URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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LAWLAW09
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby LAWLAW09 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:58 pm

tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?



I'm curious to know when you plan on withdrawing from those schools. :)


5:03PM: TKGRRETT: Dear Law School. Please take back your seat and money.
5:04PM: LAWLAW09: Dear Law School. I really love your school and could use some more financial aid to make my decision.
5:05PM: Law School's Adcomms: TKGRRETT was an awesome candidate. Sure wish we had him. Oh well. What do we do with all this extra money? What about that email we just got from that lesser cool guy that really loves us? You mean LAWLAW09? Yeah. I guess it's his lucky day.

::tkgrrett and lawlaw09 both (separately) live happily ever after::

lol


(I'm only kinda joking (accepted to Berkeley so TK if ur down let me know), but I think URMs could increase their chances of getting aid if we coordinated the scenario above. It wouldn't hurt. Also, your options are greatttt.)

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:26 am

tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?

I'd love to hear why.

ksimon2007
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby ksimon2007 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:32 am

tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?


I think you only have to utter one man's name...Barack Obama

rundoxierun
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:10 am

Non-Chalant1 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?

I'd love to hear why.


Disclaimer: I come from a low income family so I am probably looking at a max grant of around 30k from Harvard so that probably changes the calculus compared to what most people here face. I havent received my official aid offer yet so all this could change if there was some kind of shocking surprise.

First off, I'll be the first to admit that from a purely financial standpoint there will probably be no net gain(and somewhat likely a net loss) from me choosing Harvard over T-10 full rides. Anyone who argues otherwise is being ridiculous. That said, I really don't anticipate being impoverished after graduating from any of the 4 schools. It basically comes down to how much I value the ~60-70k savings. Assuming I get biglaw at 160k, on a 10 yr. payment plan the debt from Harvard would lead to me making about 70-75k/yr after taxes and loan payments while the full rides would likely put me in the 80-88k/yr range. At those income levels, I just dont think think the money means that much to me. Im not the type of person who gets more value from having a $65,000 bmw instead of a $45,000 one or who would enjoy a $3,000/month apt. less than a $4,000/month apartment. Basically, there is simply a threshold income that I find completely acceptable, which all four schools would probably meet, and the value of the money decreases past that point.

On the other hand, b/c of my background I do get some value out of simply going to Harvard. I come from a poorer background and in many ways my attendance kind of validates my family's work raising me, the extra effort teachers put in helping me, and the time that other mentors took out of their day to show me the ropes. As far as career interests go, I do have some interest in possibly going into academia or high-level business work at some point if the opportunity arises after biglaw. Harvard's name would be advantageous in both of those fields. In addition, I think that Harvard's LIPP program provides enough of a reliable safety net that I really dont see much of a possibility for a catastrophic outcome (by 2014 the income scale should rise to a level where below 50k means they cover all your loans).

Flying home from ASW I really thought about it and in 30 years I really dont see myself thinking back and wishing I made more money when I was younger. Honestly, I dont think I would regret going to any of these schools. Still, I enjoyed my visit to Cambridge and I believe that Harvard offers some benefits beyond finances that makes up for the difference in aid offers between the schools.

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby BlakcMajikc » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:13 am

tkgrrett wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?

I'd love to hear why.


Disclaimer: I come from a low income family so I am probably looking at a max grant of around 30k from Harvard so that probably changes the calculus compared to what most people here face. I havent received my official aid offer yet so all this could change if there was some kind of shocking surprise.

First off, I'll be the first to admit that from a purely financial standpoint there will probably be no net gain(and somewhat likely a net loss) from me choosing Harvard over T-10 full rides. Anyone who argues otherwise is being ridiculous. That said, I really don't anticipate being impoverished after graduating from any of the 4 schools. It basically comes down to how much I value the ~60-70k savings. Assuming I get biglaw at 160k, on a 10 yr. payment plan the debt from Harvard would lead to me making about 70-75k/yr after taxes and loan payments while the full rides would likely put me in the 80-88k/yr range. At those income levels, I just dont think think the money means that much to me. Im not the type of person who gets more value from having a $65,000 bmw instead of a $45,000 one or who would enjoy a $3,000/month apt. less than a $4,000/month apartment. Basically, there is simply a threshold income that I find completely acceptable, which all four schools would probably meet, and the value of the money decreases past that point.

