URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
rundoxierun
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:46 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:03 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:@BlakcMajikc

Your decision is completely personal depending on how you feel about the debt. From a pure financial standpoint I would say take one of the full-rides but there are obviously other factors that could lead someone to select HYS despite the debt(I may be doing so myself).

Also, your profile says you have an MBA from a decent school already. If you are interested in consulting why not just try to do it now?


The UVA/Michigan $$$ v Harvard choice has been talked about a lot on TLS and the discussion seems to go in circles, lol

Two reasons: 1. I didn't have the experience at the time to capitalize off of my MBA and get an upper-level consulting position at graduation 2. I have always wanted to practice law


Yeah Im contemplating Michigan/Berkeley $$$ v. Harvard (potential)$$ right now. Had my mind made up until I decided to think about summer associate earnings and how that could lower debt additionally at Mich/Berk but not at Harvard. Now Im back to square 1. It's basically an impossible decision. HYS needs to stop being so damn cheap with the need-based aid.

Consulting isn't as glamorous as they make it sound. I think I would much rather stick to law (although I only extensively know about life at the analyst level).

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:10 pm

Blakcmajikc, are you l leaning towards any school in particular?

But honestly, HLS trumps in your scenario. If the debt is a major concern, I would go with wherever you feel was the better fit.

User avatar
LLB2JD
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby LLB2JD » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:25 pm

@ blakc - why the heck did you spell black and magic wrongly? lol You just confused the heck out of me.

I'll say take out Duke, Northwestern and Georgetown (Maybe NYU) too. I'd lean towards fully scholly, but I can see how a case can be made for Harvard. I really think your decision should be on the 'schools you would be going for free' v Harvard.

You do not have an easy decision to make, but I'm sure a lot of folks would love to be in your shoes. Good luck.





Come to UVA :lol:

subtle
Posts: 927
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:43 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby subtle » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:54 pm

spacepenguin wrote:I'm pretty damn excited about this:

IN AT NYU!!!



Congrats!!

User avatar
yngblkgifted
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby yngblkgifted » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:31 pm

LLB2JD wrote:@ blakc - why the heck did you spell black and magic wrongly? lol You just confused the heck out of me.

I'll say take out Duke, Northwestern and Georgetown (Maybe NYU) too. I'd lean towards fully scholly, but I can see how a case can be made for Harvard. I really think your decision should be on the 'schools you would be going for free' v Harvard.

You do not have an easy decision to make, but I'm sure a lot of folks would love to be in your shoes. Good luck.





Come to UVA [/u] :lol:


+1

dkt4
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby dkt4 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:38 pm

BlakcMajikc

there a school that you really like for some reason? harvard definitely seems to be the most versatile of those degrees given what you want to do...although in terms of sports connections UVA and UM might have more college level opportunities. if you're thinking pro sports leagues, it goes back to harvard imo.



i think the reason HYS don't give a lot of need based aid is what's the point? you're gonna either be covered by LRAP or you're gonna make a good amount of money...so what do they need to give otyut hef need-based aid for?

rundoxierun
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:46 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:31 pm

dkt4 wrote:i think the reason HYS don't give a lot of need based aid is what's the point? you're gonna either be covered by LRAP or you're gonna make a good amount of money...so what do they need to give otyut hef need-based aid for?

So you arent paying $2,000/month in loans for 10 years in one of the most expensive cities in the world and working 55-65 hrs/wk to take home less than half of your gross annual salary.

dkt4
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby dkt4 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:00 am

So you arent paying $2,000/month in loans for 10 years in one of the most expensive cities in the world and working 55-65 hrs/wk to take home less than half of your gross annual salary.


I get why that's desirable but it doesn't really matter wrt what I was trying to say (admittedly without success). Also phone typing = hard

User avatar
BlakcMajikc
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:05 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlakcMajikc » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:17 am

BlaqBella wrote:Blakcmajikc, are you l leaning towards any school in particular?

But honestly, HLS trumps in your scenario. If the debt is a major concern, I would go with wherever you feel was the better fit.



On school alone, HLS is tops on my list. Cambridge sounds great, family is nearby, opportunities galore even if I decide not to practice. I am very sociable, so I am not worried about too much elitism or finding a good social group. The possibility of a lack of $ from HLS gives me a little hesitancy to be completely sold on the school before my aid offer is handed out.

User avatar
blacklawboss
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:22 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby blacklawboss » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:21 am

Has anyone done a "walk in" to meet with adcom to try to help their cause at a local school? Does anyone think it works?

User avatar
BlakcMajikc
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:05 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlakcMajikc » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:22 am

yngblkgifted wrote:
LLB2JD wrote:@ blakc - why the heck did you spell black and magic wrongly? lol You just confused the heck out of me.

I'll say take out Duke, Northwestern and Georgetown (Maybe NYU) too. I'd lean towards fully scholly, but I can see how a case can be made for Harvard. I really think your decision should be on the 'schools you would be going for free' v Harvard.

