Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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20160810
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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby 20160810 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:55 pm

3|ink wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:
SBL wrote:
MikeNorec wrote:What about transsexual's applying to law schools? Or those who felt as if they were minorities because no one else agreed the holocaust never occurred?

What about people who get banned for trolling law school forums?

:lol:

Oh. I get it now.

In my opinion, you shouldn't write a bisexual DS. That's because I don't think an applicant should do anything to make it seem like they're coming off saying 'help me because I've had a harder life than most.' It would be an immediate turn-off for me if I were reading that.

Unclear on how "This is how I as a bisexual person can add diversity to your law school" = "Help me because I've had a harder life than most."

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby applepiecrust » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:19 pm

Wow, this thread degenerated quickly.
How does one equate the diversity one might bring by being trans to the "diversity" being a Holocaust-denier brings? Just, wow.

OP, if being bi has influenced your life in significant ways, which need not have anything to do with hardship, feel free to write about it. Otherwise, just being out on the application will probably neither hurt nor help you.

PM me if you'd like to discuss the statements/would like to read mine (pretty sure my background with LGBT work is what got me into the only reach I applied to).

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby Cupidity » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:27 pm

Are you serious

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby Cupidity » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:28 pm

Law schools love gays & bisexuals.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby 3|ink » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:06 pm

SBL wrote:
3|ink wrote:In my opinion, you shouldn't write a bisexual DS. That's because I don't think an applicant should do anything to make it seem like they're coming off saying 'help me because I've had a harder life than most.' It would be an immediate turn-off for me if I were reading that.

Unclear on how "This is how I as a bisexual person can add diversity to your law school" = "Help me because I've had a harder life than most."


Maybe it's just where I'm from (Maryland), but I just assumed there was an assumption of hardship for people who grew up knowing they were gay. My high school was merciless. Thus, anyone bringing up his/her sexuality in a diversity statement might be seen as looking for sympathy points. I suppose it may have been presumptuous of me to assume this would apply to bisexuals as well.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby happyshapy » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:50 pm

3|ink wrote:
SBL wrote:
3|ink wrote:In my opinion, you shouldn't write a bisexual DS. That's because I don't think an applicant should do anything to make it seem like they're coming off saying 'help me because I've had a harder life than most.' It would be an immediate turn-off for me if I were reading that.

Unclear on how "This is how I as a bisexual person can add diversity to your law school" = "Help me because I've had a harder life than most."


Maybe it's just where I'm from (Maryland), but I just assumed there was an assumption of hardship for people who grew up knowing they were gay. My high school was merciless. Thus, anyone bringing up his/her sexuality in a diversity statement might be seen as looking for sympathy points. I suppose it may have been presumptuous of me to assume this would apply to bisexuals as well.


So you think that diversity statements written by URMs sound like their looking for sympathy points as well? I'm not really sure I understand where your logic comes from.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby arism87 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:56 pm

happyshapy wrote:
3|ink wrote:
SBL wrote:
3|ink wrote:In my opinion, you shouldn't write a bisexual DS. That's because I don't think an applicant should do anything to make it seem like they're coming off saying 'help me because I've had a harder life than most.' It would be an immediate turn-off for me if I were reading that.

Unclear on how "This is how I as a bisexual person can add diversity to your law school" = "Help me because I've had a harder life than most."


Maybe it's just where I'm from (Maryland), but I just assumed there was an assumption of hardship for people who grew up knowing they were gay. My high school was merciless. Thus, anyone bringing up his/her sexuality in a diversity statement might be seen as looking for sympathy points. I suppose it may have been presumptuous of me to assume this would apply to bisexuals as well.


So you think that diversity statements written by URMs sound like their looking for sympathy points as well? I'm not really sure I understand where your logic comes from.


Well, sometimes, and I see the point. Many PS's are about "growth" which too often comes across as "look at the hard place I started in" or "I had some tough circumstances to overcome".. most of which earn a :roll: from me

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby Ragged » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:08 pm

Image

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby 3|ink » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:18 pm

happyshapy wrote:
3|ink wrote:
SBL wrote:
3|ink wrote:In my opinion, you shouldn't write a bisexual DS. That's because I don't think an applicant should do anything to make it seem like they're coming off saying 'help me because I've had a harder life than most.' It would be an immediate turn-off for me if I were reading that.

