How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
Anon NA
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Anon NA » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 pm

The discussion has moved so far away from its title--and some people are actually interested in this topic: how do law schools know your race? Especially if even you are a little uneasy defining yourself in a simplistic manner.

For some people the question of race is not simply about blood percentages or skin color. A lot of people can go their whole lives without having to define "what" they are (racially, that is), then when applying to educational institutions they are asked to pick from narrowly and (paradoxically) ambiguously defined races.

This is not a simple topic, but I guess more people are interested in talking about AA and people who try to lie . . .

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Ratchet Jackson
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ratchet Jackson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:04 pm

The discussion is (mostly) healthy here. If anything, hopefully a few people have learned something and will approach people with a little more caution/respect. Yes, URMs will get offended when they're accomplishments are discounted because of the "AA boost". It's not a good idea to antagonize or provoke anybody. Get used to it now, in law school and in life you will be forced to interact with people from all walks of life. Please don't think it's okay to openly dismiss a fellow classmate/co-worker because you believe they received an "unfair" advantage be it racial/gender/socioeconomic etc. Just be the best person YOU can be and you will run into far fewer problems. Try to treat people with as much respect as possible. And that goes for everyone on here.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:04 pm

Where do all the "racists" live and work?

"The 'other guy' is the racist" is a common argument, yet we have institutional racism that can be tracked and found all across this country. For such a small group they sure perpetuate a large amount of racism in our institutions - health care, judicial system, educational systems, housing market, human resource department after human resource department, and so on and so forth.

When no one can identify "the other guy that's the real racist," but his work keeps showing up in communities and institutions that aren't tied to a particular geographic region, maybe some folks should stop looking for "the other guy" and should start looking in the...

d34d9823
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:05 pm

Anon NA wrote:The discussion has moved so far away from its title--and some people are actually interested in this topic: how do law schools know your race? Especially if even you are a little uneasy defining yourself in a simplistic manner.

For some people the question of race is not simply about blood percentages or skin color. A lot of people can go their whole lives without having to define "what" they are (racially, that is), then when applying to educational institutions they are asked to pick from narrowly and (paradoxically) ambiguously defined races.

This is not a simple topic, but I guess more people are interested in talking about AA and people who try to lie . . .

That's why you can check multiple boxes. Check all that apply IMO. If it's complicated, write a DS.

d34d9823
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:07 pm

RJ127 wrote:Yes, URMs will get offended when they're accomplishments are discounted because of the "AA boost".

Am I allowed to be offended when my accomplishments are discounted BY the URM boost? Or does this only cut one way?

And not to be a grammar nazi, but *their.

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20121109
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 20121109 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:08 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:Where do all the "racists" live and work?

"The 'other guy' is the racist" is a common argument, yet we have institutional racism that can be tracked and found all across this country. For such a small group they sure perpetuate a large amount of racism in our institutions - health care, judicial system, educational systems, housing market, human resource department after human resource department, and so on and so forth.

When no one can identify "the other guy that's the real racist," but his work keeps showing up in communities and institutions that aren't tied to a particular geographic region, maybe some folks should stop looking for "the other guy" and should start looking in the...


ooooooohhhh....I got this one!

....mirror?

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sophia.olive
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby sophia.olive » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:11 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:Where do all the "racists" live and work?

"The 'other guy' is the racist" is a common argument, yet we have institutional racism that can be tracked and found all across this country. For such a small group they sure perpetuate a large amount of racism in our institutions - health care, judicial system, educational systems, housing market, human resource department after human resource department, and so on and so forth.

When no one can identify "the other guy that's the real racist," but his work keeps showing up in communities and institutions that aren't tied to a particular geographic region, maybe some folks should stop looking for "the other guy" and should start looking in the...


ooooooohhhh....I got this one!

....mirror?


wow,wow stop with the riddles, this topic is complicated enough. :shock:

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Ratchet Jackson
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Ratchet Jackson » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:12 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
RJ127 wrote:Yes, URMs will get offended when they're accomplishments are discounted because of the "AA boost".

Am I allowed to be offended when my accomplishments are discounted BY the URM boost? Or does this only cut one way?

And not to be a grammar nazi, but *their.


Your accomplishments are not discounted by the URM boost. Failed opportunities are often a failure to meet standards. While your accomplishments are probably impressive, if you get a ding from HYS then you should take no offense. You knew what you had to do in order to procure the necessary credentials for your goals, if you fell short, that seems like a self-issue. Sorry if that sounds harsh, not my intention.

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JazzOne
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:13 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
RJ127 wrote:Yes, URMs will get offended when they're accomplishments are discounted because of the "AA boost".

Am I allowed to be offended when my accomplishments are discounted BY the URM boost? Or does this only cut one way?

