Howard law school

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
toddyky18
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Howard law school

Postby toddyky18 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:50 pm

I want to attend howard next fall, and I wondering is there any Howard grad or current Howard students on here with any info on the school? I've been following this forum and there is a lot of people with bad comments about Howard, but would rather have info from actual students.

mimi82
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Re: Howard law school

Postby mimi82 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:17 pm

I graduated from Howard undergrad. But the same feeling is pretty much felt throughout all the schools there. I personally would never go there again. However, I also can't say that if I had to do it over again I wouldn't go. I have a love/hate relationship with that school. The students and environment is good. I like competition and the kids there gave me that. Plus I grew up in a white area and so with my black friends I was always the 'proper' talking one. So when I went here and we all sounded alike I felt comfortable. The education is good, and to be part of the Howard community is a plus. Whenever someone in the area wants to have more minority interns or something they automatically go to Howard. Howard is thought as where the smart black kids are.

Now the bad part. I would never let me child go to this school if I weren't living close by. I say this because of the administration. They act like you are bothering them, and they don't have to do their job. They treat you like crap on the bottom of their shoes. And I was not one to take that. I had to fight a lot. I mean A LOT!!! I was always angry and always yelling at someone. Why? Well because they loose stuff, then they blame it on you. They don't answer phones. They are very unorganized. No one has any idea what the other office does and you can spend all day running around the campus and get nothing done because everyone swears they aren't the ones to handle something. My best friends became the Provost and the Special Assistant to the President of the School. Anytime I had a problem that I couldn't get done on my own I just sent an email cc'ing them and then magically it happened. Financial aid is a joke. They change the times like everyday and then say they posted it!! I mean I can go on and on with the problems. But basically its just the administration. If you can deal with that then go. But I wouldn't recommend it.

toddyky18
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Re: Howard law school

Postby toddyky18 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:37 pm

That's very discouraging. How about the quality of faculty and education? Upon graduation how was your employment option in big cities? If you don't mind me asking.

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OGR3
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Re: Howard law school

Postby OGR3 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:41 pm

mimi82 wrote:I graduated from Howard undergrad. But the same feeling is pretty much felt throughout all the schools there. I personally would never go there again. However, I also can't say that if I had to do it over again I wouldn't go. I have a love/hate relationship with that school. The students and environment is good. I like competition and the kids there gave me that. Plus I grew up in a white area and so with my black friends I was always the 'proper' talking one. So when I went here and we all sounded alike I felt comfortable. The education is good, and to be part of the Howard community is a plus. Whenever someone in the area wants to have more minority interns or something they automatically go to Howard. Howard is thought as where the smart black kids are.

Now the bad part. I would never let me child go to this school if I weren't living close by. I say this because of the administration. They act like you are bothering them, and they don't have to do their job. They treat you like crap on the bottom of their shoes. And I was not one to take that. I had to fight a lot. I mean A LOT!!! I was always angry and always yelling at someone. Why? Well because they loose stuff, then they blame it on you. They don't answer phones. They are very unorganized. No one has any idea what the other office does and you can spend all day running around the campus and get nothing done because everyone swears they aren't the ones to handle something. My best friends became the Provost and the Special Assistant to the President of the School. Anytime I had a problem that I couldn't get done on my own I just sent an email cc'ing them and then magically it happened. Financial aid is a joke. They change the times like everyday and then say they posted it!! I mean I can go on and on with the problems. But basically its just the administration. If you can deal with that then go. But I wouldn't recommend it.


Howard's law school is on a completely independent campus. When I went to visit after I was accepted I couldn't believe how nice all the students and staff were. Keep in mind this person is discussing their undergrad experience.

toddyky18
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Re: Howard law school

Postby toddyky18 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:51 pm

OgR3- if its possible could you share some of the things you witnessed during your visit

Aqualibrium
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Re: Howard law school

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm

Just do a search. There are a couple of old threads that have good info on Howard.

toddyky18
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Re: Howard law school

Postby toddyky18 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:34 pm

I did some research thoughout this site, but there is only future students who talk about schools as if they have been there and graduated already. I would like info from someone with real life knowledge,not just statistics they read somewhere

Aqualibrium
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Re: Howard law school

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:51 pm

toddyky18 wrote:I did some research thoughout this site, but there is only future students who talk about schools as if they have been there and graduated already. I would like info from someone with real life knowledge,not just statistics they read somewhere


I don't think you need to graduate from the school to have real life knowledge. Regardless, your best bet is to get in contact with an actual student, and I don't think I've ever seen a Howard 2l or 3l on those site.

mimi82
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Re: Howard law school

Postby mimi82 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:06 pm

No I didn't go to Howard Law school but as I said its the administration that's the problem. I've heard the same thing from the undergrad, grad programs, medical school, and law school. Its all the same drama. I've been to Howard law school campus and no its not in the same area. Its in DC but in a different location.

