URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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Moxie
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Moxie » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:34 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
Moxie wrote:
Finally, one small note, I know quite a few HLS URMs who have 1L SAs (myself included), and with better odds of that, you could take another 25-30k off your debt level.
In summary - visit the schools, but all else equal, HLS' prestige and employment opportunities usually make it worth it.


Unfortunately, the worst element about Harvard's financial aid policy is that significant summer earnings absolutely destroy any grant aid you planned on getting. For instance, making 30k in NYC over 10 weeks would reduce grants for the next year by ~$14,400. After taxes and housing/living expenses you would be lucky to end up with 2-3k leftover from your summer job. For grant recipients, summer employment is financially worthless. The only hope for reducing loans is to get an SA that comes with a big scholarship.


Definitely a fair point. But I assume that will be happening to me next year in regards to FA (for 3L). But 30k > the (likely) 10k I will lose. Either way, 30k is more than I would lose in grants, and even your example would have you getting a net profit of 15k. Finally the experience of working as a 1L SA should create better opportunities for OCI.

Further note - I did not do SEO, but I agree that (half?) of URM 1L SAs I know claimed SEO contacts were the reason.

AppsAbound
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby AppsAbound » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:41 pm

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Last edited by AppsAbound on Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:11 pm

DorianGray89 wrote:[Chicago's] New LRAP

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/dramat ... ed-support



I'm not headed there but it seems impressive.

rundoxierun
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:36 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:
DorianGray89 wrote:[Chicago's] New LRAP

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/dramat ... ed-support



I'm not headed there but it seems impressive.


Its glossy but not as impressive as they make it seem. Looking at the details you see that it requires you to participate in IBR and just makes your IBR payments. This means that if you dont do PI the full 10 years it doesnt benefit you much at all.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby LAWLAW09 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:21 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:
DorianGray89 wrote:[Chicago's] New LRAP

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/dramat ... ed-support



I'm not headed there but it seems impressive.


Its glossy but not as impressive as they make it seem. Looking at the details you see that it requires you to participate in IBR and just makes your IBR payments. This means that if you dont do PI the full 10 years it doesnt benefit you much at all.


Isn't this the case for all but a handful of schools (I don't know which ones - Y,H,S,?,?)?

Other question (not just to TK): Are there scenarios where one could be in such a system and still have their loans paid off through LRAP+IBR much sooner than 10 years? Scenario: Student owes only 60K after law school and enters a LRAP/IBR program such as Chicago's. Would ten years of PI work be necessary with debts that are that low or that have been decreased significantly?

rundoxierun
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:40 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:
DorianGray89 wrote:[Chicago's] New LRAP

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/dramat ... ed-support



I'm not headed there but it seems impressive.


Its glossy but not as impressive as they make it seem. Looking at the details you see that it requires you to participate in IBR and just makes your IBR payments. This means that if you dont do PI the full 10 years it doesnt benefit you much at all.


Isn't this the case for all but a handful of schools (I don't know which ones - Y,H,S,?,?)?

Other question (not just to TK): Are there scenarios where one could be in such a system and still have their loans paid off through LRAP+IBR much sooner than 10 years? Scenario: Student owes only 60K after law school and enters a LRAP/IBR program such as Chicago's. Would ten years of PI work be necessary with debts that are that low or that have been decreased significantly?


At the max of 80k your IBR payment would be like 12k max. the interest on the loan of 60k at a 7.5% int rate would be like 4.5k(and declining). In this case, unless Im missing something you would pay off the 60k before the 10 yrs were up using UChicago's sytem. Im not sure if the IBR payment is 10% or 15% though so you might want to check that.

jd20132013
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby jd20132013 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:08 pm

it's pretty tense as I withdraw from more and more schools. Even though I know I wasn't going to go to them it still feels like I'm slowly chopping away at my options :shock:

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yngblkgifted
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby yngblkgifted » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:31 pm

jd20132013 wrote:it's pretty tense as I withdraw from more and more schools. Even though I know I wasn't going to go to them it still feels like I'm slowly chopping away at my options :shock:


Oh shut up and just go to Harvard. :roll: Congrats man, you earned it.

jd20132013
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby jd20132013 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:37 pm

Lol you're right...that's probably the end game

just tend to overthink things I suppose
and I also don't want to make a decision just based on the emotional appeal of the school
i'm almost looking for reasons to Not go at this point

dkt4
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby dkt4 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:24 pm

columbia acceptance in the mail today, that made it a good day :)

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law_monkey
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby law_monkey » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:13 am

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
law_monkey wrote:
yngblkgifted wrote:First of all, congrats to all of you! There has been some serious awesomeness on this thread recently!

