URM Male Ding Statistics

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
CanadianWolf
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:02 pm

The current USNews diversity rankings show New Mexico as the most diverse law school among the top 102 law schools with 10% Native American, 28.2% Hispanic, 3.7% Black, & 2.8% Asian.

Most Diverse Law Schools Among the Top Two Tiers:

New Mexico
Santa Clara
USC
Loyola Marymount
Northwestern (large Asian contingent)
American
Rutgers-Newark
Stanford
UCal-Berkeley
Cornell

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blacklawboss
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:05 pm

dr allen pearl wrote:7-7 1/2 inches.


Underestimation will get you nowhere smh :wink:

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bk1
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:14 pm

2.8/173 - Mexican/PR/White/Japanese

Ding
Columbia
Chicago
NYU (ED)
Boalt
Michigan
Virginia
Duke
UCLA
BC

WL/Held
Penn
GULC (ED)
NU
Hastings
Fordham
Illinois

Admit
WUSTL - 105k
GW - 105k

paulinaporizkova
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:17 pm

bk1 wrote:2.8/173 - Mexican/PR/White/Japanese

Ding
Columbia
Chicago
NYU (ED)
Boalt
Michigan
Virginia
Duke
UCLA
BC

WL/Held
Penn
GULC (ED)
NU
Hastings
Fordham
Illinois

Admit
WUSTL - 105k
GW - 105k



whaaaat? :( i would have thought you'd have done better. you'll get off some WLs i bet.

ps don't ask me why i'm in this thread.

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bk1
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:20 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:whaaaat? :( i would have thought you'd have done better. you'll get off some WLs i bet.

ps don't ask me why i'm in this thread.


GULC waitlist was a bit of a surprise. NU held is probably because I didn't interview right away (stupid me) and didn't have any CPE's (I had just started my job a few months earlier and wasn't comfortable asking for them). Everything else (except the scholarship $) isn't much of a surprise imo.

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blacklawboss
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:22 pm

bk1 wrote:2.8/173 - Mexican/PR/White/Japanese

Ding
Columbia
Chicago
NYU (ED)
Boalt
Michigan
Virginia
Duke
UCLA
BC

WL/Held
Penn
GULC (ED)
NU
Hastings
Fordham
Illinois

Admit
WUSTL - 105k
GW - 105k


yeah same here. Not being snide, but do you think adcomm's didn't consider you enough URM? meaning PS and background don't reflect that?

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bk1
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:31 pm

blacklawboss wrote:yeah same here. Not being snide, but do you think adcomm's didn't consider you enough URM? meaning PS and background don't reflect that?


I don't think so. My waitlists and acceptances generally reflect URM status ($105k for my numbers at GW/WUSTL is basically unheard of). My DS submitted to all schools was about being multiracial and included parts from all of my background.

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r2b2ct
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby r2b2ct » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:34 pm

bk1 wrote:2.8/173 - Mexican/PR/White/Japanese

Ding
Columbia
Chicago
NYU (ED)
Boalt
Michigan
Virginia
Duke
UCLA
BC

WL/Held
Penn
GULC (ED)
NU
Hastings
Fordham
Illinois

Admit
WUSTL - 105k
GW - 105k

When did you apply? I am an AA male with similar numbers (slightly lower) and I have applied to many of the same schools. Unfortunately, I applied very late so I have not received any decisions yet. Just wondering if late applications has any major affect for URMs.

Personally, I would be pretty happy with those scholly offers.

GL w/ those waitlists.

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bk1
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:40 pm

r2b2ct wrote:When did you apply? I am an AA male with similar numbers (slightly lower) and I have applied to many of the same schools. Unfortunately, I applied very late so I have not received any decisions yet. Just wondering if late applications has any major affect for URMs.

Personally, I would be pretty happy with those scholly offers.

GL w/ those waitlists.


Thanks. The scholly offers are nice, but GW (which I will probably take if I don't get off any waitlists) is still going to cost around $100k once cost of living is factored in. That's a lot of debt to stomach.