For job prospects...I really can't speak too much on that because I already had a job and I was slightly older than the other students. So I had lots of job experience and I just needed that degree to take me to the next level. Which it did. And now I want the law degree to take me to a higher level.
I think being in DC is the positive thing about going to Howard. Our unemployment rate is not like everyone elses. The internships are abundent. You can gain plenty of work experience if you really want to. And like I said, everyone (as in businesses) goes to Howard to increase diversity in the office. There are other HBCUs in the area but they all automatically go to Howard. And I know the offices that I've worked in within the gov't have usually hired the interns fulltime upon graduation. And with the gov't you have coop opportunities as a law student.

cowgirl_bebop
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Re: Howard law school

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:13 pm

Im going to cosign on everything mimi82 has said. I am a current HU undergrad student and I have absolutely no interest in their law school. I have been to visit and spoken with HU Law students, past and present, and they apparently have the same issues the undergraduates have: the administration.

If you have your heart set on Howard, do not let me discourage you. Just know that it is a constant battle with an underfunded, slow administration for everything. They are often disorganized and their ability to communicate with the students effectively is near zero. One positive thing about HU is that companies come there to get their "diversity hires", and they have produced a great number of successful alumni, so they are not all bad. But depending on your numbers, you may want to try to go for another school in DC/MD/VA with a bit better reputation and employment situation.

Be sure that you check the school out for yourself and talk to current students, and not just ones who's job it is to gas you up. Talk to people who are going to give you an honest breakdown of the school.

mimi82
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Re: Howard law school

Postby mimi82 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:00 am

Thanks cowgirl_bebop!! Everyone make it like I'm just tripping. I remember people warning me not to go to Howard but of course I didn't listen. I love the education there without a doubt. Its just such a shame that the administration is such crap. They ruin the whole HU experience.

toddyky18 I wouldn't say for you not to go. I would just say weigh out the situation. And also talk to current and past HU law students. Make sure to ask them about the actual classroom experience.

Goodluck. :)

jgloster
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Re: Howard law school

Postby jgloster » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:13 pm

cowgirl_bebop wrote:Im going to cosign on everything mimi82 has said. I am a current HU undergrad student and I have absolutely no interest in their law school. I have been to visit and spoken with HU Law students, past and present, and they apparently have the same issues the undergraduates have: the administration.

If you have your heart set on Howard, do not let me discourage you. Just know that it is a constant battle with an underfunded, slow administration for everything. They are often disorganized and their ability to communicate with the students effectively is near zero. One positive thing about HU is that companies come there to get their "diversity hires", and they have produced a great number of successful alumni, so they are not all bad. But depending on your numbers, you may want to try to go for another school in DC/MD/VA with a bit better reputation and employment situation.

Be sure that you check the school out for yourself and talk to current students, and not just ones who's job it is to gas you up. Talk to people who are going to give you an honest breakdown of the school.


This saddens me a bit, because as a AA male who has gone to largely white schools all my life, I would have loved to applied to Howard Law for a different kind of experience. However, this post makes me a bit reticent. I guess I'll apply anyhow but might have to visit and do my own research.

Just out of curiosity, how is recruiting at Howard compared to T14 schools (job-wise)?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Howard law school

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:29 pm

What other schools have you been accepted to? It is easier to compare and contrast if we know what your options are.

Before going into depth, I will say that it is hard to directly compare law schools for AA candidates. However, I will say this: If your gpa is 3.0 or higher, you will be very competitive for a lot of jobs. The problem with Howard is that it curves to below a 3.0. As a result, odds are that you will have difficulty securing high profile legal employment unless you are in the top of your class. This is an issue with most tier 3/4 schools - they curve so low that only the top of the class is competitive (not even URMs are immune to the dreaded 2.9 or lower gpa).

Most of the brand name law schools curve to about a 3.2-3.3 (T14s and most T50s). Therefore, as long as you aren't in the bottom 20-30%, you will be competitive for some jobs. Having a gpa above 3.0 thing is even more meaningful for URMs because it makes them even more competitive than ORM candidates will similar gpas because many employers will dip a little for URM candidates - but many won't touch a gpa below 3.0 from a top school (maybe a couple of T14 exceptions?) or below latin honors from a non-top school.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Howard law school

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:32 pm

jgloster wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:Im going to cosign on everything mimi82 has said. I am a current HU undergrad student and I have absolutely no interest in their law school. I have been to visit and spoken with HU Law students, past and present, and they apparently have the same issues the undergraduates have: the administration.