Unclear on how "This is how I as a bisexual person can add diversity to your law school" = "Help me because I've had a harder life than most."


Maybe it's just where I'm from (Maryland), but I just assumed there was an assumption of hardship for people who grew up knowing they were gay. My high school was merciless. Thus, anyone bringing up his/her sexuality in a diversity statement might be seen as looking for sympathy points. I suppose it may have been presumptuous of me to assume this would apply to bisexuals as well.


So you think that diversity statements written by URMs sound like their looking for sympathy points as well? I'm not really sure I understand where your logic comes from.


Except I didn't say the same applied for URMs in general. I don't see where your logic comes from. I would think that diversity statements are best suited for those who were raised under circumstances that the majority of the student body would not share. That doesn't necessarily mean they had it easier or harder than anyone else. Harder =/= Different. I don't see how this applies to homosexuals or bisexuals. I suspect that the majority of homosexuals will tell you they had a normal upbringing, but struggled with their social lives thanks to pig-headed peers. That is not sufficient material for a diversity statement in my opinion.

Feel free to take a chill pill.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby applepiecrust » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:49 pm

3|ink wrote:
Except I didn't say the same applied for URMs in general. I don't see where your logic comes from. I would think that diversity statements are best suited for those who were raised under circumstances that the majority of the student body would not share. That doesn't necessarily mean they had it easier or harder than anyone else. Harder =/= Different. I don't see how this applies to homosexuals or bisexuals. I suspect that the majority of homosexuals will tell you they had a normal upbringing, but struggled with their social lives thanks to pig-headed peers. That is not sufficient material for a diversity statement in my opinion.

Feel free to take a chill pill.


I don't think it's so much raised in different circumstances as the ability to bring a different viewpoint to the table (or even, being raised in different circumstances versus growing up in different circumstances).

The diversity you bring is not so much about who you parents are/were, but about who you are. Someone with disabilities was also probably raised in "normal" circumstances, but would have had a very different experience growing up than able-bodied peers or even siblings. They would still bring diversity to the group (and no disabilities also need not mean hardships; it's just different).

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby James Bond » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:54 pm

Ok so this is NOT a trolling attempt, but I'm pretty sure 100% of my gay friends (and yes that's more than one haha but they say this independently of each other) SWEAR that bisexuality doesn't exist. :? The claim bisexual people are either straight and attention whores or gay and too afraid to come out completely.

Op, have you encountered any of this? And everyone else, is this concept wide spread? If so, it might hold back the OP's statement.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby NZA » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:00 pm

James Bond wrote:Ok so this is NOT a trolling attempt, but I'm pretty sure 100% of my gay friends (and yes that's more than one haha but they say this independently of each other) SWEAR that bisexuality doesn't exist. :? The claim bisexual people are either straight and attention whores or gay and too afraid to come out completely.

Op, have you encountered any of this? And everyone else, is this concept wide spread? If so, it might hold back the OP's statement.


...erm, well, I know at least one guy who is definitely bisexual?

I think the argument that you are either/or gay/straight is convenient for people unused to dealing with ambiguity (this is not a reference to you, Mr. Bond). However, the fact that we have people who don't even fit in within one classification of gender or sex seems to indicate that certain individuals may feel attracted to members of any gender. To put it another way, sexual preference is less like the magnetic poles and more like the spectrum of visible light.

But, yes, I have encountered the concept you outlined, but no, I don't think it's taken extraordinarily seriously. If I were the OP, I'd only write the DS if he/she felt like his/her sexual orientation has been the source of some significant kind of personal hardship.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby James Bond » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:03 pm

NZA wrote:
James Bond wrote:Ok so this is NOT a trolling attempt, but I'm pretty sure 100% of my gay friends (and yes that's more than one haha but they say this independently of each other) SWEAR that bisexuality doesn't exist. :? The claim bisexual people are either straight and attention whores or gay and too afraid to come out completely.

Op, have you encountered any of this? And everyone else, is this concept wide spread? If so, it might hold back the OP's statement.


...erm, well, I know at least one guy who is definitely bisexual?

I think the argument that you are either/or gay/straight is convenient for people unused to dealing with ambiguity (this is not a reference to you, Mr. Bond). However, the fact that we have people who don't even fit in within one classification of gender or sex seems to indicate that certain individuals may feel attracted to members of any gender. To put it another way, sexual preference is less like the magnetic poles and more like the spectrum of visible light.

But, yes, I have encountered the concept you outlined, but no, I don't think it's taken extraordinarily seriously. If I were the OP, I'd only write the DS if he/she felt like his/her sexual orientation has been the source of some significant kind of personal hardship.


Ok, I was just wondering. I get the "spectrum" argument and think it makes sense. I was just surprised to see that kind of resentment from the gay community (at least where I am) against bisexuals. Then again, black people where I am hate and actively discriminate against hispanics too :?

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:05 pm

LGBT is not under-represented. Not a game-changer and as good PS fodder as anything else.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby arism87 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:05 pm

NZA wrote:...erm, well, I know at least one guy who is definitely bisexual?

I think the argument that you are either/or gay/straight is convenient for people unused to dealing with ambiguity (this is not a reference to you, Mr. Bond). However, the fact that we have people who don't even fit in within one classification of gender or sex seems to indicate that certain individuals may feel attracted to members of any gender. To put it another way, sexual preference is less like the magnetic poles and more like the spectrum of visible light.

But, yes, I have encountered the concept you outlined, but no, I don't think it's taken extraordinarily seriously. If I were the OP, I'd only write the DS if he/she felt like his/her sexual orientation has been the source of some significant kind of personal hardship.


This is exactly what the earlier poster was talking about (I think). If I were an adcomm, I'd get SO SICK of reading people's sob stories. You can bring diversity and strength to the table without talking about every hurdle you ever jumped.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby NZA » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:10 pm

James Bond wrote:Ok, I was just wondering. I get the "spectrum" argument and think it makes sense. I was just surprised to see that kind of resentment from the gay community (at least where I am) against bisexuals. Then again, black people where I am hate and actively discriminate against hispanics too :?


Word...you would think that people who have experienced the difficulties that come along with an queer lifestyle (I think that's the technical term, now?) would be sympathetic to others who are also not "hetero-normative," or whatever. Like, you expect people to empathize with others in similar situations, but I guess that's not the case.

Same thing with race...you would think that members of a particular race suffering from institutional racism would acknowledge parallel struggles of another minority race, but I guess that's too much of an expectation?

To be fair, I think part of the reason I think all this is that I'm a straight, pretty much white male: anything other than that (aside from straight white females, maybe...) is just sort of conveniently labeled "Other," so I don't really have to make distinctions within that broad category.

And I'm not saying that's a good thing, but, I think that's what goes on subconsciously in me. I really have to take time and care to respect and acknowledge that "everyone else who is different from me" are not different in the same way.

You know? So maybe that's what's going on with these minority (sexual, racial, and otherwise) populations who are unexpectedly acting in the same ways to other minorities as the majority?

EDIT: This is way the fuck off topic.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby James Bond » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:14 pm

NZA wrote:
James Bond wrote:Ok, I was just wondering. I get the "spectrum" argument and think it makes sense. I was just surprised to see that kind of resentment from the gay community (at least where I am) against bisexuals. Then again, black people where I am hate and actively discriminate against hispanics too :?


Word...you would think that people who have experienced the difficulties that come along with an queer lifestyle (I think that's the technical term, now?) would be sympathetic to others who are also not "hetero-normative," or whatever. Like, you expect people to empathize with others in similar situations, but I guess that's not the case.

Same thing with race...you would think that members of a particular race suffering from institutional racism would acknowledge parallel struggles of another minority race, but I guess that's too much of an expectation?

To be fair, I think part of the reason I think all this is that I'm a straight, pretty much white male: anything other than that (aside from straight white females, maybe...) is just sort of conveniently labeled "Other," so I don't really have to make distinctions within that broad category.

And I'm not saying that's a good thing, but, I think that's what goes on subconsciously in me. I really have to take time and care to respect and acknowledge that "everyone else who is different from me" are not different in the same way.

You know? So maybe that's what's going on with these minority (sexual, racial, and otherwise) populations who are unexpectedly acting in the same ways to other minorities as the majority?

EDIT: This is way the fuck off topic.


Ya I fully admit I don't completely "get it" either (since the only thing holding me back from being 100% in the majority is the fact that I'm not protestant or christian) but it still surprises me to see racism among minority groups. I suppose they would just "understand" or "know better," but maybe that's too idealist. :?

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby applepiecrust » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:16 pm

NZA wrote:
James Bond wrote:Ok, I was just wondering. I get the "spectrum" argument and think it makes sense. I was just surprised to see that kind of resentment from the gay community (at least where I am) against bisexuals. Then again, black people where I am hate and actively discriminate against hispanics too :?


Word...you would think that people who have experienced the difficulties that come along with an queer lifestyle (I think that's the technical term, now?) would be sympathetic to others who are also not "hetero-normative," or whatever. Like, you expect people to empathize with others in similar situations, but I guess that's not the case.

Same thing with race...you would think that members of a particular race suffering from institutional racism would acknowledge parallel struggles of another minority race, but I guess that's too much of an expectation?

To be fair, I think part of the reason I think all this is that I'm a straight, pretty much white male: anything other than that (aside from straight white females, maybe...) is just sort of conveniently labeled "Other," so I don't really have to make distinctions within that broad category.

And I'm not saying that's a good thing, but, I think that's what goes on subconsciously in me. I really have to take time and care to respect and acknowledge that "everyone else who is different from me" are not different in the same way.

You know? So maybe that's what's going on with these minority (sexual, racial, and otherwise) populations who are unexpectedly acting in the same ways to other minorities as the majority?

EDIT: This is way the fuck off topic.


Still so off-topic, but I think you're on to something here, NZA. There is just a lot of "you're worse than we are" between different minority groups under the same broad categorical umbrella. So there are gay, lesbian, bi people who look down on trans people, gay and lesbian people who look down on bi people, white LGBT people who are prejudiced against LGBT people of color, LGBT people of color who all hate white LGBT people, and all kinds of other unfortunate dynamics :(

That said, I think bisexuality and other forms of not-quite-gay, not-quite-straight spectrum sexualities can lend people interesting perspectives, particularly in being able to look at the world past black-and-white dichotomies (I don't know if that's true for you, OP?).

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby happyshapy » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:06 am

happyshapy wrote:
3|ink wrote:
SBL wrote:
3|ink wrote:
Maybe it's just where I'm from (Maryland), but I just assumed there was an assumption of hardship for people who grew up knowing they were gay. My high school was merciless. Thus, anyone bringing up his/her sexuality in a diversity statement might be seen as looking for sympathy points. I suppose it may have been presumptuous of me to assume this would apply to bisexuals as well.


So you think that diversity statements written by URMs sound like their looking for sympathy points as well? I'm not really sure I understand where your logic comes from.


Except I didn't say the same applied for URMs in general. I don't see where your logic comes from. I would think that diversity statements are best suited for those who were raised under circumstances that the majority of the student body would not share. That doesn't necessarily mean they had it easier or harder than anyone else. Harder =/= Different. I don't see how this applies to homosexuals or bisexuals. I suspect that the majority of homosexuals will tell you they had a normal upbringing, but struggled with their social lives thanks to pig-headed peers. That is not sufficient material for a diversity statement in my opinion.

Feel free to take a chill pill.


Your explanation still doesn't make sense. So an AA who grew up in a middle class town with a "normal" upbringing doesn't have sufficient enough material to write a diversity statement?

I didn't say anything in my posts that wasn't "chill"

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby 3|ink » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:47 am

happyshapy wrote:Your explanation still doesn't make sense. So an AA who grew up in a middle class town with a "normal" upbringing doesn't have sufficient enough material to write a diversity statement?

I didn't say anything in my posts that wasn't "chill"


A homosexual would certainly have a unique perspective. However, I think that schools are looking for a bit more than that. Imagine if every white person who thought he/she had a very distinct political outlook were to submit a diversity statement. How many of them would benefit from this submission? Perhaps perspective does help, but I think a distinctive heritage is crucial.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby applepiecrust » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:54 am

3|ink wrote:
happyshapy wrote:Your explanation still doesn't make sense. So an AA who grew up in a middle class town with a "normal" upbringing doesn't have sufficient enough material to write a diversity statement?

