1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
SuperFreak
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby SuperFreak » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:09 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
SuperFreak wrote:No one has debated whether or not he can claim Mexican on his application; the question is rather whether he should claim it because, as I mentioned earlier, he has no cultural connection and hardly any reason at all to take a spot away from a normal Mexican.

This isn't really debatable, though. He can claim Mexican, therefore he should if he wants to. There's nothing else to it. You're not being asked if you want a boost, you're being asked how you identify. How schools use the information you provide (including what box you check, and whether your provide a DS, and what you put in it) is entirely up to them.

There's no such thing as a "normal Mexican", beyond what OP is. OP is 1/4 Mexican, therefore he is a normal Mexican and can identify as Mexican on his applications. That's all there is to it, with the can/should issue of identification.

What you're trying to do is start an AA debate by debating how that identification will affect his application process and whether you personally agree with the end results or not. That's not an issue of how OP can or should identify, that's an AA debate, and once again, that does not belong in the URM forum. You're warned to not continue pursuing such a debate here.


OP expressed concerns over whether or not he should claim Mexican on the application, even going so far as to presume that perhaps he might be gaming the system. A "normal" Mexican is not 1/4th Mexican any sense. Everyone knows this; it is hardly up for debate.

You're right in that I won't pursue this, but let me make it clarion that although OP does indeed qualify as a Mexican on the application, his feelings of apprehension at newfound status are well-founded. He would do well to carefully consider his decision.

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vanwinkle
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:17 pm

SuperFreak wrote:OP expressed concerns over whether or not he should claim Mexican on the application, even going so far as to presume that perhaps he might be gaming the system. A "normal" Mexican is not 1/4th Mexican any sense. Everyone knows this; it is hardly up for debate.

Not all normal Mexicans are only 1/4 Mexican, but someone who is 1/4 Mexican is a normal Mexican for admissions purposes.

OP was asking what he could and should identify as. That's perfectly fine for discussion, but the key thing is that discussion has nothing to do with how it will affect other people. Racial identification on forms is about what you are and how you identify, and that's it. Talking about how it might affect other people or OP "stealing" spots from other people is opening up an AA debate that doesn't belong here.

SuperFreak
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby SuperFreak » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:27 pm

Not all normal Mexicans are only 1/4 Mexican, but someone who is 1/4 Mexican is a normal Mexican for admissions purposes.


Once again, this has never been in contention. I am making a distinction between what admissions would consider a normal Mexican and those that actually should be considered a normal Mexican. A normal Mexican isn't OP, and although OP does officially qualify, it doesn't necessarily follow that he/she is actually "worthy" at all of that title whatsoever.

OP was asking what he could and should identify as. That's perfectly fine for discussion, but the key thing is that discussion has nothing to do with how it will affect other people. Racial identification on forms is about what you are and how you identify, and that's it. Talking about how it might affect other people or OP "stealing" spots from other people is opening up an AA debate that doesn't belong here.


All I did, for the most part, was state what I thought with regards to what OP was and what he/she should identify as on the application. I admit that I opined further than that but the central message of my posts still ring true to the germane.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:32 pm

SuperFreak wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:I'm guessing your heritage is from a particular part in Mexico where a big chunk of the population are blond with blue or green eyes and have white to fair skin complexions.

You're still Mexican, but you're an exotic one!

A few of my uncles have blue eyes and green eyes and can pass for Caucasians easily.

You're still Mex.


What exactly is the point of having this white Mexican in a diverse classroom? What does he/she offer? He isn't really culturally Mexican, he's admitted that, and he's not even of the average Mexican genotype. He contributes nothing to a classroom whatsoever.


Culture is not definitive. Only the literal definition of culture itself is definitive. In other words, definitions are vague and subject to interpretation.

To conclude that someone as unique as the OP could contribute nothing is a bit hasty and self-contradictory if you think about it. I'm not culturally Mexican and can pass for other ethnic groups easier than I can pass for a Mexican-American. Will this be my contribution to the classroom? Hard to say, but I also have a problem with authority, and I'd definitely try to contribute part of my rebellious perspective.

It really depends how you measure a contribution.

OP, short and sweet, if you cannot claim Caucasian or White due to ethnic heritage, then you'd fall under URM status.
Last edited by SwollenMonkey on Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:33 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
SuperFreak wrote:OP expressed concerns over whether or not he should claim Mexican on the application, even going so far as to presume that perhaps he might be gaming the system. A "normal" Mexican is not 1/4th Mexican any sense. Everyone knows this; it is hardly up for debate.