You do not have an easy decision to make, but I'm sure a lot of folks would love to be in your shoes. Good luck.





Come to UVA [/u] :lol:


+1



Agreed. NYU, Duke, Penn are out :( I figure if I am going to have loans, then I should go to HLS and have loans. I am hoping HLS is generous.

(I am about to do a search but) If anyone has links to threads about need-based aid at HLS, can you post them? I can't find as much info as I would like...

User avatar
BlakcMajikc
Posts: 763
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:05 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlakcMajikc » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:25 am

blacklawboss wrote:Has anyone done a "walk in" to meet with adcom to try to help their cause at a local school? Does anyone think it works?


I did a tour at one school... took notes and used it in my next point of contact with the adcom. It definitely helped my cause. After a tour/meet&greet at another school, my app was "magically" bumped up, reviewed, and I was admitted within 5 days.

I think it helps if you use the visit in your LOCI, similar to the first case, or if they actually jot down your name (and info), similar to my second case.

serdog
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:21 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby serdog » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:35 am

blacklawboss wrote:Has anyone done a "walk in" to meet with adcom to try to help their cause at a local school? Does anyone think it works?

Doing this tomorrow at UVIC. Hope it helps one way or other. Basically in have to have my UBC deposit in by March 25 so I would like to know one way or the other and not waste $300

User avatar
TIMEATELL
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:13 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby TIMEATELL » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:22 am

spacepenguin wrote:I'm pretty damn excited about this:

IN AT NYU!!!


Congrats spacepenguin!

rundoxierun
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:46 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:35 am

BlakcMajikc wrote:
yngblkgifted wrote:
LLB2JD wrote:@ blakc - why the heck did you spell black and magic wrongly? lol You just confused the heck out of me.

I'll say take out Duke, Northwestern and Georgetown (Maybe NYU) too. I'd lean towards fully scholly, but I can see how a case can be made for Harvard. I really think your decision should be on the 'schools you would be going for free' v Harvard.

You do not have an easy decision to make, but I'm sure a lot of folks would love to be in your shoes. Good luck.





Come to UVA [/u] :lol:


+1



Agreed. NYU, Duke, Penn are out :( I figure if I am going to have loans, then I should go to HLS and have loans. I am hoping HLS is generous.

(I am about to do a search but) If anyone has links to threads about need-based aid at HLS, can you post them? I can't find as much info as I would like...


PMd

ETA: For anyone wondering.. the gist is that smart poor people probably shouldnt go to Harvard.

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:51 am

BlakcMajikc wrote:I am hoping HLS is generous.


Although HLS grant funding can be generous for students with high financial need, the school's annual grant budget covers only about 11% of the entire cost of attendance for the J.D. student population. As a result, it is a scarce resource and many students will not qualify for grant funding. For the majority of students, then, financial assistance comes in the form of loans.


http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... aging.html

I'm afraid not. :(

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:59 am

tkgrrett wrote:ETA: For anyone wondering.. the gist is that smart poor people probably shouldnt go to Harvard.


...and yet, most of the black students who got into Harvard, many of whom come from poor backgrounds, attended. In fact, HLS has the largest black student population amongst the top law schools.

I believe the vast opportunities and networking far outweighs the cost, most of which will be paid off in 5-10 years, give or take. Not to mention the fact that LIPP doesn't limit Harvard graduates to BIGLAW.

User avatar
Fresh
Posts: 681
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:30 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Fresh » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:00 am

tkgrrett wrote:ETA: For anyone wondering.. the gist is that smart poor people probably shouldnt go to Harvard.


huh???

User avatar
LLB2JD
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:32 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby LLB2JD » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:14 am

BlaqBella wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:ETA: For anyone wondering.. the gist is that smart poor people probably shouldnt go to Harvard.


...and yet, most of the black students who got into Harvard, many of whom come from poor backgrounds, attended. In fact, HLS has the largest black student population amongst the top law schools.

I believe the vast opportunities and networking far outweighs the cost, most of which will be paid off in 5-10 years, give or take. Not to mention the fact that LIPP doesn't limit Harvard graduates to BIGLAW.



Ahmm..Smart poor people, doesn't equate to smart black people. So the statement would not apply to, for example, Barack Obama's daughters e.t.c.

Equally, his reasoning would apply to poor non-blacks.

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:19 am

LLB2JD wrote:Ahmm..Smart poor people, doesn't equate to smart black people. So the statement would not apply to, for example, Barack Obama's daughters e.t.c.


Hence my "...many of whom come from poor backgrounds" statement. Fact is, poor people attend Harvard, black or non-black.

I specified black poor people given the context.

rundoxierun
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:46 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:29 am

BlaqBella wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:ETA: For anyone wondering.. the gist is that smart poor people probably shouldnt go to Harvard.


...and yet, most of the black students who got into Harvard, many of whom come from poor backgrounds, attended. In fact, HLS has the largest black student population amongst the top law schools.

