How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

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andythefir

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How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby andythefir » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:47 pm

I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere on the forum but I can't find a post on how to follow up on the advice of establishing a cultural connection to a Native American culture. I have a European grandmother and I don't have a card (have the lineage but ancestors lived off the grid so no birth/death/census records) so I am aware I may come across as a box checker but I have identified as native my whole life. I go to a majority non-white school so I have never felt a need to join a native organization. Should my DS be about what it's like to be native? How can I overcome the appearance of being a box-checker?

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merichard87

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby merichard87 » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:57 pm

It sounds like you are a box-checker. No not really but why haven't you formed any type of connection to your culture?

Have you ever been to a culture based org meeting? tribal ceremony? museum? Anything?

andythefir

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby andythefir » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:27 pm

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I have been to museums, monuments, and several reservations in addition to being knowledgeable about my tribe. Are these the kinds of things that distinguish someone who identifies as a native from someone who is just trying to get an admissions boost?

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:29 pm

If you have a tribal card I think you will get a boost no matter what.

If you don't get one then I don't think you will receive that large of a boost.

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thecilent

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby thecilent » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:29 pm

andythefir wrote:Sorry, I should have been more clear. I have been to museums, monuments, and several reservations in addition to being knowledgeable about my tribe. Are these the kinds of things that distinguish someone who identifies as a native from someone who is just trying to get an admissions boost?


Yeah. Why don;t you write a DS about your tribe, their beliefs, and how it has impacted your life..

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MrKappus

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby MrKappus » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:35 pm

andythefir wrote:Sorry, I should have been more clear. I have been to museums, monuments, and several reservations in addition to being knowledgeable about my tribe. Are these the kinds of things that distinguish someone who identifies as a native from someone who is just trying to get an admissions boost?


I thought what you said about your immersion in your culture (i.e., attending a non-white school and feeling no need to register) was pretty compelling, and I doubt you'd come across as a box checker if you otherwise demonstrate a connection to your heritage.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Pip » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:47 pm

andythefir wrote:I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere on the forum but I can't find a post on how to follow up on the advice of establishing a cultural connection to a Native American culture. I have a European grandmother and I don't have a card (have the lineage but ancestors lived off the grid so no birth/death/census records) so I am aware I may come across as a box checker but I have identified as native my whole life. I go to a majority non-white school so I have never felt a need to join a native organization. Should my DS be about what it's like to be native? How can I overcome the appearance of being a box-checker?


No CIB card no boost. Some schools will even ask for you to verify that you are a tribal member. I know for a fact that Harvard asked a member of a tribe for their Dawes role number, which was quite stupid since the Dawes roles were closed so long ago that anyone actually on the role is dead... but the admissions clearly wanted some sort of verifiable evidence of tribal membership. So do yourself a favor and either get a card or don't bother putting it down. If you put it down and they ask for proof you will really look stupid with nothing.

You should be able to trace back your ancestors. I know you say that your relatives were off the grid, but Indians in this country were well documented as they were marched from their homes to reservations. You also come across more like a box checker when you say "Native American".... tribal members don't normally call themselves "Native Americans" they normally say that they are a Creek, Cherokee or whatever tribe they are... I know a good many "Native Americans" that would ask you if you were a "non-Native American" if a white referred to them as "Native American", in other words it is an insult... The only Indians that call themselves "Native Americans" tend to the ones that have CIB cards but no nothing about the tribal culture, the are just box checkers with a card.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby *devo* » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:10 am

Pip wrote:
andythefir wrote:I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere on the forum but I can't find a post on how to follow up on the advice of establishing a cultural connection to a Native American culture. I have a European grandmother and I don't have a card (have the lineage but ancestors lived off the grid so no birth/death/census records) so I am aware I may come across as a box checker but I have identified as native my whole life. I go to a majority non-white school so I have never felt a need to join a native organization. Should my DS be about what it's like to be native? How can I overcome the appearance of being a box-checker?


No CIB card no boost. Some schools will even ask for you to verify that you are a tribal member. I know for a fact that Harvard asked a member of a tribe for their Dawes role number, which was quite stupid since the Dawes roles were closed so long ago that anyone actually on the role is dead... but the admissions clearly wanted some sort of verifiable evidence of tribal membership. So do yourself a favor and either get a card or don't bother putting it down. If you put it down and they ask for proof you will really look stupid with nothing.

You should be able to trace back your ancestors. I know you say that your relatives were off the grid, but Indians in this country were well documented as they were marched from their homes to reservations. You also come across more like a box checker when you say "Native American".... tribal members don't normally call themselves "Native Americans" they normally say that they are a Creek, Cherokee or whatever tribe they are... I know a good many "Native Americans" that would ask you if you were a "non-Native American" if a white referred to them as "Native American", in other words it is an insult... The only Indians that call themselves "Native Americans" tend to the ones that have CIB cards but no nothing about the tribal culture, the are just box checkers with a card.