Not all normal Mexicans are only 1/4 Mexican, but someone who is 1/4 Mexican is a normal Mexican for admissions purposes.

OP was asking what he could and should identify as. That's perfectly fine for discussion, but the key thing is that discussion has nothing to do with how it will affect other people. Racial identification on forms is about what you are and how you identify, and that's it. Talking about how it might affect other people or OP "stealing" spots from other people is opening up an AA debate that doesn't belong here.


What is a normal Mexican? Is there an abnormal Mexican?

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blackwater88
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby blackwater88 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:03 pm

One of his grandparents happens to be Mexican therefore he can talk about being Mexican. For the 100000th time there's no URM box to check, anyone that claims otherwise is an idiot and should probably stay away from the legal profession.

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ArchRoark
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby ArchRoark » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:16 pm

SuperFreak wrote: More than that, the only white Mexicans are rich Mexicans who don't need AA anyway.


This is the most asinine comment I have read posted on TLS.

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20121109
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby 20121109 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:27 pm

Tiva wrote:
SuperFreak wrote: More than that, the only white Mexicans are rich Mexicans who don't need AA anyway.


This is the most asinine comment I have read posted on TLS.


LOL. You haven't been on TLS for long, have you?

Freakydude, AA isn't based on socioeconomic status. If it were, poor white people would also receive a boost. URM status is not used to remedy the discrepancy of class. It is used to help correct the disparity of race in the legal field relative to their representation in society as a whole.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:23 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Tiva wrote:
SuperFreak wrote: More than that, the only white Mexicans are rich Mexicans who don't need AA anyway.


This is the most asinine comment I have read posted on TLS.


LOL. You haven't been on TLS for long, have you?

Freakydude, AA isn't based on socioeconomic status. If it were, poor white people would also receive a boost. URM status is not used to remedy the discrepancy of class. It is used to help correct the disparity of race in the legal field relative to their representation in society as a whole.



I was having a shitty day up until I saw your sexy avatar. Thanks for cheering me up.

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danquayle
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby danquayle » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:40 pm

PokemonMaster12 wrote:So, I have a very mixed-up heritage, but it basically leaves me at mostly eastern European and 1/4 Mexican. However, with my blue eyes, fairly white skin (during non-summer months at least), and 6'2 stature, I don't exactly give off the Mexican vibe. My nearly black hair is about the only thing that resembles that heritage at all. I know I can check the Mexican box because I do indeed qualify, but the last thing I want to do is come off as a liar to the admissions people. When they see me, will they know that I checked the box? Because if they do, I could just imagine what they would be thinking. Also, I barely have any connection to my Mexican heritage besides a few stories, but I have diversity in other ways through the painful lifelong divorce of my parents and other things.

If I were to be considered, what kind of boost should I expect? My gpa is about a 3.79 and my LSAT is a 171, and I go to the lower Ivy that is supposedly known for grade-deflation. I've heard that LSP is not very accurate with URMs (especially considering I'm a "lesser" one). I'd have a hard time justifying going to law school to anything less than T3 unless I got some significant money because I will likely have extremely little to no financial assistance, and would probably not go less than T9 no matter what, but still likely wouldn't attend if I didn't do better. Thanks for any help!


They just want to be able to report their "diversity" anyways. You think they really have altruistic motives here? It's about self-promotion. Put down what you are. Nothing more, nothing less. If that means you're hispanic by virtue of your ancestry, if not what we consider to "look" hispanic, then so be it. It's not an ethnic term anyways. They'll do what they will with you. It's not like you owe them any favors.

PokemonMaster12
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby PokemonMaster12 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:18 pm

Well, thank you guys for the responses so far, I really appreciate it.

While I wasn't planning to start a revolution over whether I am Mexican or not, I truly do have many unique things to bring to the law school table. I've lived a quite abnormal life, and I really do have much to offer. It's kind of sad though how law schools really do not care too much for actual diversity, but instead strive to be the poster boys by gathering "unique" applicants for such pathetic motives.

Anyway, assuming that my heritage holds true, what would my chances be at YHSCCN (unless this is better suited for another forum)?

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bk1
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby bk1 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:37 pm

SuperFreak wrote:A "normal" Mexican is not 1/4th Mexican any sense. Everyone knows this; it is hardly up for debate.


Since not more than 25% of me is of any single ethnicity, does that make me an ethnically blank slate?

You're an idiot and you will never get it.

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vanwinkle
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:04 pm

PokemonMaster12 wrote:Anyway, assuming that my heritage holds true, what would my chances be at YHSCCN (unless this is better suited for another forum)?

I'd say your chances are extremely good at CCN, and a dice-roll at HYS (probably in at H). Y in particular is so application-driven it'll depend on how your app reads.

The thing about URM status is that it's an imperfect system and the law schools know it, everyone knows it, but it's the way the system works right now and there's nothing "wrong" with it helping you because it's not really your choice. There is no URM box, as I and other posters keep trying to point out. You apply, you provide all your info, and they decide how to use it. That's the system we have right now, and until someone changes it, you have good odds at T6.

Of course, with your numbers and claimed potential for some sort of strong "overcoming adversity" PS/DS, you had at least a shot at CCN already. Identifying as Hispanic will increase your odds there significantly, but you're definitely a T14 student even without any kind of URM consideration.

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vanwinkle
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:10 pm

SuperFreak wrote:Once again, this has never been in contention. I am making a distinction between what admissions would consider a normal Mexican and those that actually should be considered a normal Mexican.

Well, OP was asking about whether he could check the box without any admissions problems, not what your personal opinion of what a "normal Mexican" is. Some of your comments in this vein have been highly inappropriate. This is not a place to pass judgment on the ethnic identities of others. You would be extremely wise to not make comments like these in the URM forum anymore.

PokemonMaster12
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby PokemonMaster12 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:33 am

Thanks vanwinkle, I really appreciate your help. Is there any hope for money from CCN?

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vanwinkle
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:29 am

PokemonMaster12 wrote:Thanks vanwinkle, I really appreciate your help. Is there any hope for money from CCN?

I would imagine so, yes. Hard to predict how much (URM cycles are unpredictable) but I'd think so. I'd suggest as safeties that you blanket the rest of the T10 at least; if you're looking for scholarship money you're sure to find some at one of MVP with your numbers, with or without URM status.

Pip
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby Pip » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:17 am

First thought reading this is you aren't Mexican in the sense of having any real knowledge of the people in Mexico... You seem to have the notion that a Mexican must be dark skinned with black hair. I might suggest you go visit Mexico, you would find that not all Mexicans are dark skinned or have black hair. I went to school with a guy from Mexico that was as pale as any white guy in America. His wife was also born and raised in Mexico and had hair that was between blond and light brown.

So while you can freely check the box and be a minority... just know that even if you looked like a Mexican you come across as white in your knowledge of Mexico and what it is to be a Mexican. Being a minority isn't simply looking like that minority or being able to check the box on an applications, its about growing up in that group so you bring a perspective beyond the normal white boy perspective.

I would ask this question of you... is Obama the first African-American president? While he could pass your looks test and could certainly check the right box, but be honest. He was raised by white people far removed from any AA culture, he is as white as Mel Gibson if you get down to it.

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20121109
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby 20121109 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:20 am

Pip wrote:I would ask this question of you... is Obama the first African-American president? While he could pass your looks test and could certainly check the right box, but be honest. He was raised by white people far removed from any AA culture, he is as white as Mel Gibson if you get down to it.


You can't be fcking serious.

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ShuckingNotJiving
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby ShuckingNotJiving » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:28 am

Pip wrote:So while you can freely check the box and be a minority... just know that even if you looked like a Mexican you come across as white in your knowledge of Mexico and what it is to be a Mexican. Being a minority isn't simply looking like that minority or being able to check the box on an applications, its about growing up in that group so you bring a perspective beyond the normal white boy perspective.


Because everyone knows in order to have the minority experience you need to grow up with a group of minorities. Otherwise, your experience isn't legit. lol.wut.

Pip
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby Pip » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:30 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Pip wrote:I would ask this question of you... is Obama the first African-American president? While he could pass your looks test and could certainly check the right box, but be honest. He was raised by white people far removed from any AA culture, he is as white as Mel Gibson if you get down to it.


You can't be fcking serious.


Completely serious. If you look at how he was raised, he is no more AA than Mel Gibson. Being raised by a white family wealthy in Hawaii with enough money to put you into the most expensive private school on the island isn't the life of a typical AA nor the typical life of any American, it was the life of an elitist.... the only baffling part is that he wasn't a member of the republican party.