Secondly, for anyone who was held at Harvard, did you send them additional information? Also, is being held like a soft rejection?


A few holds this cycle got JR1s, but a lot of them looked like they shouldn't have had one in the first place. Last year most of the holds became waitlists. A lot of people sent in LOCIs. I'm going there in person next week, so I'm also going to drop off an update about some pending deadlines I have. Basically it's worth a try because it's Harvard, but we're getting later in the cycle now when there are fewer seats left.

You don't think you're doing a little too much? lying out to Harvard just because? It's bold, but I hope you were already going to be there. Because I'm never booking a flight across the country just to throw in an update for a school...but then again...that's just me.


P.S. McGeorge STOP EMAILING ME!


No I'm on the east coast doing school visits for spring break. I'm going to CLS and HLS even though I haven't heard yet because even if I do get in eventually I won't be able to go to the ASW. So I'm taking a tour and thought it'd be more convenient to just drop it by the office than mail it in when I'm going to be there.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby LAWLAW09 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:39 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
At the max of 80k your IBR payment would be like 12k max. the interest on the loan of 60k at a 7.5% int rate would be like 4.5k(and declining). In this case, unless Im missing something you would pay off the 60k before the 10 yrs were up using UChicago's sytem. Im not sure if the IBR payment is 10% or 15% though so you might want to check that.




If you were missing something, I wouldn't catch it. lol Thanks.

serdog
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby serdog » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:52 pm

Not that I going to attend but...
IN at Mississippi College with a really cool letter (the dean added a hand written about how impressed he was with my background :) ) no word on money yet (full package is to follow) I almost feel bad turn it down but all of TLS and lawstudents.ca would hunt me down and beat me if I did :wink:

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:44 pm

law_monkey wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:
law_monkey wrote:
yngblkgifted wrote:First of all, congrats to all of you! There has been some serious awesomeness on this thread recently!

Secondly, for anyone who was held at Harvard, did you send them additional information? Also, is being held like a soft rejection?


A few holds this cycle got JR1s, but a lot of them looked like they shouldn't have had one in the first place. Last year most of the holds became waitlists. A lot of people sent in LOCIs. I'm going there in person next week, so I'm also going to drop off an update about some pending deadlines I have. Basically it's worth a try because it's Harvard, but we're getting later in the cycle now when there are fewer seats left.

You don't think you're doing a little too much? lying out to Harvard just because? It's bold, but I hope you were already going to be there. Because I'm never booking a flight across the country just to throw in an update for a school...but then again...that's just me.


P.S. McGeorge STOP EMAILING ME!


No I'm on the east coast doing school visits for spring break. I'm going to CLS and HLS even though I haven't heard yet because even if I do get in eventually I won't be able to go to the ASW. So I'm taking a tour and thought it'd be more convenient to just drop it by the office than mail it in when I'm going to be there.

Well that makes more sense. I'm like flying across the country to drop off a letter? No no no. I was getting scared that you'd be one of those crazy gunners in class.

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CryingMonkey
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby CryingMonkey » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:59 am

I'm also leaning pretty heavily to Harvard over Michigan. I had a good time at both ASWs, and it's hardly an easy decision, but I was very impressed last weekend. I'm going to wait to decide between the two until I hear from Harvard about $ (I also have an odd situation and it's taking some extra work) but I've made the same general consideration - Harvard's LIPP is a huge mitigator, and even if I pay full tuition then when/if I go biglaw I'll still be making a stupid amount of money. I've been figuring on trying to pay my loans off after 5 years and even looking at those numbers I'd be taking home something like three times what I made at my last job, and I felt pretty comfortable with how much I made then. Like tk, I'm not trying to roll around in a bugatti or buy a condo in manhattan right out of school, so I'll be ok for a few years.

I'll be sending out a raft of withdrawals tomorrow; gtown, UVA, chicago, berkeley, nu, nyu, columbia. Assuming I can man up enough to actually do it, of course. It's kind of a terrifying prospect, but I'm pretty satisfied with narrowing it down and i want to free up some spaces for people still waiting. anyone considering a strategic request for money, i had full from uva. doubt timing really matters, but hey, can't hurt to try.

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TheTopBloke
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby TheTopBloke » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:01 am

FUCK LAW SCHOOL.

socraticmethodman
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby socraticmethodman » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:16 am

My fellow URMs, what do you aspire to do after law school? I'll start; I'd like to work in the Civil Rights Department of the DOJ or as a litigator for the ACLU. I'd also like to serve as judge someday.

