Am I an URM?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)

What Effect Would Applying as a Native American Have on My Application?

Help it.
13
46%
Hurt it.
9
32%
No effect.
6
21%
 
Total votes: 28

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duck1
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Am I an URM?

Postby duck1 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:19 pm

By blood, I am 1/64 Miami Indian. Culturally, I am more like 1/32 or 1/16 Miami Indian, as my ancestors who were 1/2 and maybe even 1/4 Miami Indian were raised as Indians and fully considered themselves Indians. I am a card-carrying member of the Miami Nation of Indians of the State of Indiana. I have received two small scholarships from the Miami Nation of Indians of the State of Indiana for my undergraduate education (I just graduated), and my father's generation received money from the federal government in the 1960's or 1970's as repayment for lands taken from the tribe. I don't remember whether I put down that I was white or white and Native American when I applied for undergraduate admissions. Besides the things I have already mentioned, being a Miami Indian has not had much of an effect on my life. If my family hadn't told me otherwise, I would have thought that I was 100% white. We Miami's are not federally-recognized, and all of us look white due to the fact that the Indians started marrying whites quite a while ago.

All of that said, I am wondering whether I could play the "race card" at all when applying to law school. I am thinking that I would put myself down as both white and Native American, but then attach an addendum to my application saying the same sort of things that I just said in the previous paragraph. Do you think that would help or hurt my application? By disclosing that much, I don't think that I would have anything to lose, would I? Also I am wondering if volunteering for the tribe or getting a little more involved in tribal activities in the next year (I plan on applying to law school in the fall of 2011) would help increase the legitimacy of my Native American status? What chance would there be that applying as a Native American, even in such a forthright manner, would be held against me on the Character and Fitness portion of the Bar? Is there anything else I'm missing here?

Thanks guys!

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kwais
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby kwais » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:20 pm

I thought you were kidding when I saw 1/64. I guess you are not. If you can sell it...

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Shooter
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby Shooter » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:21 pm

1/64? How did you... calculate that?

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blurbz
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby blurbz » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:21 pm

I think trying to capitalize on 1/64th of your blood is pretty suspect. That being said, if you can get a tribal identification card (I don't believe you will), then by all means mark it. If you can't, you might be setting yourself up for some uncomfortable conversations down the road...

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Kohinoor
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:23 pm

duck wrote:By blood, I am 1/64 Miami Indian. Culturally, I am more like 1/32 or 1/16 Miami Indian, as my ancestors who were 1/2 and maybe even 1/4 Miami Indian were raised as Indians and fully considered themselves Indians. I am a card-carrying member of the Miami Nation of Indians of the State of Indiana. I have received two small scholarships from the Miami Nation of Indians of the State of Indiana for my undergraduate education (I just graduated), and my father's generation received money from the federal government in the 1960's or 1970's as repayment for lands taken from the tribe. I don't remember whether I put down that I was white or white and Native American when I applied for undergraduate admissions. Besides the things I have already mentioned, being a Miami Indian has not had much of an effect on my life. If my family hadn't told me otherwise, I would have thought that I was 100% white. We Miami's are not federally-recognized, and all of us look white due to the fact that the Indians started marrying whites quite a while ago.

All of that said, I am wondering whether I could play the "race card" at all when applying to law school. I am thinking that I would put myself down as both white and Native American, but then attach an addendum to my application saying the same sort of things that I just said in the previous paragraph. Do you think that would help or hurt my application? By disclosing that much, I don't think that I would have anything to lose, would I? Also I am wondering if volunteering for the tribe or getting a little more involved in tribal activities in the next year (I plan on applying to law school in the fall of 2011) would help increase the legitimacy of my Native American status? What chance would there be that applying as a Native American, even in such a forthright manner, would be held against me on the Character and Fitness portion of the Bar? Is there anything else I'm missing here?

Thanks guys!
flame

imbored25
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:58 pm

Re: Am I an URM?

Postby imbored25 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:32 pm

people like you disgust me

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duck1
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: Am I an URM?

Postby duck1 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:37 pm

I'm not a flame, by the way.

I do already have a tribal identification card. That's how I was able to apply for and get the scholarship from the tribe.

I am 1/64th by blood since my father's mother's mother's father's mother was the daughter of a Miami Indian man who married a white woman who had been kidnapped by the tribe as a child and raised by the tribe.

I know this whole thing sounds ridiculous, but I am honestly trying to figure out what you guys think about it so that I know whether to even try it. It's better to put it out here and get made fun of than to actually do it in real life and have it hurt my application.

Thanks again!

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sophia.olive
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:40 pm

go for it

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bostlaw
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby bostlaw » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:41 pm

I just would think that morally, you should not put yourself down as native american when you are 0.016% native american.

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CGI Fridays
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby CGI Fridays » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:42 pm

imbored25 wrote:people like you disgust me

Would you be disgusted with an AA male with parents who make > $500K, went to private high school, & had a personal LSAT tutor if he checked URM?

