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drummerboy wrote:still waiting i want to stay in fl unless i get into some mega school elsewhere. as a cuban im wondering if checking urm box on lsp will give me a false sense of security. any thoughts?

Don't do it, just let your cycle happen. Just got dinged from Duke ED today. I immediately switched my UVa app to ED. I think I'd rather go to UVa anyway.

Dont do it?

drummerboy wrote:Dont do it?

If you do it and you don't get a boost, you'll just be getting your hopes up for nothing. If you don't do it, either it'll be more accurate or you will be surprised by what happens.

Are you using LSP to choose which schools to apply to? That is the only time it would matter.

Also, just learn to be less neurotic about it.

i havent done it. youre right.

Got my first ding today. I was 1 point under the lsat 25th and well above the gpa 75th. They didn't care about being part Brazilian.

StillHerexxx wrote:Got my first ding today. I was 1 point under the lsat 25th and well above the gpa 75th. They didn't care about being part Brazilian.

Was it Duke? I just got ding'd from Duke today. I had a feeling though, they are not remotely holistic in their approach to viewing apps.

Also got ding'd from Wash and Lee which I am suprised it wasn't a WL.

No boost as of yet. Still hopeful though.

Im Cuban and I got wl from W & L , LSAT 156 gpa 3.8 Go Figure. Maybe softs do count for something. I did mission work in ecuador for 2 summers. Who knows. This thread could be interesting to us all. PS to me WL is no better than a soft ding so im not getting my hopes up at all

It was lewis & clark. I had a 156 lsat and 3.86. Shitty, but hoping somewhere likes me, if not I will retake and actually study for more than a month.

not so shitty dont be dissuaded

Yeah, I am sure I will get im a few places. Just wish I found this site earlier. I was clueless on the lsat until november. I need in at buffalo with a bit of money.

I wish I just had a better freshman year in UG, I've had 4.0's straight through the past 2 years and my Freshman year was shit, so my LSAC GPA is a 3.5, which is holding me back so much. If my GPA was a bit higher I could be looking at quite a few top 30 schools. (163 LSAT)

Off topic. youll eventually have a job and will eventually be as well off as you like. it depends alot on your aggressivesness and of course luck. there is no way the economy will remain crappy and there is no way that in the long run all but those few from T14s will be the only ones who are employed and successful. i just spoke to a recruiter from a major florida firm. he stated that after graduating from a top 10 school, he got the coveted first year biglaw job in nyc. he was worked so ragged along with some peers that they left. he went to get an mba because he was so disillusioned then went to a smaller firm in florida. . moreover, physcians face the similar uphill battle. they are in debt 1 extra yea (4 years of med school not 3). make about 20 to 30 grand as interns then 4 more years in residence at 25 to 30 grand then maybe a fellowship which they have to pay for. then theyll go into private practice and go further into debt . college, med school loans, compounded by business loans etc. eventually they succeed and have thriving practices. so why on earth do law students believe that they must graduate and immediately make 160000. where does paying your dues and rites of passage come into play.

drummerboy wrote:Off topic. youll eventually have a job and will eventually be as well off as you like. it depends alot on your aggressivesness and of course luck. there is no way the economy will remain crappy and there is no way that in the long run all but those few from T14s will be the only ones who are employed and successful. i just spoke to a recruiter from a major florida firm. he stated that after graduating from a top 10 school, he got the coveted first year biglaw job in nyc. he was worked so ragged along with some peers that they left. he went to get an mba because he was so disillusioned then went to a smaller firm in florida. . moreover, physcians face the similar uphill battle. they are in debt 1 extra yea (4 years of med school not 3). make about 20 to 30 grand as interns then 4 more years in residence at 25 to 30 grand then maybe a fellowship which they have to pay for. then theyll go into private practice and go further into debt . college, med school loans, compounded by business loans etc. eventually they succeed and have thriving practices. so why on earth do law students believe that they must graduate and immediately make 160000. where does paying your dues and rites of passage come into play.

You should really do some basic research on the legal field before you post something as ignorant as this.

ignorant. then most of us should immediately drop out. because there aint no way over 90% of these overly pessimistic TLS posters are going to make it. you wont either if your stats are below LSAT 170 plus and GPA below 3.8.Sorry.Why even bother pursuing this career let alone continuing to post on TLS.

bk187 wrote:

drummerboy wrote:Off topic. youll eventually have a job and will eventually be as well off as you like. it depends alot on your aggressivesness and of course luck. there is no way the economy will remain crappy and there is no way that in the long run all but those few from T14s will be the only ones who are employed and successful. i just spoke to a recruiter from a major florida firm. he stated that after graduating from a top 10 school, he got the coveted first year biglaw job in nyc. he was worked so ragged along with some peers that they left. he went to get an mba because he was so disillusioned then went to a smaller firm in florida. . moreover, physcians face the similar uphill battle. they are in debt 1 extra yea (4 years of med school not 3). make about 20 to 30 grand as interns then 4 more years in residence at 25 to 30 grand then maybe a fellowship which they have to pay for. then theyll go into private practice and go further into debt . college, med school loans, compounded by business loans etc. eventually they succeed and have thriving practices. so why on earth do law students believe that they must graduate and immediately make 160000. where does paying your dues and rites of passage come into play.

You should really do some basic research on the legal field before you post something as ignorant as this.

This, I actually am strongly considering taking the GMAT and applying to business school if this cycle doesnt go amazingly well.

thats an honest answer.