If you have your heart set on Howard, do not let me discourage you. Just know that it is a constant battle with an underfunded, slow administration for everything. They are often disorganized and their ability to communicate with the students effectively is near zero. One positive thing about HU is that companies come there to get their "diversity hires", and they have produced a great number of successful alumni, so they are not all bad. But depending on your numbers, you may want to try to go for another school in DC/MD/VA with a bit better reputation and employment situation.

Be sure that you check the school out for yourself and talk to current students, and not just ones who's job it is to gas you up. Talk to people who are going to give you an honest breakdown of the school.


This saddens me a bit, because as a AA male who has gone to largely white schools all my life, I would have loved to applied to Howard Law for a different kind of experience. However, this post makes me a bit reticent. I guess I'll apply anyhow but might have to visit and do my own research.

Just out of curiosity, how is recruiting at Howard compared to T14 schools (job-wise)?



Howard has A LOT of employers come to OCI. The problem is only the top 25-30 students in the class have any chance of even getting an interview for those jobs. If you're in the top 20% at Howard, you're probably golden so long as you don't suck at interviewing. If you're in the next 10%, you may find something, but it wont be through OCI. If you're in the next 20%, you're probably screwed if you aren't a real hustler. If you're in the next 50%, it doesn't really matter cuz you're probably gonna fail the bar anyway.


How do I know this? A simple analysis of Howard's own job and bar passage statistics, and many many conversations with my friends currently at HU. If you can't get into a top 30 or so school with significant scholarship money, my advice would be to go to Howard over a t2. Your opportunities will be much better from HU. Don't go if you get into a t14 (even at or near sticker).

Aqualibrium
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Re: Howard law school

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:33 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:What other schools have you been accepted to? It is easier to compare and contrast if we know what your options are.

Before going into depth, I will say that it is hard to directly compare law schools for AA candidates. However, I will say this: If your gpa is 3.0 or higher, you will be very competitive for a lot of jobs. The problem with Howard is that it curves to below a 3.0. As a result, odds are that you will have difficulty securing high profile legal employment unless you are in the top of your class. This is an issue with most tier 3/4 schools - they curve so low that only the top of the class is competitive (not even URMs are immune to the dreaded 2.9 or lower gpa).

Most of the brand name law schools curve to about a 3.2-3.3 (T14s and most T50s). Therefore, as long as you aren't in the bottom 20-30%, you will be competitive for some jobs. Having a gpa above 3.0 thing is even more meaningful for URMs because it makes them even more competitive than ORM candidates will similar gpas because many employers will dip a little for URM candidates - but many won't touch a gpa below 3.0 from a top school (maybe a couple of T14 exceptions?) or below latin honors from a non-top school.



You are really stuck on this gpa thing Zombie!

ksimon2007
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Re: Howard law school

Postby ksimon2007 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:35 pm

jgloster wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:Im going to cosign on everything mimi82 has said. I am a current HU undergrad student and I have absolutely no interest in their law school. I have been to visit and spoken with HU Law students, past and present, and they apparently have the same issues the undergraduates have: the administration.

If you have your heart set on Howard, do not let me discourage you. Just know that it is a constant battle with an underfunded, slow administration for everything. They are often disorganized and their ability to communicate with the students effectively is near zero. One positive thing about HU is that companies come there to get their "diversity hires", and they have produced a great number of successful alumni, so they are not all bad. But depending on your numbers, you may want to try to go for another school in DC/MD/VA with a bit better reputation and employment situation.

Be sure that you check the school out for yourself and talk to current students, and not just ones who's job it is to gas you up. Talk to people who are going to give you an honest breakdown of the school.


This saddens me a bit, because as a AA male who has gone to largely white schools all my life, I would have loved to applied to Howard Law for a different kind of experience. However, this post makes me a bit reticent. I guess I'll apply anyhow but might have to visit and do my own research.

Just out of curiosity, how is recruiting at Howard compared to T14 schools (job-wise)?