And not to be a grammar nazi, but *their.

You can be offended, but the minorities didn't cause this. The schools establish their own policies, and the law schools have decided that diversity is more important than your particular accomplishments. Rail at the schools, if you will, but it seems rather pointless. Why not just go where ever you get in and try to make some friends? Expand your horizons? That sort of thing?
Last edited by JazzOne on Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LLB2JD
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby LLB2JD » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:14 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:Where do all the "racists" live and work?

"The 'other guy' is the racist" is a common argument, yet we have institutional racism that can be tracked and found all across this country. For such a small group they sure perpetuate a large amount of racism in our institutions - health care, judicial system, educational systems, housing market, human resource department after human resource department, and so on and so forth.

When no one can identify "the other guy that's the real racist," but his work keeps showing up in communities and institutions that aren't tied to a particular geographic region, maybe some folks should stop looking for "the other guy" and should start looking in the...


ooooooohhhh....I got this one!

....mirror?



:lol:

Anon NA
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby Anon NA » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:15 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
Anon NA wrote:The discussion has moved so far away from its title--and some people are actually interested in this topic: how do law schools know your race? Especially if even you are a little uneasy defining yourself in a simplistic manner.

For some people the question of race is not simply about blood percentages or skin color. A lot of people can go their whole lives without having to define "what" they are (racially, that is), then when applying to educational institutions they are asked to pick from narrowly and (paradoxically) ambiguously defined races.

This is not a simple topic, but I guess more people are interested in talking about AA and people who try to lie . . .

That's why you can check multiple boxes. Check all that apply IMO. If it's complicated, write a DS.


That sounds simple, but some schools won't even accept a diversity statement; furthermore, most schools who ask for a diversity statement ask you to talk about the diversity you will bring to their school, they do NOT ask you to explain exactly how you see yourself as a multiracial person and to defend that perception. Given that every word counts in the application writing process and that the general consensus on TLS is that following the directions of the application is of the utmost importance, explaining who you are (racially) is not necessarily an easy thing to do.

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sophia.olive
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby sophia.olive » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:15 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:Seeing as it hasn't been locked...

Discuss:

Affirmative action fosters racism because it causes resentment in previously non-racist ORMs who are disadvantaged by it.

lol... no it only does this to people who were already unable to put themselves in other peoples shoes
Image
the establishment is making poor whites and blacks fight each other so they dont realize who the real enemy is. lol
im only half joking, ive been reading a lot of howard zinn

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LAWLAW09
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:16 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
RJ127 wrote:Yes, URMs will get offended when they're accomplishments are discounted because of the "AA boost".

Am I allowed to be offended when my accomplishments are discounted BY the URM boost? Or does this only cut one way?

And not to be a grammar nazi, but *their.



Not to be a reality nazi, but you're less qualified than you think to be able to claim they're "your" accomplishments.


(ETA: GAIA, you are a winner!)
Last edited by LAWLAW09 on Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

d34d9823
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:16 pm

JazzOne wrote:You can be offended, but the minorities didn't cause this. The schools establish their own policies, and the law schools have decided that diversity is more important than your particular accomplishments. Rail at the schools, if you will, but it seems rather pointless. Why not just go where ever you get in and try to make some friends? Expand your horizons? That sort of thing?

Don't worry about inequality. Run along and be a nice little white boy.

Is that how this works?

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blackwater88
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby blackwater88 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:17 pm

Anon NA wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
Anon NA wrote:The discussion has moved so far away from its title--and some people are actually interested in this topic: how do law schools know your race? Especially if even you are a little uneasy defining yourself in a simplistic manner.

For some people the question of race is not simply about blood percentages or skin color. A lot of people can go their whole lives without having to define "what" they are (racially, that is), then when applying to educational institutions they are asked to pick from narrowly and (paradoxically) ambiguously defined races.

This is not a simple topic, but I guess more people are interested in talking about AA and people who try to lie . . .

That's why you can check multiple boxes. Check all that apply IMO. If it's complicated, write a DS.


That sounds simple, but some schools won't even accept a diversity statement; furthermore, most schools who ask for a diversity statement ask you to talk about the diversity you will bring to their school, they do NOT ask you to explain exactly how you see yourself as a multiracial person and to defend that perception. Given that every word counts in the application writing process and that the general consensus on TLS is that following the directions of the application is of the utmost importance, explaining who you are (racially) is not necessarily an easy thing to do.


Really???? I blanketed the T14 and don't remember being told not to submit a DS.

To answer the second comment, if you're a good writer, you can convey that.

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moopness
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby moopness » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:17 pm

blackwater88 wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
What did you expect? The guy could barely break the 90th percentile.


