Stats on URM

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
shemori
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Stats on URM

Postby shemori » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:34 pm

How are they actually doing in law school? failing miserably?

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bk1
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:37 pm


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Stanford4Me
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby Stanford4Me » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:42 pm

Doesn't matter, firms want us.

bdubs
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby bdubs » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:57 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:Doesn't matter, firms want us.


It may mean that you get to be window dressing at a firm, but there are some studies showing that URMs are less likely to make partner. I think I might have read the study on the LSAC website.

From what I remember, the takeaway was that URMs do as well in firms as their grades would predict. Take from that what you will.

Miranda 18
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby Miranda 18 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:58 pm

I believe the reason URMS do not make partner is because after a few years of experience other opportunities are open to them that leave. I remember reading this but will look for the site!

shemori
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby shemori » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:07 pm

Miranda 18 wrote:I believe the reason URMS do not make partner is because after a few years of experience other opportunities are open to them that leave. I remember reading this but will look for the site!

Thanks...Really wondering if many are setting their self failure

Oban
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby Oban » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:25 pm

I think alot of URMS don't make partner for the same reason a lot of women don't. Law is and will be for some time, and "Old Boys" Culture, especially at large firms. Many URMS have much better opportunities and exit options then try to change/dig through the culture at firms.

As far as URMS in lop law school, most seem to do fine, at least in respect to getting jerbs, which is all the matters really.

bdubs
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby bdubs » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:39 pm

bdubs wrote:
Stanford4Me wrote:Doesn't matter, firms want us.


It may mean that you get to be window dressing at a firm, but there are some studies showing that URMs are less likely to make partner. I think I might have read the study on the LSAC website.

From what I remember, the takeaway was that URMs do as well in firms as their grades would predict. Take from that what you will.


Found the paper I was referring to:

How Status, Prestige and School Performance Shape Legal Careers wrote:A few years ago, one of us (Sander) published a study of the use of racial preferences in big law firm hiring.19 Sander found that although firms hired blacks in proportion to their numbers in the applicant pool, to do so they had to select blacks with much lower law school GPAs than their white counterparts. The lower grades seemed to handicap blacks substantially in the big law “tournament”, plausibly leading to much higher attrition and lower rates of partnership attainment. Sander conceded that he had only indirect evidence for the role of law school GPA in law firm success, and therefore advanced the argument as a mere hypothesis.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/ ... kowitz.pdf

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bk1
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:42 pm

IIRC, URM's generally tend to get lower law school grades than others because they are admitted with lower LSAT/GPA numbers. Thus to hire them in proportion a firm has no choice but to hire ones with lower grades.

bdubs
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby bdubs » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:53 pm

bk1 wrote:IIRC, URM's generally tend to get lower law school grades than others because they are admitted with lower LSAT/GPA numbers. Thus to hire them in proportion a firm has no choice but to hire ones with lower grades.


You are presupposing that the relationship between LSAT/UGPA and law school performance holds holds equally for minority admits as for others. I would guess that it does, I just don't know.

Does anyone know if the LSAT/UGPA correlation study published by LSAC used race as a independent variable?

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bk1
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:57 pm

bdubs wrote:You are presupposing that the relationship between LSAT/UGPA and law school performance holds holds equally for minority admits as for others. I would guess that it does, I just don't know.


If you watch the youtube video I posted above he says that the LSAT correlation is even stronger for AA's than for others.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:06 pm

bk1 wrote:
bdubs wrote:You are presupposing that the relationship between LSAT/UGPA and law school performance holds holds equally for minority admits as for others. I would guess that it does, I just don't know.


If you watch the youtube video I posted above he says that the LSAT correlation is even stronger for AA's than for others.


Sanders study has been shown to have several flaws.
http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2 ... ohnson.htm

http://www.slate.com/id/2117745/

In addition, it should be noted that Sanders is also responsible for this study, which has some particularly egregious flaws in its reasoning.

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/g ... tudy-finds
Last edited by BruceWayne on Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

shemori
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby shemori » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:08 pm

According to that video lsat/gpa only account for,at most, 20 percent of law school grades.

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bk1
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:14 pm

I'll admit that I didn't look any deeper than the vid.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Stats on URM

Postby Stanford4Me » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:36 pm

bdubs wrote:
Stanford4Me wrote:Doesn't matter, firms want us.


It may mean that you get to be window dressing at a firm, but there are some studies showing that URMs are less likely to make partner. I think I might have read the study on the LSAC website.

From what I remember, the takeaway was that URMs do as well in firms as their grades would predict. Take from that what you will.

Oh, I know. I remember reading a paper a few years ago that discussed the issue of minority performance in law firms. I was being sarcastic with my original post.




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