Most of my education has been at predominantly white schools. Law school should not be about a black experience. Volunteer at an inner city school or something of that nature for an experience. Go to the law school that gives you access to the best legal education and access to the career you want. I think Howard is fine as someone looking from the outside, but it seems to me that the best lawyers, regardless of race, come from the best law schools. I'm not limiting that list to the top 14, but I would assert that if you can get into a top 30 law school go there before going to Howard for a black experience.
Last edited by ksimon2007 on Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cowgirl_bebop
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Re: Howard law school

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:41 pm

jgloster wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:Im going to cosign on everything mimi82 has said. I am a current HU undergrad student and I have absolutely no interest in their law school. I have been to visit and spoken with HU Law students, past and present, and they apparently have the same issues the undergraduates have: the administration.

If you have your heart set on Howard, do not let me discourage you. Just know that it is a constant battle with an underfunded, slow administration for everything. They are often disorganized and their ability to communicate with the students effectively is near zero. One positive thing about HU is that companies come there to get their "diversity hires", and they have produced a great number of successful alumni, so they are not all bad. But depending on your numbers, you may want to try to go for another school in DC/MD/VA with a bit better reputation and employment situation.

Be sure that you check the school out for yourself and talk to current students, and not just ones who's job it is to gas you up. Talk to people who are going to give you an honest breakdown of the school.


This saddens me a bit, because as a AA male who has gone to largely white schools all my life, I would have loved to applied to Howard Law for a different kind of experience. However, this post makes me a bit reticent. I guess I'll apply anyhow but might have to visit and do my own research.

Just out of curiosity, how is recruiting at Howard compared to T14 schools (job-wise)?


HU is a "black school", and you know exactly what I mean and what that entails. They have the same perks and drawbacks of every other HBCU. They may be at the top of the HBCU list, but they are in no way immune to the financial, administrative, and other fundamental issues that plague today's black schools. So take that for what it's worth.

If you are REALLY looking for the black college experience, the mega URM job boost, and perhaps some $$, Howard may be your spot so long as you can deal with the other issues. I know several people who have graduated from Howard Law and loved it. I personally have had enough and just need a change of location and to meet new people.

If you can get a good scholarship to a better school, I would take it.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Howard law school

Postby Stanford4Me » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:53 pm

jgloster wrote:Just out of curiosity, how is recruiting at Howard compared to T14 schools (job-wise)?

While Howard places well, it mainly places students who graduate at the top of the class. While I can't speak for Howard, I can certainly speak for the T14. I have 5 interviews lined up over winter break for 1L Summer gigs at V100 law firms. I think it's mostly because of the school I am at (and the fact that I am a URM). If I had to choose between T14 and Howard, it would be T14 for me every time.

jgloster
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Re: Howard law school

Postby jgloster » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:59 pm

ksimon2007 wrote:
jgloster wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:Im going to cosign on everything mimi82 has said. I am a current HU undergrad student and I have absolutely no interest in their law school. I have been to visit and spoken with HU Law students, past and present, and they apparently have the same issues the undergraduates have: the administration.

If you have your heart set on Howard, do not let me discourage you. Just know that it is a constant battle with an underfunded, slow administration for everything. They are often disorganized and their ability to communicate with the students effectively is near zero. One positive thing about HU is that companies come there to get their "diversity hires", and they have produced a great number of successful alumni, so they are not all bad. But depending on your numbers, you may want to try to go for another school in DC/MD/VA with a bit better reputation and employment situation.

Be sure that you check the school out for yourself and talk to current students, and not just ones who's job it is to gas you up. Talk to people who are going to give you an honest breakdown of the school.


This saddens me a bit, because as a AA male who has gone to largely white schools all my life, I would have loved to applied to Howard Law for a different kind of experience. However, this post makes me a bit reticent. I guess I'll apply anyhow but might have to visit and do my own research.

Just out of curiosity, how is recruiting at Howard compared to T14 schools (job-wise)?


Most of my education has been at predominantly white schools. Law school should not be about a black experience. Volunteer at an inner city school or something of that nature for an experience. Go to the law school that gives you access to the best legal education and access to the career you want. I think Howard is fine as someone looking from the outside, but it seems to me that the best lawyers, regardless of race, come from the best law schools. I'm not limiting that list to the top 14, but I would assert that if you can get into a top 30 law school go there before going to Howard for a black experience.


Yea, I realize this, but I figured if Howard has the same educational/recruitment opportunities as T30 schools, I might consider it. Plus, I would love to work in DC, so I would go here over GW or American if I don't get into Georgetown. The top black schools (Morehouse, Howard, etc.; not just the law schools) are known for offering a supportive environment for African-Americans while also having good connections with top employers, so I figured why not apply.