I believe the vast opportunities and networking far outweighs the cost, most of which will be paid off in 5-10 years, give or take. Not to mention the fact that LIPP doesn't limit Harvard graduates to BIGLAW.


I mean, I get the whole opportunities/networking spiel and might be attending myself but that doesnt make it a good financial decision. Ive been doing the math and we are talking about potentially $100K in debt difference pre-interest and that doesnt count what the estimated summer contribution is going to do to your summer income(if you are paying rent in NYC/DC/CA just give up on having more than a few hundred dollars left over). Plus, my conversations with SFS indicate that while tuition increases, their max grant doesnt.. instead, the base loan is what is expected to increase by about 5% each year. If you are looking at a full-ride at a top 10 school LIPP doesnt really offer much of an extra benefit since the interest gained each year will likely be so low that you dont really have to worry about any negative amortization consequences from leaving IBR early and the debt level is so low that you would have no trouble paying it off with private sector employment whether on a 30 year or 10 year plan.

From a financial standpoint, there is no way that attending Harvard over a top-10 full ride offers a net benefit in the vast, vast majority of cases. Tuition has gotten so high these days that I just see very, very few ways that it could.

User avatar
Fresh
Posts: 681
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:30 pm

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Fresh » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:34 am

tkgrrett wrote:ETA: For anyone wondering.. the gist is that smart poor people probably shouldnt go to Harvard.

tkgrrett wrote:I mean, I get the whole opportunities/networking spiel and might be attending myself but that doesnt make it a good financial decision. Ive been doing the math and we are talking about potentially $100K in debt difference pre-interest and that doesnt count what the estimated summer contribution is going to do to your summer income(if you are paying rent in NYC/DC/CA just give up on having more than a few hundred dollars left over). Plus, my conversations with SFS indicate that while tuition increases, their max grant doesnt.. instead, the base loan is what is expected to increase by about 5% each year. If you are looking at a full-ride at a top 10 school LIPP doesnt really offer much of an extra benefit since the interest gained each year will likely be so low that you dont really have to worry about any negative amortization consequences from leaving IBR early and the debt level is so low that you would have no trouble paying it off with private sector employment whether on a 30 year or 10 year plan.

From a financial standpoint, there is no way that attending Harvard over a top-10 full ride offers a net benefit in the vast, vast majority of cases. Tuition has gotten so high these days that I just see very, very few ways that it could.


got it - you meant poor people shouldn't attend from a purely financial standpoint
Of course that's not the only factor anyone should consider when attending law school

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:35 am

tkgrrett wrote:I mean, I get the whole opportunities/networking spiel and might be attending myself but that doesnt make it a good financial decision.


Given the reasons provided and assuming the opposite of good is bad, why are you considering making a bad financial decision?

rundoxierun
Posts: 1893
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:46 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:43 am

BlaqBella wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:I mean, I get the whole opportunities/networking spiel and might be attending myself but that doesnt make it a good financial decision.


Given the reasons provided and assuming the opposite of good is bad, why are you considering making a bad financial decision?


Truthfully, I have no idea why I am even considering it. In the back of your mind you always wonder if you will be that person who lands the Wachtell equivalent position where you get an 80-100% salary bonus, pay off your debt in 2 years and then laugh at the idea of worrying about debt. Plus there is the fact that society has brainwashed me to think "Its Harvard" whenever I consider turning it down.

User avatar
BlaqBella
Posts: 869
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:41 am

Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:56 am

tkgrrett wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:I mean, I get the whole opportunities/networking spiel and might be attending myself but that doesnt make it a good financial decision.


Given the reasons provided and assuming the opposite of good is bad, why are you considering making a bad financial decision?


Truthfully, I have no idea why I am even considering it. In the back of your mind you always wonder if you will be that person who lands the Wachtell equivalent position where you get an 80-100% salary bonus, pay off your debt in 2 years and then laugh at the idea of worrying about debt. Plus there is the fact that society has brainwashed me to think "Its Harvard" whenever I consider turning it down.


tkgrrett wrote:On the other hand, b/c of my background I do get some value out of simply going to Harvard. I come from a poorer background and in many ways my attendance kind of validates my family's work raising me, the extra effort teachers put in helping me, and the time that other mentors took out of their day to show me the ropes. As far as career interests go, I do have some interest in possibly going into academia or high-level business work at some point if the opportunity arises after biglaw. Harvard's name would be advantageous in both of those fields. In addition, I think that Harvard's LIPP program provides enough of a reliable safety net that I really dont see much of a possibility for a catastrophic outcome (by 2014 the income scale should rise to a level where below 50k means they cover all your loans).

Flying home from ASW I really thought about it and in 30 years I really dont see myself thinking back and wishing I made more money when I was younger. Honestly, I dont think I would regret going to any of these schools. Still, I enjoyed my visit to Cambridge and I believe that Harvard offers some benefits beyond finances that makes up for the difference in aid offers between the schools.


:wink:


All the best to you.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests