AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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2011Cycle
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AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:20 am

Older AA male(1988 grad)
3.2 GPA.
I had a terrible year and and one-half at Stanford, thus subsequently transferred to University of Miami with significant upward trend and graduated with 3.76 in major with highest honors in major.
Worked 40 hours per week as a marketing assistant with IBM during last two years of undergraduate.
MBA from UCLA(entered at 21) and significant work experience in Asset Management

160 LSAT

Thanks in advance for insights as to safety and reach schools.

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sophia.olive
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:37 am

UIUC, GW, MINN, ND, IOWA, Indiana, W&M, UC davis
safties and lower targets
Just guessing:)

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sophia.olive
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:40 am

mvp, cornell, g town, ucla, texas
reaches? perhaps

What are your targets?

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:40 am

Thanks sophia

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:44 am

My targets. I've looked at the 25 percentiles in LSAT as my target, thus t30-50.

Age will most likely play a factor since schools do not want to risk having an unemployable graduate. That being said your reach names are definitely reaches. I was rejected by UCLA's law school 20 years ago when I attended the business school. Then again my LSAT then was 61 percentile and now is 80 percentile.

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sophia.olive
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:47 am

Why do you want to go to law school?

Have you thought about retaking the lsat?

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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:50 am

I think the perfect reach for you would be Northwestern ed

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:54 am

Why law school.
My recent position as a proprietary trader was effectively elminated by the recent passing of financial reform.

Thus, law school is a for a career change.

Why do you suggest Northwestern on an ED basis?

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sophia.olive
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:04 am

here are some at g-town

Luc252 U 164 3.2 $90,000 Accepted A
fasttrack226 U 165 3 $10,000 Accepted A
esq2013 U 165 3.11
slightlystoopid U 172 2.73 $60,000 Accepted W


Northwestern likes work experince.
There are a lot of <3.0, >170 in Northwestern and virginia ed
So though your lsat is lower it may be compisated for by the urm boost.

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:24 am

UVA's 15 day early decision sounds like an attempt at attracting the high LSAT/GPA combo applicants.. If it's not the primary objective, the outcome for splitters and low scorers is low risk as well.

Thanks, Sophia.

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Rand M.
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby Rand M. » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:01 am

Just to be clear, the OP is over 40, right? I think some of the people prognosticating are ignoring the fact that this may change the calculus. I think that outside of Northwestern that may be somewhat of a detractor. I'm just not sure how adcoms view such applicants. I'm not saying it will be wholly negative, I'm just saying that it could have some effect. That said, the best T14 chances are Cornell and NW.

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:05 am

Rand,

You echo a point I made when I responded to Sophia earlier. Realistically, it's prudent for me to temper my expectations.

Thanks

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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby EbonyEsq » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:26 am

2011Cycle wrote:My targets. I've looked at the 25 percentiles in LSAT as my target, thus t30-50.

Age will most likely play a factor since schools do not want to risk having an unemployable graduate. That being said your reach names are definitely reaches. I was rejected by UCLA's law school 20 years ago when I attended the business school. Then again my LSAT then was 61 percentile and now is 80 percentile.


Far from it. Their interest lies with numbers and recruiting minorities, particularly AA males. I think you have a shot at any T14 (excluding Yale, perhaps).

Age aside, you bring in years of experience. I think this will expand your options to be courted for in house counsel positions and government opportunities outside the traditional BIGLAW route upon graduation. If you attend a top law school your options will be limitless.

The most important thing in your application will be your Statement of Purpose in explaining why you have decided to transition into law school. Other than that, I think your reach should be all T14s and your safeties any school between T20-T40. Don't apply any lower than that.

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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:42 am

EbonyEsq wrote:
2011Cycle wrote:My targets. I've looked at the 25 percentiles in LSAT as my target, thus t30-50.

Age will most likely play a factor since schools do not want to risk having an unemployable graduate. That being said your reach names are definitely reaches. I was rejected by UCLA's law school 20 years ago when I attended the business school. Then again my LSAT then was 61 percentile and now is 80 percentile.


Far from it. Their interest lies with numbers and recruiting minorities, particularly AA males. I think you have a shot at any T14 (excluding Yale, perhaps).

Age aside, you bring in years of experience. I think this will expand your options to be courted for in house counsel positions and government opportunities outside the traditional BIGLAW route upon graduation. If you attend a top law school your options will be limitless.

The most important thing in your application will be your Statement of Purpose in explaining why you have decided to transition into law school. Other than that, I think your reach should be all T14s and your safeties any school between T20-T40. Don't apply any lower than that.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby EbonyEsq » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:59 am

sophia.olive wrote:
EbonyEsq wrote:
2011Cycle wrote:My targets. I've looked at the 25 percentiles in LSAT as my target, thus t30-50.

Age will most likely play a factor since schools do not want to risk having an unemployable graduate. That being said your reach names are definitely reaches. I was rejected by UCLA's law school 20 years ago when I attended the business school. Then again my LSAT then was 61 percentile and now is 80 percentile.


Far from it. Their interest lies with numbers and recruiting minorities, particularly AA males. I think you have a shot at any T14 (excluding Yale, perhaps).

Age aside, you bring in years of experience. I think this will expand your options to be courted for in house counsel positions and government opportunities outside the traditional BIGLAW route upon graduation. If you attend a top law school your options will be limitless.

The most important thing in your application will be your Statement of Purpose in explaining why you have decided to transition into law school. Other than that, I think your reach should be all T14s and your safeties any school between T20-T40. Don't apply any lower than that.

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Pardon?

Total Litigator
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby Total Litigator » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:34 am

2011Cycle wrote:My targets. I've looked at the 25 percentiles in LSAT as my target, thus t30-50.


Its a common misconception, but that should not be the criteria you should be using. You should be using your AA LSAT percentile and comparing it to the 25 and 75 percentiles for all applicants. While a 160 is the 80th percentil for all applicants, It is probably around the 97th percentile for AA applicants. That makes your score more like a 168. Sorry, I can't find the source for those statistics, but here is an article with some illustrative findings: http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_gradu ... _test.html.

Therefore when your looking at target schools, you should consider your score to be a 168 and plan accordingly. This is why you have a decent shot at T14 schools, excluding YHS. Anything T40 to T25 should be a safety for you. Also, make sure to request a fee waiver from every school you apply to, especially all the schools in the T14. You will most likely get a waiver at every school you request one from, and this will make your cycle all but free.

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:32 pm

Thanks Ebony and Total Litigator for the responses.

Litigator,

As for your logic of using the AA percentile adjustment method, do you have the source study or article to support your conclusion. The logic seems sound, but I'd like to read more.

Thanks

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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:12 am

Hey, yeah I know those aren't the kind of stats I should be throwing around without sources, but I just can't remember where I saw the info.

Here is some relevant information: http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_gradu ... _test.html:
"In 2004, 10,370 blacks took the LSAT examination. Only 29 blacks, or 0.3 percent of all LSAT test takers, scored 170 or above...

Even if we drop the scoring level to 165, a level equal to the mean score of students enrolling at law schools ranked in the top 10 nationwide but not at the very top, we still find very few blacks. There were 108 blacks scoring 165 or better on the LSAT in 2004. They made up 1 percent of all black test takers...

On anther thread, somebody did the math for standard deviations: The standard deviation for black applicants is 8.4 points, with a mean of 142.15 for all black applicants. So, 2 SDs is a 159. which would be the 98th percentile. Given that a mere 17 points on the LSAT represent the range from the 50th to the 98th percentile, it's not unreasonable to assume that an additional 2 points would be the 99th, at 161.

This above math is incorrect however, as AA LSAT scores are not a perfectly normal distribution. The distribution is actually slightly scewed to the right, so a 159 is probably not quite the 98th percentile.

See http://www.lsac.org/LsacResources/Resea ... -08-03.pdf, page 16 for a graph of African American LSAT scores, and you can see that the distribution is scewed slightly to the right.

Because in a perfect normal distribution a 159 = 98th percentile, and 165 is the actual 99th percentile, my thinking, although not perfect, is that a 160 should be at least the 97th/98 percentile for AA's, even with an actual distribution that is scewed slightly to the right. The 97th/98th percentile for all applicants is around a 167/168/169.

That, when combined with your pretty good softs, should put you well in the running for T14. However, if you think you could increase you LSAT by 3 or so points (at the risk of scoring lower than a 160 of course), you would almost have a lock on a T10.

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:07 am

Thanks Total.

I located a report from the LSAC site and performed a one-sided statistical test and you are indeed correct.

In light of my age, scholarship dollars is a long shot. But will know in 6 months.

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2011Cycle
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby 2011Cycle » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:02 am

After reading TLS histories of several cycles of 'what are my chances', I have updated my reach, target, and safety list. My numbers and softs are posted as the OP for this particular subject post. Any insights would be appreciated. I have looked at LSP and LSN for the mentioned schools.

Reaches: Georgetown, NYU, Michigan, Texas, Northwestern, Boston U, Vanderbilt, Washington(St. Louis)

Targets: Fordham, Boston College, USC(Los Angeles), Cornell, Cardozo, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Emory, Minnesota, William & Mary, Iowa, Univ. of Washington, Washington & Lee.

Safeties: Houston, Howard, Univ. of Miami

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sophia.olive
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:27 am

hey thats basicaly what i said.

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sophia.olive
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Re: AA Male: Seeking 'safety' and 'reach' recommendation list

Postby sophia.olive » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:31 am

I just looked at your history, you are annoying.




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