I think late applications have major effects on everybody, though probably less so on URMs because schools are scrounging for them. I applied in September to pretty much all of those schools and there are still some I haven't heard from (BU, USC, Davis, Cornell deferral from EA).

elm84dr
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby elm84dr » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:40 pm

Black/Latino male/160/3.3

Ding:
Harvard
NYU
UChicago

W/L:
Vanderbilt
Columbia
Notre Dame

Admit:
BU
BC ($75,000)
Fordham ($90,000)
Cornell (just in!)
Suffolk
Emory

WAITING:
GEORGETOWN---where you at???

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bk1
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:42 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:The current USNews diversity rankings show New Mexico as the most diverse law school among the top 102 law schools with 10% Native American, 28.2% Hispanic, 3.7% Black, & 2.8% Asian.

Most Diverse Law Schools Among the Top Two Tiers:

New Mexico
Santa Clara
USC
Loyola Marymount
Northwestern (large Asian contingent)
American
Rutgers-Newark
Stanford
UCal-Berkeley
Cornell


Just to note, USNWR's diversity index is calculated based on how dissimilar the class is. So the highest possible diversity index would be achieved by something like: 20% Asian, 20% White, 20% Black, 20% NA, 20% Hispanic.

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Ikki
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby Ikki » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:53 pm

3.495/167 Mexican

Ding
Harvard
UVA
Berkeley

Waitlisted
GULC
UCLA
Notre Dame (I guess these fuckers don't like atheists)


Admitted
Cornell
BU 105k
Fordham

Pending
Columbia (Held)
NYU
Duke

I will edit once I hear from CND
Last edited by Ikki on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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tooswolle
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby tooswolle » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:55 pm

I thought I'd respond to this post for a few reasons. First, because it seems schools claim to want diversity yet reject urm students like crazy. Second, to notice what kind of trend there is in admissions; from the anecdotal evidence it seems like even being MA doesn't give you a boost at all...WTF is up with that???? My final reason because someone mentioned the implementation of diversity in the rankings system. Frankly I would be glad if they did it, not because I'd benefit but because others would and and we'd move that much close to equality because let's face it schools care about rankings and if urm's help them they'd recruit us like crazy.

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bk1
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:58 pm

tooswolle wrote:I thought I'd respond to this post for a few reasons. First, because it seems schools claim to want diversity yet reject urm students like crazy. Second, to notice what kind of trend there is in admissions; from the anecdotal evidence it seems like even being MA doesn't give you a boost at all...WTF is up with that???? My final reason because someone mentioned the implementation of diversity in the rankings system. Frankly I would be glad if they did it, not because I'd benefit but because others would and and we'd move that much close to equality because let's face it schools care about rankings and if urm's help them they'd recruit us like crazy.


They do want diversity but they are only willing to dip so low in numbers to get it (e.g. they don't like taking sub 3's or sub 160's that often). That they already have laxer admissions standards for URMs does show that they do want URMs.

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Ikki
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby Ikki » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:59 pm

tooswolle wrote:I thought I'd respond to this post for a few reasons. First, because it seems schools claim to want diversity yet reject urm students like crazy. Second, to notice what kind of trend there is in admissions; from the anecdotal evidence it seems like even being MA doesn't give you a boost at all...WTF is up with that???? My final reason because someone mentioned the implementation of diversity in the rankings system. Frankly I would be glad if they did it, not because I'd benefit but because others would and and we'd move that much close to equality because let's face it schools care about rankings and if urm's help them they'd recruit us like crazy.


Honestly, I feel like I have benefited from my URM status during this cycle. Look at my numbers, they are at the 75th percentile on the LSAT and 25th on GPA at BU, yet they offered me about 90% tuition, I really doubt any of my white counterparts got such a deal.

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tooswolle
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby tooswolle » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:04 pm

Not sure how much that's true I have a 3.3 lsac (3.6 degree) 158 and got straight up rejected at some schools, waitlisted at others and others I haven't heard back from. Now my numbers aren't stellar but if taken in consideration with my background and what I've gone through they are solid. I just feel like coming up from the "streets" and making it through adversity while being a urm speaks more then numbers ever can, which is my fundamental problem with the system as it is. If they instituted diversity in to the scheme schools would have the incentive to be more inclusive and let's be honest the profession needs it and so does the youth. More educated urm's can hopefully help inspire others.