Pip
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby Pip » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:35 am

ShuckingNotJiving wrote:
Pip wrote:So while you can freely check the box and be a minority... just know that even if you looked like a Mexican you come across as white in your knowledge of Mexico and what it is to be a Mexican. Being a minority isn't simply looking like that minority or being able to check the box on an applications, its about growing up in that group so you bring a perspective beyond the normal white boy perspective.


Because everyone knows in order to have the minority experience you need to grow up with a group of minorities. Otherwise, your experience isn't legit. lol.wut.


If you have no connection to the culture then you aren't really legit... I know American Indians that pass as white, they have no more understanding of their tribal culture than I have of the culture in Tibet... They check the boxes and have used it to their advantage but they aren't legit... they know they are just box checkers and would freely admit it. At the very least I can respect their honesty about it, but they aren't legit.

jdhonest
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby jdhonest » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:37 am

Pip wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Pip wrote:I would ask this question of you... is Obama the first African-American president? While he could pass your looks test and could certainly check the right box, but be honest. He was raised by white people far removed from any AA culture, he is as white as Mel Gibson if you get down to it.


You can't be fcking serious.


Completely serious. If you look at how he was raised, he is no more AA than Mel Gibson. Being raised by a white family wealthy in Hawaii with enough money to put you into the most expensive private school on the island isn't the life of a typical AA nor the typical life of any American, it was the life of an elitist.... the only baffling part is that he wasn't a member of the republican party.


The fact that you might become a judge or even attorney one day is FUCKING baffling.

OP,
If you're smart enough to have those numbers, then you should be smart enough to go read a book, book a flight to Mexico, and stop being ridiculous enough as to say things like, "I don't look Mexican." That's just silly.

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20121109
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby 20121109 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:41 am

Pip wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Pip wrote:I would ask this question of you... is Obama the first African-American president? While he could pass your looks test and could certainly check the right box, but be honest. He was raised by white people far removed from any AA culture, he is as white as Mel Gibson if you get down to it.


You can't be fcking serious.


Completely serious. If you look at how he was raised, he is no more AA than Mel Gibson. Being raised by a white family wealthy in Hawaii with enough money to put you into the most expensive private school on the island isn't the life of a typical AA nor the typical life of any American, it was the life of an elitist.... the only baffling part is that he wasn't a member of the republican party.


Being black DOES NOT equal being poor.

Black elitists still face racism...Why do I feel like I've made this argument before? OH!! Because I have - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=117564&start=125.

When people see Obama, they still see a black man. That doesn't change just because he didn't grow up in poverty. Don't be an idiot.
Last edited by 20121109 on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ShuckingNotJiving
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby ShuckingNotJiving » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:44 am

so in order to for one to be truly considered AA or NA, they need to live the life of the "typical" AA or NA as defined by......Pip.

Ignore all the racism, prejudice that one might have experienced despite who raised them, where they grew up, where they went to school...

And, elitism isn't a lifestyle, it's a mindset.

Pip
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Re: 1/4 Mexican...I Look 4/4 White

Postby Pip » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:55 am

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Pip wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:
Pip wrote:I would ask this question of you... is Obama the first African-American president? While he could pass your looks test and could certainly check the right box, but be honest. He was raised by white people far removed from any AA culture, he is as white as Mel Gibson if you get down to it.


You can't be fcking serious.


Completely serious. If you look at how he was raised, he is no more AA than Mel Gibson. Being raised by a white family wealthy in Hawaii with enough money to put you into the most expensive private school on the island isn't the life of a typical AA nor the typical life of any American, it was the life of an elitist.... the only baffling part is that he wasn't a member of the republican party.


Being black DOES NOT equal being poor.

Black elitists still face racism...Why do I feel like I've made this argument before. OH!! Because I have - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=117564&start=125.

When people see Obama, they still see a black man. That doesn't change just because he didn't grow up in poverty. Don't be an idiot.


I never said you had to be poor to be black... I simply said that Obama's background has ZERO AA culture in it. I don't see him as a black man when I see him. I am more likely to see him as an Arab than I am to see him as black... Poverty has nothing to do with it, its the fact that he was raised by whites in a white culture. You can't relate to a culture if you've never lived in it, simple as that. I could get a baby from Sweden have him raised by a AA family that lived in a predominately AA area and in the end I would have a person that would be 100 times more black than Obama and yet be stone cold white. It is all about your experience not your color.... if you believe its just a matter of color then congratulations, there is no need for you to be checking any boxes for minority status because the only thing that you bring to the table is skin color and the goal of diversity is to bring different experiences not different shade for photo ops.




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