On the other hand, b/c of my background I do get some value out of simply going to Harvard. I come from a poorer background and in many ways my attendance kind of validates my family's work raising me, the extra effort teachers put in helping me, and the time that other mentors took out of their day to show me the ropes. As far as career interests go, I do have some interest in possibly going into academia or high-level business work at some point if the opportunity arises after biglaw. Harvard's name would be advantageous in both of those fields. In addition, I think that Harvard's LIPP program provides enough of a reliable safety net that I really dont see much of a possibility for a catastrophic outcome (by 2014 the income scale should rise to a level where below 50k means they cover all your loans).

Flying home from ASW I really thought about it and in 30 years I really dont see myself thinking back and wishing I made more money when I was younger. Honestly, I dont think I would regret going to any of these schools. Still, I enjoyed my visit to Cambridge and I believe that Harvard offers some benefits beyond finances that makes up for the difference in aid offers between the schools.


Thanks for your honesty. In a similar situation with the opportunities available. I am also deciding between full rides at Michigan and Virginia (waiting on the rest of the T-14 minus the cali schools). I am leaning Harvard, but waiting until all of my visits to rule out anything. This is the best toughest decision ever.

+1 for me for the bold section.

I also feel like the investment that others (family, mentors, "secondary mothers") have made in me puts a little pressure on choosing Harvard. My family cried when I got in. My aunt had to pull over in her car because her eyes were two blurry.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:21 am

BlakcMajikc wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
Non-Chalant1 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?

I'd love to hear why.


Disclaimer: I come from a low income family so I am probably looking at a max grant of around 30k from Harvard so that probably changes the calculus compared to what most people here face. I havent received my official aid offer yet so all this could change if there was some kind of shocking surprise.

First off, I'll be the first to admit that from a purely financial standpoint there will probably be no net gain(and somewhat likely a net loss) from me choosing Harvard over T-10 full rides. Anyone who argues otherwise is being ridiculous. That said, I really don't anticipate being impoverished after graduating from any of the 4 schools. It basically comes down to how much I value the ~60-70k savings. Assuming I get biglaw at 160k, on a 10 yr. payment plan the debt from Harvard would lead to me making about 70-75k/yr after taxes and loan payments while the full rides would likely put me in the 80-88k/yr range. At those income levels, I just dont think think the money means that much to me. Im not the type of person who gets more value from having a $65,000 bmw instead of a $45,000 one or who would enjoy a $3,000/month apt. less than a $4,000/month apartment. Basically, there is simply a threshold income that I find completely acceptable, which all four schools would probably meet, and the value of the money decreases past that point.

On the other hand, b/c of my background I do get some value out of simply going to Harvard. I come from a poorer background and in many ways my attendance kind of validates my family's work raising me, the extra effort teachers put in helping me, and the time that other mentors took out of their day to show me the ropes. As far as career interests go, I do have some interest in possibly going into academia or high-level business work at some point if the opportunity arises after biglaw. Harvard's name would be advantageous in both of those fields. In addition, I think that Harvard's LIPP program provides enough of a reliable safety net that I really dont see much of a possibility for a catastrophic outcome (by 2014 the income scale should rise to a level where below 50k means they cover all your loans).

Flying home from ASW I really thought about it and in 30 years I really dont see myself thinking back and wishing I made more money when I was younger. Honestly, I dont think I would regret going to any of these schools. Still, I enjoyed my visit to Cambridge and I believe that Harvard offers some benefits beyond finances that makes up for the difference in aid offers between the schools.


Thanks for your honesty. In a similar situation with the opportunities available. I am also deciding between full rides at Michigan and Virginia (waiting on the rest of the T-14 minus the cali schools). I am leaning Harvard, but waiting until all of my visits to rule out anything. This is the best toughest decision ever.