I didn't say anything in my posts that wasn't "chill"


A homosexual would certainly have a unique perspective. However, I think that schools are looking for a bit more than that. Imagine if every white person who thought he/she had a very distinct political outlook were to submit a diversity statement. How many of them would benefit from this submission? Perhaps perspective does help, but I think a distinctive heritage is crucial.


I really don't think it's about heritage, 3|ink. Would you disagree that a person with disabilities would have a unique perspective to offer to a law school? How about socioeconomic status as a form of diversity?

Diversity statements are really not just meant for ethnic and/or racial minorities. if you have an interesting story to share, that shows how you contribute to the diversity, go ahead and share it.

TBH, I think the key difference between political/religious beliefs vs. race/ethnicity/ability/sexuality etc. is that the former are choices (and they might be out-of-the-box, unique choices) whereas the latter are innate.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby 12262010 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:07 am

3|ink wrote:
happyshapy wrote:Your explanation still doesn't make sense. So an AA who grew up in a middle class town with a "normal" upbringing doesn't have sufficient enough material to write a diversity statement?

I didn't say anything in my posts that wasn't "chill"


A homosexual would certainly have a unique perspective. However, I think that schools are looking for a bit more than that. Imagine if every white person who thought he/she had a very distinct political outlook were to submit a diversity statement. How many of them would benefit from this submission? Perhaps perspective does help, but I think a distinctive heritage is crucial.


This is completely and utterly wrong.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby iamcutdacheck » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:09 am

Kretzy wrote:Sexuality helps for a PS/soft factor when you tie it into an experience that shapes you. It's not something that helps in a vacuum, nor is it something that helps when you portray it as a cliche.

My entire PS was based off my sexuality, and I did quite well. I know other GLBT folks who had better numbers and didn't get into what folks would consider reaches. I think that some people think GLBT status will carry them when it really provides a boost similar to an interesting life story; it simply, in general, makes that interesting life story more likely.

Focus on ways your bisexuality has intrinsically affected you, or your opportunities, or your outlook, if you'd like it to provide a tangible benefit. I think a particularly good angle that is under-utilized is the ways in which bisexuals (sadly) are ostracized within the GLBT community. It's something that's under-studied, but also remains implicitly under-discussed amongst gay and straight people alike.

Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk about weaving GLBT issues into your PS (or treating them as the focal point of your statement). I'd be happy to help a bit, if I can!


Are you saying open bi-sexual men and women are a minority withing the GLBT community. Interesting

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby 3|ink » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:28 pm

booyakasha wrote:
3|ink wrote:
happyshapy wrote:Your explanation still doesn't make sense. So an AA who grew up in a middle class town with a "normal" upbringing doesn't have sufficient enough material to write a diversity statement?

I didn't say anything in my posts that wasn't "chill"


A homosexual would certainly have a unique perspective. However, I think that schools are looking for a bit more than that. Imagine if every white person who thought he/she had a very distinct political outlook were to submit a diversity statement. How many of them would benefit from this submission? Perhaps perspective does help, but I think a distinctive heritage is crucial.


This is completely and utterly wrong.


Feel free to elaborate if you're capable.

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Re: Bisexual? Or more like Bi-Lame?

Postby 3|ink » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:39 pm

applepiecrust wrote:I really don't think it's about heritage, 3|ink. Would you disagree that a person with disabilities would have a unique perspective to offer to a law school? How about socioeconomic status as a form of diversity?


While these would certainly be unique perspectives, can you say they are underrepresented? Perhaps they would be different from the majority of the student body, but there's a significant chance that the average student was exposed to someone like this before law school.

applepiecrust wrote:Diversity statements are really not just meant for ethnic and/or racial minorities. if you have an interesting story to share, that shows how you contribute to the diversity, go ahead and share it.


Be mindful that I'm not saying that a gay person shouldn't be allowed to submit a diversity statement. I'm saying that he/she shouldn't submit one because it wouldn't be helpful. In fact, it might be harmful for an applicant to propose that his/her sexuality is rare enough to make a valuable contribution to diversity.

applepiecrust wrote:TBH, I think the key difference between political/religious beliefs vs. race/ethnicity/ability/sexuality etc. is that the former are choices (and they might be out-of-the-box, unique choices) whereas the latter are innate.


But that is highly debatable with sexuality. I think that it is impossible to conclude that sexual preference is entirely a product of nature over nurture or the other way around.




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