But it's disheartening to hear that the disorganization that's endemic in a lot of black organizations is also occurring at Howard. Totally OT, but do any similarly ranked "white" schools have this problem?

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kk19131
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Re: Howard law school

Postby kk19131 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:02 pm

I've applied to Howard. :)

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kk19131
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Re: Howard law school

Postby kk19131 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:03 pm

OGR3 wrote:
Howard's law school is on a completely independent campus. When I went to visit after I was accepted I couldn't believe how nice all the students and staff were. Keep in mind this person is discussing their undergrad experience.



You "couldn't believe" how nice the people were? What kinda crap...? :? :lol:


Anyway, why did you choose Pitt over Howard?

toddyky18
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Re: Howard law school

Postby toddyky18 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:10 pm

I'm current in the military and have been for the past 7 1/2 years, so administrative issue shouldn't be a problem with me. I current live only 25 minutes away for the campus and the possibility of being apart of a large OCI seem great to me. I notice that a lot of people say you have to be in the top 20-35 of the class, but that's just motivation to work harder. I'm just going to have to take a little trip to campus to get some info, and maybe I could share some things I learned

ksimon2007
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Re: Howard law school

Postby ksimon2007 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:12 pm

jgloster wrote:
ksimon2007 wrote:
jgloster wrote:
cowgirl_bebop wrote:Im going to cosign on everything mimi82 has said. I am a current HU undergrad student and I have absolutely no interest in their law school. I have been to visit and spoken with HU Law students, past and present, and they apparently have the same issues the undergraduates have: the administration.

If you have your heart set on Howard, do not let me discourage you. Just know that it is a constant battle with an underfunded, slow administration for everything. They are often disorganized and their ability to communicate with the students effectively is near zero. One positive thing about HU is that companies come there to get their "diversity hires", and they have produced a great number of successful alumni, so they are not all bad. But depending on your numbers, you may want to try to go for another school in DC/MD/VA with a bit better reputation and employment situation.

Be sure that you check the school out for yourself and talk to current students, and not just ones who's job it is to gas you up. Talk to people who are going to give you an honest breakdown of the school.


This saddens me a bit, because as a AA male who has gone to largely white schools all my life, I would have loved to applied to Howard Law for a different kind of experience. However, this post makes me a bit reticent. I guess I'll apply anyhow but might have to visit and do my own research.

Just out of curiosity, how is recruiting at Howard compared to T14 schools (job-wise)?


Most of my education has been at predominantly white schools. Law school should not be about a black experience. Volunteer at an inner city school or something of that nature for an experience. Go to the law school that gives you access to the best legal education and access to the career you want. I think Howard is fine as someone looking from the outside, but it seems to me that the best lawyers, regardless of race, come from the best law schools. I'm not limiting that list to the top 14, but I would assert that if you can get into a top 30 law school go there before going to Howard for a black experience.


Yea, I realize this, but I figured if Howard has the same educational/recruitment opportunities as T30 schools, I might consider it. Plus, I would love to work in DC, so I would go here over GW or American if I don't get into Georgetown. The top black schools (Morehouse, Howard, etc.; not just the law schools) are known for offering a supportive environment for African-Americans while also having good connections with top employers, so I figured why not apply.

But it's disheartening to hear that the disorganization that's endemic in a lot of black organizations is also occurring at Howard. Totally OT, but do any similarly ranked "white" schools have this problem?


Well GW and American both offer better legal educations than Howard. GW is a top 20 law school. Take the LSAT if you havent and go to the best law school. If you want to work with a top firm then you will interact in a predominantly white environment which I'm sure is not a problem for you. Stanford4me gave you all the advice you need.

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kk19131
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Re: Howard law school

Postby kk19131 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:16 pm

one thing I will say is that black students should NEVER underestimate the power of an HBCU environment and education.

Howard might not be the best law school in the world, but it offers a unique atmosphere that most other law schools (maybe even none) can provide; that's not something one should brush off so easily.

cowgirl_bebop
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Re: Howard law school

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:22 pm

kk19131 wrote:one thing I will say is that black students should NEVER underestimate the power of an HBCU environment and education.

Howard might not be the best law school in the world, but it offers a unique atmosphere that most other law schools (maybe even none) can provide; that's not something one should brush off so easily.


Atmosphere does not get you jobs or pay back student loans. And trust me, the HBCU atmosphere may be nice, but the headache Howard gives ALL of its students is nothing that should be taken lightly.

Atmosphere may be nice, but at the end of the day, people are going to law school to land the best job possible. If Howard cannot offer that, then they need to look elsewhere.




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