Hahaha this is funny. I love how numbers are not even in your profile. Then again they wouldnt correlate to which school you get accepted to so who cares


95th+


I could just as easily laugh at your score, so how about we don't act like dicks and insult people's intelligence based on a single test?
On a different note...

"I really thought that once we had a black president, the attempt to demonize whites hating blacks would stop, but it seems to have grown, and I don’t get it. Yes, I do. It’s all about power."

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JazzOne
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:18 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:You can be offended, but the minorities didn't cause this. The schools establish their own policies, and the law schools have decided that diversity is more important than your particular accomplishments. Rail at the schools, if you will, but it seems rather pointless. Why not just go where ever you get in and try to make some friends? Expand your horizons? That sort of thing?

Don't worry about inequality. Run along and be a nice little white boy.

Is that how this works?

I'm just saying to place your anger in the right place. If you truly feel this is wrong, then the law schools are to blame. I'm a minority, and I happen to agree with you. Nonetheless, if you go to law school and act like this, you won't have any friends. So I just suggest that you temper your attitudes a little. It is just possible that we're wrong, you know.

d34d9823
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:19 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:Not to be a reality nazi, but you're less qualified than you think to be able to claim they're "your" accomplishments.

Oh? Did I miss the magical white person scantron genie on the LSAT?

I'll concede that if you're paranoid about racial profiling, you could posit that my grades could have been inflated by college profs.

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NZA
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby NZA » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:21 pm

moopness wrote:"I really thought that once we had a black president, the attempt to demonize whites hating blacks would stop, but it seems to have grown, and I don’t get it. Yes, I do. It’s all about power."


What?

It's not about one side demonizing the other, it's about working towards a just society.

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NZA
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby NZA » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:22 pm

JazzOne wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:You can be offended, but the minorities didn't cause this. The schools establish their own policies, and the law schools have decided that diversity is more important than your particular accomplishments. Rail at the schools, if you will, but it seems rather pointless. Why not just go where ever you get in and try to make some friends? Expand your horizons? That sort of thing?

Don't worry about inequality. Run along and be a nice little white boy.

Is that how this works?

I'm just saying to place your anger in the right place. If you truly feel this is wrong, then the law schools are to blame. I'm a minority, and I happen to agree with you. Nonetheless, if you go to law school and act like this, you won't have any friends. So I just suggest that you temper your attitudes a little. It is just possible that we're wrong, you know.


Humility and the internet do not mix, apparently.

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blackwater88
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby blackwater88 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:23 pm

moopness wrote:
blackwater88 wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
What did you expect? The guy could barely break the 90th percentile.


Hahaha this is funny. I love how numbers are not even in your profile. Then again they wouldnt correlate to which school you get accepted to so who cares


95th+


I could just as easily laugh at your score, so how about we don't act like dicks and insult people's intelligence based on a single test?
On a different note...

"I really thought that once we had a black president, the attempt to demonize whites hating blacks would stop, but it seems to have grown, and I don’t get it. Yes, I do. It’s all about power."


LOL

Someone bombed the LR section.

d34d9823
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:24 pm

NZA wrote:
JazzOne wrote:It is just possible that we're wrong, you know.


Humility and the internet do not mix, apparently.

Or reading comprehension, apparently.

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JazzOne
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:24 pm

As a minority, I also feel that the URM boost is unfair. It is an unjust and imperfect solution to the problem of racism. I think it foments further discord when a socioeconomic boost would achieve similar results without overt reverse discrimination. I also think that the racism of minorities is a taboo topic, yet racism by the majority is fair game for criticism. That creates a false impression that whites are simply recalcitrant and that no one else is to blame for the current state of affairs.
Last edited by JazzOne on Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:26 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:Not to be a reality nazi, but you're less qualified than you think to be able to claim they're "your" accomplishments.

Oh? Did I miss the magical white person scantron genie on the LSAT?

I'll concede that if you're paranoid about racial profiling, you could posit that my grades could have been inflated by college profs.



Maybe you missed the part about you not being a mythical white person that magically appeared out of nowhere before the LSAT exam, let alone in college.

I assure you if the the LSAT tested your logic on merit/unearned privileges, you would have needed a scantron genie.

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20121109
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Re: How do law schools even KNOW YOUR RACE?

Postby 20121109 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm

JazzOne wrote:As a minority, I also feel that the URM boost is unfair. It is an unjust and imperfect solution to the problem of racism. I think it foments further discord when a socioeconomic boost would achieve similar results without overt racial discrimination. I also think that the racism of minorities is a taboo topic, yet racism by the majority is fair game for criticism. That creates a false impression that whites are simply recalcitrant and that no one else is to blame for the current state of affairs.


Tell me what you would do, Jazz.




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