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Ikki
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby Ikki » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:05 pm

tooswolle wrote:Not sure how much that's true I have a 3.3 lsac (3.6 degree) 158 and got straight up rejected at some schools, waitlisted at others and others I haven't heard back from. Now my numbers aren't stellar but if taken in consideration with my background and what I've gone through they are solid. I just feel like coming up from the "streets" and making it through adversity while being a urm speaks more then numbers ever can, which is my fundamental problem with the system as it is. If they instituted diversity in to the scheme schools would have the incentive to be more inclusive and let's be honest the profession needs it and so does the youth. More educated urm's can hopefully help inspire others.


Even for a URM, those numbers are pretty low. I don't think anyone owes us admission at a law school simply because we are underrepresented, if you wanted to secure a spot at a top law school, you would have done yourself a favor if you had retaken the LSAT.

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tooswolle
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby tooswolle » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:09 pm

I never said I was owed anything, frankly neither do I believe it. Will I take the LSAT again, most likely I got screwed up by one section and that screwed my score up. If I didn't have to work full time while in college my gpa could have been higher. In the end it is what is, but my chief complaint is the lack of color higher education has which is magnified in law schools for me because I am in the process.

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Moxie
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby Moxie » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:10 pm

tooswolle wrote:I thought I'd respond to this post for a few reasons. First, because it seems schools claim to want diversity yet reject urm students like crazy. Second, to notice what kind of trend there is in admissions; from the anecdotal evidence it seems like even being MA doesn't give you a boost at all...WTF is up with that???? My final reason because someone mentioned the implementation of diversity in the rankings system. Frankly I would be glad if they did it, not because I'd benefit but because others would and and we'd move that much close to equality because let's face it schools care about rankings and if urm's help them they'd recruit us like crazy.


Schools will accept URMs with lower numbers, but there are enough "high-achieving" URMs for these top schools to reject people with LSAT < 160 or GPA < 3.0. URMs do help them, by allowing them to claim their "diverse".

And reflecting on my cycle last year as an AA male, I did better than: a) my white counterparts, b) AA females with similar numbers on LSN, c) other URMs. I think the combination of race and gender is the best way to look at URM cycles.

EDIT: I agree with the post above that higher education does not include enough diversity, but law schools are clearly lowering standards for URMs, and I trust that they make their decisions to provide a well-rounded but also intelligent student body.

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Justathought
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby Justathought » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:12 pm

One thing I'll say, and this is unrelated to the drama which may or may not ensue in the next few posts, is that an "upward trend" is really doesn't matter all that much. I returned to school after an 8 year absence, in that time I had some very solid work experience. When I went back to school I got a 4.0 over 39 credits to finish my degree. That's a fairly substantial portion of my college credit, and coupled with a 164, and URM status, I thought I would get a few more bites on reaches than I did.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm pretty happy with my choices thus far, and I still may get into a great school or two, but at the end of the day, a 2.4 cumulative GPA is just that, and I don't think adcoms are going that low too often. No matter how good your recent work.

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blacklawboss
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:17 pm

tooswolle wrote:I never said I was owed anything, frankly neither do I believe it. Will I take the LSAT again, most likely I got screwed up by one section and that screwed my score up. If I didn't have to work full time while in college my gpa could have been higher. In the end it is what is, but my chief complaint is the lack of color higher education has which is magnified in law schools for me because I am in the process.


Are you MA? And honestly I agree with a lot of your points, But schools do recruit URM's like crazy the problem is that there aren't a lot of us out there. So here's my take on lack or limited bump for Mexican Americans. Mexican Americans come from strong communities sort of like Hasidic Jewish people and have strong family ties that AA and PR URM's don't share. Even if MA family is 1st generation and lives in El Barrio dad is there working long days and mom is home to support the family. Yes there are instances where that is not true, but the majority that I've witnessed growing up in Texas and living in NYC show's me the strong family bonds and ideals. AA and PR get a larger bump because of the long history of oppression in this great country.

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tooswolle
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby tooswolle » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:18 pm

I agree with the sentiment of building a solid and qualified class. But numbers only go so far, for example a presiding justice of a court of appeals wrote my letter, I'm friends with a senior tax manager at a larger firm and I don't mean to name drop. But I'm using it as an example that there is more to people then their numbers, like charisma and street smarts. Moreover if the field was leveled from day one and both the urm and non urm student had the same opportunities in life would their be a gap? I don't know in general my frustration is with the system and my perceptions of the lack of opportunities for urm's.

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Ikki
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby Ikki » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:23 pm

tooswolle wrote:I agree with the sentiment of building a solid and qualified class. But numbers only go so far, for example a presiding justice of a court of appeals wrote my letter, I'm friends with a senior tax manager at a larger firm and I don't mean to name drop. But I'm using it as an example that there is more to people then their numbers, like charisma and street smarts. Moreover if the field was leveled from day one and both the urm and non urm student had the same opportunities in life would their be a gap? I don't know in general my frustration is with the system and my perceptions of the lack of opportunities for urm's.


And how exactly are you supposed to quantify that? Like one of the above posters said, when there is a significant pool of URM applicants that score in the 160s and have 3.0+ GPAs they can have the luxury of rejecting those URMs with lower numbers.

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blacklawboss
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:24 pm

Moxie wrote:
tooswolle wrote:I thought I'd respond to this post for a few reasons. First, because it seems schools claim to want diversity yet reject urm students like crazy. Second, to notice what kind of trend there is in admissions; from the anecdotal evidence it seems like even being MA doesn't give you a boost at all...WTF is up with that???? My final reason because someone mentioned the implementation of diversity in the rankings system. Frankly I would be glad if they did it, not because I'd benefit but because others would and and we'd move that much close to equality because let's face it schools care about rankings and if urm's help them they'd recruit us like crazy.


Schools will accept URMs with lower numbers, but there are enough "high-achieving" URMs for these top schools to reject people with LSAT < 160 or GPA < 3.0. URMs do help them, by allowing them to claim their "diverse".

And reflecting on my cycle last year as an AA male, I did better than: a) my white counterparts, b) AA females with similar numbers on LSN, c) other URMs. I think the combination of race and gender is the best way to look at URM cycles.

EDIT: I agree with the post above that higher education does not include enough diversity, but law schools are clearly lowering standards for URMs, and I trust that they make their decisions to provide a well-rounded but also intelligent student body.


A lot of the problems lie in Undergraduate studies. So many URM's are 1st generation college students, so they are happy to go anywhere while the majority class of America goes to top tier universities. It becomes the natural progression to attend a top tier law school from there. Also the learning from top tier universities better prepares students for graduate schools, and graduate school test's like the lsat, gmat, mcat, and gre. To quote Malcolm Gladwell from his book Outliers from the study of diversity students in UMich law school, once they were in and graduated with a JD they did equally as good as their white counterparts. It's not race, but opportunity and exposure in education. These schools know that and are trying to right the wrongs for the most part, but there aren't a lot of URM's especially AA and PR men trying to attend graduate schools.

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Justathought
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Re: URM Male Ding Statistics

Postby Justathought » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:24 pm

tooswolle wrote:I agree with the sentiment of building a solid and qualified class. But numbers only go so far, for example a presiding justice of a court of appeals wrote my letter, I'm friends with a senior tax manager at a larger firm and I don't mean to name drop. But I'm using it as an example that there is more to people then their numbers, like charisma and street smarts. Moreover if the field was leveled from day one and both the urm and non urm student had the same opportunities in life would their be a gap? I don't know in general my frustration is with the system and my perceptions of the lack of opportunities for urm's.


I would personally like to know how your cycle has gone thus far. I don't mean to pry, but maybe you have gotten a boost. 3.3 and 158 is no cakewalk as we know, but if you're in at a few T1s I think that would qualify. A lot of non-urm applicants would be shut out. I know I have certainly gotten into a few schools I wouldn't have without being Puerto Rican, but its nothing at all like the people who say, "Oh PR with a 164?! Enjoy CCN." That's just nonsense if you don't have a solid GPA.




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