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blacklawboss
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby blacklawboss » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:48 am

O
socraticmethodman wrote:My fellow URMs, what do you aspire to do after law school? I'll start; I'd like to work in the Civil Rights Department of the DOJ or as a litigator for the ACLU. I'd also like to serve as judge someday.


Initially I wanted to do sports law, but now I'm leaning towards corporate litigation.

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BlaqBella
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:01 am

CryingMonkey wrote:but I've made the same general consideration - Harvard's LIPP is a huge mitigator, and even if I pay full tuition then when/if I go biglaw I'll still be making a stupid amount of money.


If going straight into NYC BIGLAW, you're looking at 39-40% of your base salary going to both state and federal income taxes. And considering the COL in NYC and miscellaneous deductions (ie retirement contributions -- they're still important) you're still working with a tight budget to pay off those loans. Thankfully for most BIGLAW firms, end-of-year bonuses are huge incentives.

P.S. None of this matters if you're fortunate enough to get an offer from WLRK. Their first years are pulling over 200k, with the expectation you will bill above current market standards (3000 billable hours is pretty common). :wink:

rundoxierun
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:42 am

BlaqBella wrote:
CryingMonkey wrote:but I've made the same general consideration - Harvard's LIPP is a huge mitigator, and even if I pay full tuition then when/if I go biglaw I'll still be making a stupid amount of money.


If going straight into NYC BIGLAW, you're looking at 39-40% of your base salary going to both state and federal income taxes. And considering the COL in NYC and miscellaneous deductions (ie retirement contributions -- they're still important) you're still working with a tight budget to pay off those loans. Thankfully for most BIGLAW firms, end-of-year bonuses are huge incentives.

P.S. None of this matters if you're fortunate enough to get an offer from WLRK. Their first years are pulling over 200k, with the expectation you will bill above current market standards (3000 billable hours is pretty common). :wink:


Yep. 160k in NYC translates to like 98 or 99k/yr. Even 210k only comes out to 126k after taxes(I have officially started to hate taxes). That said, bonuses do help and living on 70-75k even post tax/loans in NYC isnt terrible(72k post tax is still the equivalent of a 6 figure pre-tax income without even taking loans into account). 5 year payoff is possible if you use 100% of bonuses towards loans

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CryingMonkey
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby CryingMonkey » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:09 am

tkgrrett wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
CryingMonkey wrote:but I've made the same general consideration - Harvard's LIPP is a huge mitigator, and even if I pay full tuition then when/if I go biglaw I'll still be making a stupid amount of money.


If going straight into NYC BIGLAW, you're looking at 39-40% of your base salary going to both state and federal income taxes. And considering the COL in NYC and miscellaneous deductions (ie retirement contributions -- they're still important) you're still working with a tight budget to pay off those loans. Thankfully for most BIGLAW firms, end-of-year bonuses are huge incentives.

P.S. None of this matters if you're fortunate enough to get an offer from WLRK. Their first years are pulling over 200k, with the expectation you will bill above current market standards (3000 billable hours is pretty common). :wink:


Yep. 160k in NYC translates to like 98 or 99k/yr. Even 210k only comes out to 126k after taxes(I have officially started to hate taxes). That said, bonuses do help and living on 70-75k even post tax/loans in NYC isnt terrible(72k post tax is still the equivalent of a 6 figure pre-tax income without even taking loans into account). 5 year payoff is possible if you use 100% of bonuses towards loans


For various reasons I'm aiming at DC instead of NYC (I know it's a smaller, tougher market, which is part of what I'm considering in choosing schools). I live there now, and after accounting for taxes, savings, retirement, and loans on a 5-year payoff plan, I'd be making just a little under 2.5 times what I made at my last job, and that's without accounting for bonuses at all. Now, in the scheme of things, that's not all that much money and I'll be happy when I'm not paying out a huge chunk of my salary to loans, but given that I've survived okay working hellish hours and taking home less than 30k, it seems like it shouldn't be too ridiculously hard to make it work for me. Different strokes for different folks, but I also feel this is one area where working before school is very beneficial - I know what the quality of life is like with a shitty salary, and I know how much I need to live comfortably for a few years.

Which isn't to say I won't also be playing the lottery every week.

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BlaqBella
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlaqBella » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:29 pm

Just make sure no kids come into the picture those first 5 years. Easier said than done if you're a female associate/wife. ;)

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:31 pm

In at harvard. IN AT HARVARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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CryingMonkey
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby CryingMonkey » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:37 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:In at harvard. IN AT HARVARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Congrats!

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Fresh
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Fresh » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:38 pm

unc0mm0n1 wrote:In at harvard. IN AT HARVARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

huge congrats, you deserve it!




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