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CGI Fridays
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby CGI Fridays » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:42 pm

bostlaw wrote:I just would think that morally, you should not put yourself down as native american when you are 0.016% native american.

Where would you draw the line?
1/32?
1/16?
1/8?
1/4?

dakatz
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby dakatz » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:45 pm

OP, you are free to do whatever you like, but I don't think it would be at all okay for you to claim Native American status. 1/64 is just wayyyy too far off (so is 1/32 and 1/16). The question I would then ask is "Are you active in the native american culture? Is it a part of your identity?" Yet you essentially answered that question in the negative by saying that you were thinking about getting involved (which would make your involvement nothing more than a selfish ploy, but thats another matter entirely). I will admit that there are many borderline cases on whether one should claim to identify with a URM culture. It is far from a black and white issue (no pun intended). But sometimes the answer is clear, and the answer here is no you should not claim to be Native American. Again, that is just my view, and perhaps others will see the matter quite differently.

dakatz
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby dakatz » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:48 pm

CGI Fridays wrote:
imbored25 wrote:people like you disgust me

Would you be disgusted with an AA male with parents who make > $500K, went to private high school, & had a personal LSAT tutor if he checked URM?


There is a huge difference. First of all, you don't "check URM". You check what ethnicity and race you are. For a black person to say they are anything but black would be lying. You can't equate that to some kid who might have one great great great great grandparent that is native american,
Last edited by dakatz on Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CGI Fridays
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby CGI Fridays » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:49 pm

If I thought the URM system was just, I'd agree with "no way man! that's wrong," but I think the system's ridiculous, so I advocate you try to game it if you can swing it.

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CGI Fridays
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby CGI Fridays » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:51 pm

dakatz wrote: There is a huge difference. First of all, you don't "check URM". You check what ethnicity and race you are. For a black person to say they are anything but black would be lying.

Fair. They wouldn't have to answer though. But they would 'cause it'd give 'em a boost.

dakatz wrote: You can't equate that to some kid who might have one great great great great grandparent that is native american,

There's no "might" about it.

imbored25
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:58 pm

Re: Am I an URM?

Postby imbored25 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:59 pm

why is native american even considered urm, havent we given them enough casino money, the only ppl who should be classified as urm are black people

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Kohinoor
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Am I an URM?

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm

duck wrote:I'm not a flame, by the way.

I was sure you were, but now i'm convinced.

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duck1
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby duck1 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:19 pm

bostlaw wrote:I just would think that morally, you should not put yourself down as native american when you are 0.016% native american.


I don't mean to be "that guy," but I"m 0.016 Native American, 1.6% Native American by blood. And since we aren't a federally-recognized tribe and we all look white, the Miami Nation of Indians of the State of Indiana recognizes anyone who has any ancestors that were Miami's as full-members of the tribe.

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danidancer
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby danidancer » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:37 pm

I could be wrong, but I remember hearing somewhere that LSAC's definition of Native American = 1/4. Again, I could be totally wrong, but if I were you I would take 5 minutes to look into any official requirements, etc, before going ahead with this plan...

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CGI Fridays
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby CGI Fridays » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:37 pm

Noooooooooo!

WhatToDo21
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:59 pm

Re: Am I an URM?

Postby WhatToDo21 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:43 pm

hahahahaha dude 1/64th a quite a stretch, but I mean if you have the card like you say you do then by all means. You aren't making the rules, just playing by them

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duck1
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby duck1 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:29 pm

LSAC has a set definition for this, even for Native Americans? If someone could find a link saying what fraction the official cutoff is, if there is one, could you please post it? That would be greatly appreciated!

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PDaddy
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby PDaddy » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:45 pm

duck wrote: If my family hadn't told me otherwise, I would have thought that I was 100% white. We Miami's are not federally-recognized, and all of us look white due to the fact that the Indians started marrying whites quite a while ago.

All of that said, I am wondering whether I could play the "race card" at all when applying to law school. Thanks guys!


First, let me tell you that you are completely outr of line by asking whether you should "play the race card". When URM's mention their ethnic background, they are not playing the race card.

Secondly, it is clear that, despite having a modicum of Indian blood, you were not raised in the traditions of Indian culture.

That having been said, I hope you mention your "Indian roots" in your applications and explain to adcoms your justification so they will know exactly how much of an idiot you are and reject you. You'll go 0/30 in applications!

Note: Your post reveals you to be a weak applicant, thus, you will apply to many schools by necessity. You are unbelievably ignorant.

BTW, I am a URM, African-American, Chinese and Indian (Blackfoot), and I am insulted by your comments.
Last edited by PDaddy on Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

2011Law
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby 2011Law » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:47 pm

One of your great great grandparents is NA? I would definitely talk to someone with lsac or wherever to get some sort of official response so that down the line if it is brought up you can point to that.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Am I an URM?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:51 pm

bostlaw wrote:I just would think that morally, you should not put yourself down as native american when you are 0.016% native american.

Surely you aren't this bad at math . . .




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