+1 for me for the bold section.

I also feel like the investment that others (family, mentors, "secondary mothers") have made in me puts a little pressure on choosing Harvard. My family cried when I got in. My aunt had to pull over in her car because her eyes were two blurry.

Your reasons, both of yours (garret especially)...sound like why I'd have to go if I got in. I'm happy to know I'm not the only one like this. I hope I get to join you all next year.

Melvin
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Melvin » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:41 am

Very similar reasoning for me although I will take out loans for everything plus more at Harvard. And my husband and I will have to maintain two households. Rough 3 years but it will work out in the end.

jd20132013
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby jd20132013 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:06 am

The reasons you stated are very compelling tk and I see a lot of my situation there as well.

I know that even if they didn't say it my parents would be disappointed if I didn't go to Harvard.

I mean I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be, but they're the only ones I'd really want to not let down.

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Moxie
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Moxie » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:07 am

tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?


I made a similar decision last year, HLS over Darrow at Michigan. I got some (15-20k in grants from HLS, since I'm also from a very low income family).

Honestly I don't regret the decision in the least, particularly since I did very well first semester. And while you're debating income levels out of both HLS and the full-ride schools, you've got to keep in mind that odds of getting the 160k job you assume are still higher at HLS. And it sounds like that small difference in financial gain won't make much difference to you. HLS opens more doors at the top of the class than UMich, and IMO that's worth it. Plus, prestige is always good, HLS' name carries a lot of weight outside of the legal world (as I'm seeing since I may not actually enter the legal field when I graduate).

Finally, one small note, I know quite a few HLS URMs who have 1L SAs (myself included), and with better odds of that, you could take another 25-30k off your debt level.

In summary - visit the schools, but all else equal, HLS' prestige and employment opportunities usually make it worth it.

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20121109
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby 20121109 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:32 am

Moxie wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Im pretty sure Ive decided to take Harvard over full rides at UVA, UMich and UC-Berk. Any interest in me posting my line of reasoning?


I made a similar decision last year, HLS over Darrow at Michigan. I got some (15-20k in grants from HLS, since I'm also from a very low income family).

Honestly I don't regret the decision in the least, particularly since I did very well first semester. And while you're debating income levels out of both HLS and the full-ride schools, you've got to keep in mind that odds of getting the 160k job you assume are still higher at HLS. And it sounds like that small difference in financial gain won't make much difference to you. HLS opens more doors at the top of the class than UMich, and IMO that's worth it. Plus, prestige is always good, HLS' name carries a lot of weight outside of the legal world (as I'm seeing since I may not actually enter the legal field when I graduate).

Finally, one small note, I know quite a few HLS URMs who have 1L SAs (myself included), and with better odds of that, you could take another 25-30k off your debt level.

In summary - visit the schools, but all else equal, HLS' prestige and employment opportunities usually make it worth it.


Just to qualify this...most URMs I know with 1L SA positions got them through previous SEO contacts. This is not to say that you can't get one based on grades alone...but just that most firms only hire 1 or 2 1Ls for the summer, unless they offer diversity fellowships/programs. I went to a Sullivan & Cromwell lunch a few weeks ago, and all of the panelists summered after 1L at the firm because of the SEO connections they made the previous summer.

Lesson of the tale - if you get into SEO, you better make those contacts. You are essentially setting yourself up to limit your debt after your first year of law school.

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Fresh
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Fresh » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:39 am

It's funny how many of us URMs are from similar backgrounds (coming from little and working hard to make it to where we have, with great guidance along the way). Just to update my goings on:
-HLS wowed me. My thoughts after leaving were "Now I get why it's Harvard." I loved it there, and the financial burden of attending was really put into a perspective that I actually understood
-Excited for Michigan ASW; this weekend will be a huge (probably biggest) step in my decision-making process
-Hope to know where I'll go by the end of this month; horses in the race are Chicago, Michigan, HLS, Stanford, and [the waning possibility of] Yale

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pixytree
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby pixytree » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:28 pm

