not reflected in a 3.4 gpa. I also knew that academic excellence wasn't reflected in my lsat score, which is why I made xyz sacrifices to retake the LSAT, so that I could score in line with my intellectual potential. For the last x months/years, I have taken steps to ensure that my academic performance in law school is in no way connected to my family or any other unconventional circumstances. These are the steps I have taken to put distance between myself and any and all possible distractions (the OP lived abroad did he not?). While my declining grade trend was explained in vague terms, I will now be as sincere and specific as possible: If given an opportunity to attend your school, I will be one of your top performing academic students, and I look forward to the effort, focus, and discipline that will be required to make that happen. blah blah blah..through in stuff about academic excellence...intellectual curiosity...ask me any questions, so I can give you a straightforward answer, etc etc.

Again, if I were an adcomm, I wouldn't want to guess about anything negative in someone's application. Make me believe what you want me to believe. At the least, try. I'd give a few points for that. lol

The addendum doesn't have to be 100% convincing for it to eliminate predictable unfavorable questions that are likely to be raised, if no explanation is offered.

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kkklick
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby kkklick » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:42 pm

sojasoph wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
fatduck wrote:ship it

lol

?

LMAO

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kkklick
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby kkklick » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:43 pm

I wouldn't waste a year, go to NYU and be a big fish in one of the largest legal markets in the world.

rundoxierun
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:37 pm

I really dont think you should expect any significant changes by waiting a year. Maybe if you waited four or five years but then you would have to retake the LSAT. That gpa plus your non-top undergrad is a killer. Despite what TLS says undergrad can be a factor in certain situations.

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applepiecrust
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby applepiecrust » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:42 pm

Go to NYU!!!!!

(Or withdraw; see if you can talk to adcomms about what went wrong with your applications, and reapply).

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:47 pm

im a bit surprised by the results ($-wise) for OP and even some of the holds...

something must be toxic in the app...PS or LORs

resume seems fine, GPA cant change, and LSAT is great. as long as your college wasnt a community college, for the most part, those schools wont downgrade the vale of a GPA from there

dare i say have someone proof read/read over your PS and see what their thoughts are?

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby yngblkgifted » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:21 am

sojasoph wrote:
bk1 wrote:
sojasoph wrote:
bk1 wrote:I don't think you can expect much better than NYU. I mean you have definite shots at those schools but as a splitter it is such a toss up.

However, if you want to teach for year I would definitely do that considering you won't get that chance after law school.


I was not thinking better than NYU ranking wise. I was looking for some top-15s with money.


This seems even less of a sure thing. Did you submit optional essays and Why X essays?

I mean if you want to take a year off and reapply I think you have a definite shot at $, but it wouldn't even be close to a sure thing and I would steel yourself for the possibility of not getting it.

I did not write a Why essay for Virginia. (I know how much of a mistake that was) I wrote two of the optional essays for michigan.

I should note that I don't want big law, though I would not mind for a few years if nec. I would like to teach or do PI.



Bad idea especially since you said it was your number one choice. Your cycle has confused the hell out of me. There must be something wrong with either LORs or your statements. Your GPA is low, but you got a 178! You are above Everyone's 75th percentile AND you are an AA male. You are a rarity that I thought law schools would be scrambling for immediately. Apparently for an AA male it must be Reverse Splitter > Splitter.

To be honest, it may be a pain in the ass to go through the entire process again, and you may or may not see better results considering how crippling your low GPA apparently is to these top schools. I say go to NYU (its still an amazing school and you should have good options coming from there).

If you go against this advice and decide to apply, I suggest WHY UVA, GPA Addendum,improving your PS dramatically and asking other people for LORs. Also, apply earlier.

Hey-O
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby Hey-O » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:04 am

When in the cycle did you apply? If it was very late that might explain some of this. This is a surprising result and you might get better next year, but only if you make some changes in your application.

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sojasoph
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby sojasoph » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:24 am

I applied in December. I did go to community college for two years and those two years are what brought down my gpa. I had a 3.9 in my last two years at a four year.

I definitely needed an addendum. I'm just going to change everything.

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sojasoph
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby sojasoph » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:32 am

What do you guys think about sending in a loci/expression of love for the school and if the class is full and they think I might be a valuable candidate for next cycle I would love being deferred? Is this kind of letter inappropriate?