Drummerboy, for what its worth, I think what you wrote was sensible. I know a guy who went to a law school ranked near #60, started his own practice, and is now making more than people his age in large law firms. He 'paid dues' in a sense, since he was only making just under 100k for the first 2 years, while he was ploughing revenues back into advertising. But now he's doing quite well. Bankruptcy practice is booming. Did you know lawyers charge more than $20,000 for a Chapter 11? Imagine doing a couple of those a month, maybe in a state or city where the competition isn't too stiff (not CA, NJ, NY). Yeah, its very possible to be a successful lawyer without going to a large firm, but it takes initiative and hard work.

Meanwhile his friend who started his own practice, but doesn't work so hard, is earning in the $60k range.

thanks. of course. thats the the path im going to take. i dont mind any kind of initial crappy employment. there is no way anyone will be fully prepared to function as a legitimate lawyer right out of law school. the comparison to medicine is legitimate on this level alone. i would never go to a doctor who didnt first go thru internship, residency, and then board certification. by the way, once you finish med school you can practice as long as youre licensed. but try to get employed by a group or try to go into private practice, no insurance company will allow you into their panels and no malpractice co will insure you. bottom line, you have to pound pavement pay your dues. expecting 160000 right out of law school is unrealistic and myopic. good luck to those that succeed in doing so.

Just to give some insight:

1. The legal field and legal hiring is structured differently than the medical field. It isn't really fair to compare the two. This isn't to say that the legal field is fair in not having kids pay their dues in a sense, but it is to say that that is how it is and your thoughts on the subject aren't going to change how firms operate.

2. Law salaries are basically bimodal. Either you're making biglaw pay or you're making shitlaw pay. The main point of this is, for most lawyers who start out making little money, their salary rarely increases to anything close of what biglaw pays. Is this fair? I guess it isn't but that is irrelevant. Very few lawyers start out making crap and work their way up to making a lot and that is a fact.

3. Which leads me to my next point: the cost of law school. Since, if you end up with a crappy salary it is unlikely to increase by a lot, you will struggle to pay off that 6 figures (up to 200k debt at many schools) that law school has put you in in any reasonable amount of time. Getting a biglaw salary is pretty much either attained during your 2L year if you win the OCI lottery or is lost to you forever, thus making biglaw your main option for paying off 6 figures worth of debt without suffocating under it.

4. There is one other option for paying off tons of debt reasonably fast and that is LRAP. However, PI jobs are tough to get (they are rare and they don't like to hire newly minted lawyers because they don't have the time/money to train them like law firms do) and thus this is often just as hard if not harder than biglaw.

5. Yes, some lawyers work their way up from shitlaw and end up making tons of money, but these are the exception. This is a very stupid thing to bank on having happen to you. If you're taking on a lot of loan money, you better give yourself a good shot at biglaw or PI with LRAP or be okay with suffocating debt for the next quarter century.

6. Anybody who has actually done any diligence in researching the legal field and wants to be a lawyer is unlikely to be in it for the money. The reason that people want biglaw is because of the exit options it grants and the fact that it allows one to pay off loans in a reasonable amount of time.

7. Basically the work your way up model just doesn't exist in a significant way in the legal field that would help you pay off 200k worth of debt in a reasonable amount of time. Sure it does happen, but to very few people so don't count on it. Accept that if you go to a crappy school you are likely to make a mediocre salary for the rest of your career, something that is not conducive to paying off sticker priced debt.

i guess most of us are doomed. why bother going to law school or continuing to post on tls for that matter.im beginning to wonder if these people who love to profess gloom and doom are going to drop out of this futile rat race or go down in flames like the rest of us.

got the WL at UVa today, was one of my top choices. Looks like I have been WL for two of my top 3 (GW and UVa) and I have not heard from my other top school, UNC.

Contrary to whatever the TLSers will profess, you DO get a boost from being "other hispanic." If not my 157 never would have gotten me on the WL.

drummerboy wrote:i guess most of us are doomed. why bother going to law school or continuing to post on tls for that matter.im beginning to wonder if these people who love to profess gloom and doom are going to drop out of this futile rat race or go down in flames like the rest of us.

Your hyperbole is unbecoming. There is nothing wrong with either:

1. Going to school for cheap and settling for an average law job.

or

2. Going to a good school with a good chance at biglaw or using the school's good LRAP.

Doom and gloom is just to give people an idea of the reality of the situation. If tuition at the average law school was 10-20k, the situation wouldn't be a big deal. The problem is that even bottom rung schools put you in 200k worth of debt with little chance of paying it off.

DeeCee wrote:got the WL at UVa today, was one of my top choices. Looks like I have been WL for two of my top 3 (GW and UVa) and I have not heard from my other top school, UNC.

Contrary to whatever the TLSers will profess, you DO get a boost from being "other hispanic." If not my 157 never would have gotten me on the WL.

I don't think this has been fully said as "no" (though some have claimed that).

Most TLSers with knowledge on it say that exists but it is neither as consistent or as large as MX/PR. Because of that it is not worthwhile to rely on, but if you are other hispanic you should at least shoot some higher than normal reaches.

guys i hope your right about this urm boost. maybe i havent seen it yet. im concerned that the urm boost will get us into a better school at ticket and create a lure that could be financially catastrophic. lets say for example that i get into a t14 -t20reach( highly unlikely) i probably wont get any money but become extremely tempted to go at ticket saddled with big time debt. im hoping i get into a decent school( ive yet to find one) with a decent scholly.

drummerboy wrote:guys i hope your right about this urm boost. maybe i havent seen it yet. im concerned that the urm boost will get us into a better school at ticket and create a lure that could be financially catastrophic. lets say for example that i get into a t14 -t20reach( highly unlikely) i probably wont get any money but become extremely tempted to go at ticket saddled with big time debt. im hoping i get into a decent school( ive yet to find one) with a decent scholly.

Just because you have an option doesn't mean you need to take it.

Think rationally when deciding on admissions offers.