How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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sophia.olive
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby sophia.olive » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:37 pm

we are talking about the whole world not your personal pity party.

cool story though

005618502
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 005618502 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:39 pm

sophia.olive wrote:we are talking about the whole world not your personal pity party.

cool story though


The whole world? How about we talk about the United States. Where if you are black/mexican/NA and try hard you can get into schools with numbers that are undeserving, then when hiring comes around you get another HUGE boost.

Man sounds like it must be pretty rough.

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sophia.olive
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby sophia.olive » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:39 pm

assumption.

read a history book and take a statistics class

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JazzOne
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:40 pm

RJ127 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
RJ127 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:I think the whole system would be more fair if everyone lied about race.


Please explain this.

I just think it's funny that something as ill-defined as "race" has such a huge impact on admissions. My maternal grandparents were from Mexico; their ancestors immigrated to Mexico from Germany during the war era. My paternal grandfather was Polish, and my paternal grandmother was French. I have no fucking idea what race I am. I'm just a dude from Texas. I don't even speak Spanish, but Hispanic is probably the best description of my ethnicity and cultural heritage. What a joke.


That's where you are mistaken. Please do not confuse race with under represented minority. Race is a social construct which cannot be proved with any sort of accuracy. Under represented minority status can be easily proved with empirical data. The two are not synonymous with each other.

Please enlighten me as to how you can prove I'm an underrepresented minority. My ancestry is all over the fucking place. I completely disagree with your assertion here. Ethnicity is no easier to define than race.

Anon NA
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Anon NA » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:41 pm

sophia.olive wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:if you lie, they will probably catch you.
(either C&F or the school)
If they catch you they can take away your law degree. You will never become a lawyer and now you are 100+thousand in debt.


This is true, especially if you are white claiming black/mexican.

Now from what ive heard ANYONE can claim Native American and say they are not affiliated with a tribe and there is no way to prove anything

With the affiliation comes most the boost


But the problem is that schools aren't even clear about what they mean about affiliation. I called one of HYS and asked explicitly, "I am part (fill in tribe name) and part white. I have checked both the white and NA boxes. I am not an enrolled member of my tribe. Should I go ahead and write the tribe name in the affiliation blank?" Answer: yes. So that is what I have been doing. I figure I am self identifying and am being completely honest. I figure the schools that want to see enrollment cards and numbers will ask.

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Ratchet Jackson
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ratchet Jackson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:42 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:we are talking about the whole world not your personal pity party.

cool story though


The whole world? How about we talk about the United States. Where if you are black/mexican/NA and try hard you can get into schools with numbers that are undeserving, then when hiring comes around you get another HUGE boost.

Man sounds like it must be pretty rough.



How many times has someone refused to serve you because you were white? How many times has someone refused to talk to you because you were white? How many professional opportunities have you missed out on because you were white? Ever had somebody say you couldn't date their daughter because you were white?

I've faced each of these situations on multiple occasions because of the color of my skin. Trust me. You will be fine if you do not attend HYS. I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever. It's not easier being black.

005618502
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 005618502 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:43 pm

sophia.olive wrote:assumption.

read a history book and take a statistics class


Ive done both, thanks though. As you can see with my profile, I've done it pretty damn well.

Or do you mean read a history book and learn about URM's and what they went through generations ago? which still seems to be holding them back (wrong). People think they deserve so much for only the color of their skin which is rediculous. What should be considered is where you grew up, how affluent is your family, what is your socioeconomic status? those are the things that really matter. I know many people who have parents with professional careers making 6 figures who are URM getting a huge boost over white people who have unemployed parents living off welfare with no education... How is this fair?

005618502
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 005618502 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:47 pm

RJ127 wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:we are talking about the whole world not your personal pity party.

cool story though


The whole world? How about we talk about the United States. Where if you are black/mexican/NA and try hard you can get into schools with numbers that are undeserving, then when hiring comes around you get another HUGE boost.

Man sounds like it must be pretty rough.



How many times has someone refused to serve you because you were white? How many times has someone refused to talk to you because you were white? How many professional opportunities have you missed out on because you were white? Ever had somebody say you couldn't date their daughter because you were white?