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sojasoph
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby sojasoph » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:41 am

I know it means nothing but......
I got three emails from Columbia about fee waivers and two letters in the mail from their BLSA, why would they go through so much trouble just to hold me? It makes me lean toward there being an issue with my application. Though I know this is generally just for boosting rankings, it seems out of the way. Also are holds a better position than waitlist. Why nyu but not minn? it just seems upside down.

dddhhh
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby dddhhh » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:58 pm

sojasoph wrote:What do you guys think about sending in a loci/expression of love for the school and if the class is full and they think I might be a valuable candidate for next cycle I would love being deferred? Is this kind of letter inappropriate?


Which school?
I thought deferrals were only granted to admitted students, not wait list candidates. Wait list candidates usually have to reapply (in which case I would recommend contacting the school on how to improve your application, unless you know what you need to change). Make sure to look into their deferral process. Some schools require admitted students to submit the initial deposit before considering deferral requests and approve/deny on a case by case basis.

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fatduck
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:06 pm

dddhhh wrote:
sojasoph wrote:What do you guys think about sending in a loci/expression of love for the school and if the class is full and they think I might be a valuable candidate for next cycle I would love being deferred? Is this kind of letter inappropriate?


Which school?
I thought deferrals were only granted to admitted students, not wait list candidates. Wait list candidates usually have to reapply (in which case I would recommend contacting the school on how to improve your application, unless you know what you need to change). Make sure to look into their deferral process. Some schools require admitted students to submit the initial deposit before considering deferral requests and approve/deny on a case by case basis.

I forget which school but I have heard of applicants being admitted off the waitlist if they'll wait a year. I think NU does it and says "you're in next year if you get a year of WE."

dddhhh
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby dddhhh » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:08 pm

fatduck wrote:I forget which school but I have heard of applicants being admitted off the waitlist if they'll wait a year.


I think I heard that about Duke? Which I guess wouldn't help OP out too much...
Last edited by dddhhh on Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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danidancer
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby danidancer » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:15 pm

dddhhh wrote:
fatback wrote:I forget which school but I have heard of applicants being admitted off the waitlist if they'll wait a year.


I think I heard that about Duke? Which I guess wouldn't help OP out too much...


Michigan too, I think.

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Moxie
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby Moxie » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:22 pm

OP, when did you apply in the cycle? (I don't see it stated here, maybe im just not seeing it)

The 3.25 is tough, but a 178 lsat for an AA male is something a lot of schools would want. If I were you, I'd take NYU with some money (maybe negotiate with them), otherwise reapply. You should crack the T6, with an outside chance at HYS, if you apply early in next year's cycle.

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fatduck
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby fatduck » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:23 pm

dddhhh wrote:
fatback wrote:I forget which school but I have heard of applicants being admitted off the waitlist if they'll wait a year.


I think I heard that about Duke? Which I guess wouldn't help OP out too much...

did you change my name to fatback?

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Sh@keNb@ke
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby Sh@keNb@ke » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:19 pm

fatduck wrote:
dddhhh wrote:
fatback wrote:I forget which school but I have heard of applicants being admitted off the waitlist if they'll wait a year.


I think I heard that about Duke? Which I guess wouldn't help OP out too much...

did you change my name to fatback?


LOL

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby yngblkgifted » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:26 pm

fatduck wrote:
dddhhh wrote:
fatfuck wrote:I forget which school but I have heard of applicants being admitted off the waitlist if they'll wait a year.


I think I heard that about Duke? Which I guess wouldn't help OP out too much...

did you change my name to fatback?



One of these things is not like the other...sorry I couldn't resist.

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pattonthicke
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby pattonthicke » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:39 pm

tkgrrett wrote:Despite what TLS says undergrad can be a factor in certain situations.


One such situation is with urm's. Dont feel like posting links but on LSN there are many urms gettin into top schools with sub 160 lsats but they all went to an ivy undergrad. That said, OP is an AA male with a 178. Somethin went wrong with his application.

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northwood
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Re: Fold my hand and apply next year???

Postby northwood » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:43 pm

op- it seems as though you are not happy with your cycle so far. re take and re apply. what you should do, is contact the admissions office for the schools you really want . Not only will it help you figure out what part of you application you need to work on, but its also a sign that you really want to go there.




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