Fresh wrote:It's funny how many of us URMs are from similar backgrounds (coming from little and working hard to make it to where we have, with great guidance along the way). Just to update my goings on:
-HLS wowed me. My thoughts after leaving were "Now I get why it's Harvard." I loved it there, and the financial burden of attending was really put into a perspective that I actually understood
-Excited for Michigan ASW; this weekend will be a huge (probably biggest) step in my decision-making process
-Hope to know where I'll go by the end of this month; horses in the race are Chicago, Michigan, HLS, Stanford, and [the waning possibility of] Yale


I'll be at Michigan's ASW this weekend too! Deciding between Michigan, UVA, NYU and Boalt.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby LAWLAW09 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:04 pm

I hope the "YHS vs. T14 full ride" posters decide not to edit all their posts once their cycles are done. The dilemma of T14 full ride vs YHS is common enough that future generations would benefit greatly from reading your thoughts, on the considerations raised in the previous couple of posts, 1-5 years from now.

It also should prove to be helpful (for you and "them" if posts are saved and turned into personal records) when yall are giving advice to 0L's 10,15,20 years from now when your careers and families are more established.

Just something to consider good ppl.

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DukeCornell
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby DukeCornell » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:24 pm

southernsnapp wrote:
DukeCornell wrote:
RJ127 wrote:
southernsnapp wrote:Cornell! 3.5, 157


Major congrats!


I still haven't heard from Cornell :cry: , but I got into UVA and Emory on the same day.


great! i wish i had applied to Emory, but I didnt get a fee waiver and felt like I wouldnt get in


Have you decided on Cornell? If so, we could quite possibly be schoolmates, that's if I get in. :lol:

rundoxierun
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:43 pm

Moxie wrote:
Finally, one small note, I know quite a few HLS URMs who have 1L SAs (myself included), and with better odds of that, you could take another 25-30k off your debt level.
In summary - visit the schools, but all else equal, HLS' prestige and employment opportunities usually make it worth it.


Unfortunately, the worst element about Harvard's financial aid policy is that significant summer earnings absolutely destroy any grant aid you planned on getting. For instance, making 30k in NYC over 10 weeks would reduce grants for the next year by ~$14,400. After taxes and housing/living expenses you would be lucky to end up with 2-3k leftover from your summer job. For grant recipients, summer employment is financially worthless. The only hope for reducing loans is to get an SA that comes with a big scholarship.

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20121109
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby 20121109 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:36 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
Moxie wrote:
Finally, one small note, I know quite a few HLS URMs who have 1L SAs (myself included), and with better odds of that, you could take another 25-30k off your debt level.
In summary - visit the schools, but all else equal, HLS' prestige and employment opportunities usually make it worth it.


Unfortunately, the worst element about Harvard's financial aid policy is that significant summer earnings absolutely destroy any grant aid you planned on getting. For instance, making 30k in NYC over 10 weeks would reduce grants for the next year by ~$14,400. After taxes and housing/living expenses you would be lucky to end up with 2-3k leftover from your summer job. For grant recipients, summer employment is financially worthless. The only hope for reducing loans is to get an SA that comes with a big scholarship.


Good point. Most 1Ls deliberately decide to do public sector work and get SPIF (Summer Public Interest Funding) from Harvard for the summer.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby yngblkgifted » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:25 pm

First of all, congrats to all of you! There has been some serious awesomeness on this thread recently!

Secondly, for anyone who was held at Harvard, did you send them additional information? Also, is being held like a soft rejection?

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blacklawboss
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby blacklawboss » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:34 pm

I am getting antsy. I applied kinda late in cycle early to mid Jan. Only heard from 2 schools so far both positive, but I'm still dangling in the wind from the big boys. At this point I want some acceptances or rejections! let me know something. :evil:

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law_monkey
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby law_monkey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:40 pm

yngblkgifted wrote:First of all, congrats to all of you! There has been some serious awesomeness on this thread recently!

Secondly, for anyone who was held at Harvard, did you send them additional information? Also, is being held like a soft rejection?