I've faced each of these situations on multiple occasions because of the color of my skin. Trust me. You will be fine if you do not attend HYS. I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever. It's not easier being black.


WOWWW. who didnt serve you because you were black? Lawsuit. Who refused to talk to you because you were black? Kick their ass, they are fucking ignorant. What professional opportunities did you miss? URM's get a huge boost with jobs which means you were HIGHLY unqualified.

Jobs look specifically to hire black and NA people, so its a huge boost. If it doesnt help you that means you have done something wrong

Chants
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Chants » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:47 pm

HowdyYall wrote:
dingoesatmybaby wrote:Or rather if race wasn't a factor at all. And I am black, but I would hope that my 3.8 GPA and my 166 LSAT score are what get me into a university, rather than my cultural background.

I just hate that basically anyone can say they are Black, Hispanic etc and get away with it. Because there really is no concrete way to prove this. The only thing that should matter is Native American, and that you CAN prove.


There was an article on here about a year ago about some guy getting in trouble by his firm for lying about his race. It was like a huge story, couldnt find it in search though.



This guy ended up being fine. He claimed to have reported his "ethnicity" rather than his race since the app question was ambiguous. Then argued ethnicity is subjective.

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BrownBears09
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby BrownBears09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:48 pm

Oh an AA thread? Original.

IBTL.

thisguy456
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby thisguy456 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:50 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
You're retarded, you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea where i grew up, how much money my family made.

I was one of the VERY few white people in my HS for some time. So dont act like you know what you are talking about, many of my best friends are black and there is no difference between their lives and mine, besides with the same numbers they are getting into much better schools.

P.S you are incredibly stupid

005618502
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 005618502 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:51 pm

Anon NA wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:if you lie, they will probably catch you.
(either C&F or the school)
If they catch you they can take away your law degree. You will never become a lawyer and now you are 100+thousand in debt.


This is true, especially if you are white claiming black/mexican.

Now from what ive heard ANYONE can claim Native American and say they are not affiliated with a tribe and there is no way to prove anything

With the affiliation comes most the boost


But the problem is that schools aren't even clear about what they mean about affiliation. I called one of HYS and asked explicitly, "I am part (fill in tribe name) and part white. I have checked both the white and NA boxes. I am not an enrolled member of my tribe. Should I go ahead and write the tribe name in the affiliation blank?" Answer: yes. So that is what I have been doing. I figure I am self identifying and am being completely honest. I figure the schools that want to see enrollment cards and numbers will ask.


Schools will rarely ask to see, and i know HYS do not, nor will they ever.
You could claim it, and get away with it no problem. But you are not actually affiliated with a tribe unless you are an enrolled member. I have looked into this, as my GGGGrandfather was enrolled. My grandfather and his dad didnt enroll because at the time it was considered "half-blood." so i was unable to claim it as i wanted to stay honest with my applications. If my grandfather's and theirs would have claimed it, then i would be enrolled as well and it would have had no effect on my life besides me gettign into much better schools.

Fact is, you are not affiliated with a tribe. If you were you would be enrolled. If you are caught claiming affliliation without being on the DAWES rolls then you can get in serious trouble
Last edited by 005618502 on Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2011Law
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 2011Law » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:51 pm

lol, was there ever a thread that dealt with race that didn't devolve to this? (I take partial responsibility for making a stupid joke)

RJ127 wrote:I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever.


You're not Rubin Carter bro, and this is not the 60s.

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Gotti
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Gotti » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:53 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
RJ127 wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:we are talking about the whole world not your personal pity party.

cool story though


The whole world? How about we talk about the United States. Where if you are black/mexican/NA and try hard you can get into schools with numbers that are undeserving, then when hiring comes around you get another HUGE boost.

Man sounds like it must be pretty rough.



How many times has someone refused to serve you because you were white? How many times has someone refused to talk to you because you were white? How many professional opportunities have you missed out on because you were white? Ever had somebody say you couldn't date their daughter because you were white?

I've faced each of these situations on multiple occasions because of the color of my skin. Trust me. You will be fine if you do not attend HYS. I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever. It's not easier being black.