A few holds this cycle got JR1s, but a lot of them looked like they shouldn't have had one in the first place. Last year most of the holds became waitlists. A lot of people sent in LOCIs. I'm going there in person next week, so I'm also going to drop off an update about some pending deadlines I have. Basically it's worth a try because it's Harvard, but we're getting later in the cycle now when there are fewer seats left.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby yngblkgifted » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:40 pm

blacklawboss wrote:I am getting antsy. I applied kinda late in cycle early to mid Jan. Only heard from 2 schools so far both positive, but I'm still dangling in the wind from the big boys. At this point I want some acceptances or rejections! let me know something. :evil:


Dude I'm right there with you. Even though I have heard some great things so far, I would like some definitive decisions from like 6 schools. (These are schools that I applied to in late November/early December)

I am so tired of checking my email every 15 minutes or so. It is driving me insane! At this point I don't care what they say, I just WANT NEED TO KNOW!

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yngblkgifted
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby yngblkgifted » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:44 pm

law_monkey wrote:
yngblkgifted wrote:First of all, congrats to all of you! There has been some serious awesomeness on this thread recently!

Secondly, for anyone who was held at Harvard, did you send them additional information? Also, is being held like a soft rejection?


A few holds this cycle got JR1s, but a lot of them looked like they shouldn't have had one in the first place. Last year most of the holds became waitlists. A lot of people sent in LOCIs. I'm going there in person next week, so I'm also going to drop off an update about some pending deadlines I have. Basically it's worth a try because it's Harvard, but we're getting later in the cycle now when there are fewer seats left.


Thanks law_monkey. I think that have I come to terms with the fact that I won't be going to Harvard. lol. I guess I can send in an LOCI and they will also get an updated version of my transcript very soon. I still am praying that Stanford or Columbia come through. Yale is just a pipe dream. I already know what they are going to say. :|

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blacklawboss
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby blacklawboss » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:13 pm

yngblkgifted wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:I am getting antsy. I applied kinda late in cycle early to mid Jan. Only heard from 2 schools so far both positive, but I'm still dangling in the wind from the big boys. At this point I want some acceptances or rejections! let me know something. :evil:


Dude I'm right there with you. Even though I have heard some great things so far, I would like some definitive decisions from like 6 schools. (These are schools that I applied to in late November/early December)

I am so tired of checking my email every 15 minutes or so. It is driving me insane! At this point I don't care what they say, I just WANT NEED TO KNOW!


EXACTLY! this status checker thing is a gift and a curse! I even check my mailbox now just in case the mail comes faster than the status checker updates

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Zabini
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Zabini » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:57 pm

Just got my first decision of the cycle - ding from Berkeley

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:00 pm

law_monkey wrote:
yngblkgifted wrote:First of all, congrats to all of you! There has been some serious awesomeness on this thread recently!

Secondly, for anyone who was held at Harvard, did you send them additional information? Also, is being held like a soft rejection?


A few holds this cycle got JR1s, but a lot of them looked like they shouldn't have had one in the first place. Last year most of the holds became waitlists. A lot of people sent in LOCIs. I'm going there in person next week, so I'm also going to drop off an update about some pending deadlines I have. Basically it's worth a try because it's Harvard, but we're getting later in the cycle now when there are fewer seats left.

You don't think you're doing a little too much? lying out to Harvard just because? It's bold, but I hope you were already going to be there. Because I'm never booking a flight across the country just to throw in an update for a school...but then again...that's just me.


P.S. McGeorge STOP EMAILING ME!

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r2b2ct
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Re: URM 2010-2011 Application Cycle

Postby r2b2ct » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:12 pm

blacklawboss wrote:I am getting antsy. I applied kinda late in cycle early to mid Jan. Only heard from 2 schools so far both positive, but I'm still dangling in the wind from the big boys. At this point I want some acceptances or rejections! let me know something. :evil:

I'm in the same situation. Applied late and only heard from 2 schools - UMN and GWU. Both acceptances. I also got an interview invite from GULC. Still waiting on 6 or 7 schools...




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