WOWWW. who didnt serve you because you were black? Lawsuit. Who refused to talk to you because you were black? Kick their ass, they are fucking ignorant. What professional opportunities did you miss? URM's get a huge boost with jobs which means you were HIGHLY unqualified.

Jobs look specifically to hire black and NA people, so its a huge boost. If it doesnt help you that means you have done something wrong



okay try living in orange county, CA as a black male. my boyfriend of 4 years is black, and my parents refuse to accept it. any other race would've been okay. yeah my parents can be seen as racist because of this, but I can't help that so please don't go there. and no, in orange county, if you are black, you don't get a huge boost because you are a URM. you don't get the job as a front desk receptionist with 2 degrees from UCLA because the firm doesn't want a black person to be the first person your all-white clients see when they walk into a swanky law office.

RPK34
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby RPK34 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:54 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOmFLF51qRg

Seriously, another URM/racism debate?
Last edited by RPK34 on Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ratchet Jackson
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ratchet Jackson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:54 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
RJ127 wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:we are talking about the whole world not your personal pity party.

cool story though


The whole world? How about we talk about the United States. Where if you are black/mexican/NA and try hard you can get into schools with numbers that are undeserving, then when hiring comes around you get another HUGE boost.

Man sounds like it must be pretty rough.



How many times has someone refused to serve you because you were white? How many times has someone refused to talk to you because you were white? How many professional opportunities have you missed out on because you were white? Ever had somebody say you couldn't date their daughter because you were white?

I've faced each of these situations on multiple occasions because of the color of my skin. Trust me. You will be fine if you do not attend HYS. I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever. It's not easier being black.


WOWWW. who didnt serve you because you were black? Lawsuit. Who refused to talk to you because you were black? Kick their ass, they are fucking ignorant. What professional opportunities did you miss? URM's get a huge boost with jobs which means you were HIGHLY unqualified.

Jobs look specifically to hire black and NA people, so its a huge boost. If it doesnt help you that means you have done something wrong


Your suggestion of action after each act of racism does not discount the fact that it happened in the first place. I will have to live with it. So the next time you are in an elevator and a lady moves to the opposite corner clutching her purse, thank God that you were born the way you were. And please for the future, try to be a little more respectful to others on the forum. I have no issues with you, but others (as well as myself) will get offended in the future if you continue to classify race as a factor that does not hinder social progress/opportunity.

Anon NA
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Anon NA » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:55 pm

This is true, especially if you are white claiming black/mexican.

Now from what ive heard ANYONE can claim Native American and say they are not affiliated with a tribe and there is no way to prove anything[/quote]
With the affiliation comes most the boost[/quote]

But the problem is that schools aren't even clear about what they mean about affiliation. I called one of HYS and asked explicitly, "I am part (fill in tribe name) and part white. I have checked both the white and NA boxes. I am not an enrolled member of my tribe. Should I go ahead and write the tribe name in the affiliation blank?" Answer: yes. So that is what I have been doing. I figure I am self identifying and am being completely honest. I figure the schools that want to see enrollment cards and numbers will ask.[/quote]

Schools will rarely ask to see, and i know HYS do not, nor will they ever.
You could claim it, and get away with it no problem. But you are not actually affiliated with a tribe unless you are an enrolled member. I have looked into this, as my GGGGrandfather was enrolled. My grandfather and his dad didnt enroll because at the time it was considered "half-blood." so i was unable to claim it as i wanted to stay honest with my applications. If my grandfather's and theirs would have claimed it, then i would be enrolled as well and it would have had no effect on my life besides me gettign into much better schools.

Fact is, you are not affiliated with a tribe. If you were you would be enrolled. If you are caught claiming affliliation without being on the DAWES rolls then you can get in serious trouble[/quote]


Well, you speak with a lot of authority about this, but what is a person to do when he/she contacts the admissions office in question and is told something different?

Chants
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Chants » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:55 pm

Countdown till thread is locked...

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Ratchet Jackson
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ratchet Jackson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:56 pm

2011Law wrote:lol, was there ever a thread that dealt with race that didn't devolve to this? (I take partial responsibility for making a stupid joke)

RJ127 wrote:I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever.


You're not Rubin Carter bro, and this is not the 60s.


Yeah, you're right. I forgot to change my calendar. It's 2010 and racism/prejudice doesn't exist anymore. My bad.

thisguy456
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby thisguy456 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:57 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:Schools will rarely ask to see, and i know HYS do not, nor will they ever.
You could claim it, and get away with it no problem. But you are not actually affiliated with a tribe unless you are an enrolled member. I have looked into this, as my GGGGrandfather was enrolled. My grandfather and his dad didnt enroll because at the time it was considered "half-blood." so i was unable to claim it as i wanted to stay honest with my applications. If my grandfather's and theirs would have claimed it, then i would be enrolled as well and it would have had no effect on my life besides me gettign into much better schools.

Fact is, you are not affiliated with a tribe. If you were you would be enrolled. If you are caught claiming affliliation without being on the DAWES rolls then you can get in serious trouble


For as against the whole idea as you seem to be, it's nice that you've looked into trying to claim NA status.

2011Law
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 2011Law » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:00 pm

RJ127 wrote:
2011Law wrote:lol, was there ever a thread that dealt with race that didn't devolve to this? (I take partial responsibility for making a stupid joke)

RJ127 wrote:I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever.


You're not Rubin Carter bro, and this is not the 60s.


Yeah, you're right. I forgot to change my calendar. It's 2010 and racism/prejudice doesn't exist anymore. My bad.


no no no, you misread what I said. I was merely pointing out that you are not in fact Rubin Carter (decent movie if you're bored), and that it is not in fact the 1960s. Its not like I was implying that you were somehow somewhat over-exaggerating the absolute Doom/Hell on Earth that is the life of every black person.

Do you see what I did there?

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Ratchet Jackson
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ratchet Jackson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:01 pm

I don't want this thread to continue further in the wrong direction. Just a simple suggestion to everybody here, just be respectful of others. If someone says they had a hard time growing up, accept it or do not comment. To challenge someone's daily issues that you know nothing about is unfair and unwarranted. We all have law school as an ultimate goal. Let's be more supportive of each other reaching that goal.

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Ginj
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ginj » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:01 pm

RJ127 wrote:
2011Law wrote:lol, was there ever a thread that dealt with race that didn't devolve to this? (I take partial responsibility for making a stupid joke)

RJ127 wrote:I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever.


You're not Rubin Carter bro, and this is not the 60s.


Yeah, you're right. I forgot to change my calendar. It's 2010 and racism/prejudice doesn't exist anymore. My bad.


Kitteh!

--ImageRemoved--

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Ratchet Jackson
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ratchet Jackson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:02 pm

2011Law wrote:
RJ127 wrote:
2011Law wrote:lol, was there ever a thread that dealt with race that didn't devolve to this? (I take partial responsibility for making a stupid joke)

RJ127 wrote:I'm going to have to face the societal plights of being black forever.


You're not Rubin Carter bro, and this is not the 60s.


Yeah, you're right. I forgot to change my calendar. It's 2010 and racism/prejudice doesn't exist anymore. My bad.


no no no, you misread what I said. I was merely pointing out that you are not in fact Rubin Carter (decent movie if you're bored), and that it is not in fact the 1960s. Its not like I was implying that you were somehow somewhat over-exaggerating the absolute Doom/Hell on Earth that is the life of every black person.

Do you see what I did there?


Yes. Definitely misinterpreted that one, I apologize sincerely.

005618502
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 005618502 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:03 pm

okay try living in orange county, CA as a black male. my boyfriend of 4 years is black, and my parents refuse to accept it. any other race would've been okay. yeah my parents can be seen as racist because of this, but I can't help that so please don't go there. and no, in orange county, if you are black, you don't get a huge boost because you are a URM. you don't get the job as a front desk receptionist with 2 degrees from UCLA because the firm doesn't want a black person to be the first person your all-white clients see when they walk into a swanky law office.


They wouldnt hire a white person with 2 degrees from UCLA as a receptionist because you are over qualified and they know that you will not stay, it is only something small till you get a real job.

And I did live in OC for my last 2 years of High School, lived in Lake forest. (after 2 years of living basically on the border of alabama and florida lol)

And I NEVER saw or heard of ANYONE being racist, sounds like your parents are a huge problem to society




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