I'm sure you think you know what you are talking about, but you don't. There are plenty of Native Americans that refer to themselves as Native American or American Indian. There is a Native American Law Student Association for crying out loud.

As for the idea that no card = no boost, it is simply false. Some schools may ask for your tribal affiliation and number, but that is only because Native Americans are the only minority group that keeps track of such things. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for not have an enrollment number and OP has one. One's cultural identity is more complicated than a tribal enrollment card, which you acknowledged with your purported knowledge of Native American lingo. OP should check the box, write the diversity statement, and let the admissions committee decide whether he gets a boost and, if so, how much.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby andythefir » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:37 am

Wow it sounds like there is a huge amount of variation among the various schools. Do any schools look for anything specific?

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Pip » Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:58 am

*devo* wrote:
Pip wrote:
andythefir wrote:I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere on the forum but I can't find a post on how to follow up on the advice of establishing a cultural connection to a Native American culture. I have a European grandmother and I don't have a card (have the lineage but ancestors lived off the grid so no birth/death/census records) so I am aware I may come across as a box checker but I have identified as native my whole life. I go to a majority non-white school so I have never felt a need to join a native organization. Should my DS be about what it's like to be native? How can I overcome the appearance of being a box-checker?


No CIB card no boost. Some schools will even ask for you to verify that you are a tribal member. I know for a fact that Harvard asked a member of a tribe for their Dawes role number, which was quite stupid since the Dawes roles were closed so long ago that anyone actually on the role is dead... but the admissions clearly wanted some sort of verifiable evidence of tribal membership. So do yourself a favor and either get a card or don't bother putting it down. If you put it down and they ask for proof you will really look stupid with nothing.

You should be able to trace back your ancestors. I know you say that your relatives were off the grid, but Indians in this country were well documented as they were marched from their homes to reservations. You also come across more like a box checker when you say "Native American".... tribal members don't normally call themselves "Native Americans" they normally say that they are a Creek, Cherokee or whatever tribe they are... I know a good many "Native Americans" that would ask you if you were a "non-Native American" if a white referred to them as "Native American", in other words it is an insult... The only Indians that call themselves "Native Americans" tend to the ones that have CIB cards but no nothing about the tribal culture, the are just box checkers with a card.


I'm sure you think you know what you are talking about, but you don't. There are plenty of Native Americans that refer to themselves as Native American or American Indian. There is a Native American Law Student Association for crying out loud.

As for the idea that no card = no boost, it is simply false. Some schools may ask for your tribal affiliation and number, but that is only because Native Americans are the only minority group that keeps track of such things. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for not have an enrollment number and OP has one. One's cultural identity is more complicated than a tribal enrollment card, which you acknowledged with your purported knowledge of Native American lingo. OP should check the box, write the diversity statement, and let the admissions committee decide whether he gets a boost and, if so, how much.


Being a tribal member with family on and off the reservation I think I know exactly what I'm talking about. And as I said, some schools wont ask, some will. If you put it down, they ask and if you don't have it you will look like a fraud.

And don't even pretend to know what offends or doesn't offend us. You sound like one of the moronic people fighting for the school in my state to keep the school's mascot "Redskins" because they know some "Native Americans" that aren't offended. The tern "Native American" is offensive to the great majority of Indians that I know... just as the term "Redskin" is though this country even has a NFL team that uses that one. So don't believe that simply because a term is used by associations that it is not offensive.

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MrKappus

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby MrKappus » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:31 am

^ I'm about as politically correct as it gets, but I'm confused by this. How are non-NA's supposed to know tribal affiliations? And when someone references all NA's in a sentence (e.g., "NA's lived on this continent before anyone 'discovered' it"), are they supposed to list hundreds of tribes instead of saying "NA" (e.g., "Creek, Cherokees, Hopi, Apache, Algonquin, Iroquois, Oglala, .... [2 hours later speaker's done listing every NA tribe] lived on this continent before anyone 'discovered' it")?

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Stanford4Me » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:07 am

MrKappus wrote:^ I'm about as politically correct as it gets, but I'm confused by this. How are non-NA's supposed to know tribal affiliations? And when someone references all NA's in a sentence (e.g., "NA's lived on this continent before anyone 'discovered' it"), are they supposed to list hundreds of tribes instead of saying "NA" (e.g., "Creek, Cherokees, Hopi, Apache, Algonquin, Iroquois, Oglala, .... [2 hours later speaker's done listing every NA tribe] lived on this continent before anyone 'discovered' it")?

Yes.

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MrKappus

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby MrKappus » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:57 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
MrKappus wrote:^ I'm about as politically correct as it gets, but I'm confused by this. How are non-NA's supposed to know tribal affiliations? And when someone references all NA's in a sentence (e.g., "NA's lived on this continent before anyone 'discovered' it"), are they supposed to list hundreds of tribes instead of saying "NA" (e.g., "Creek, Cherokees, Hopi, Apache, Algonquin, Iroquois, Oglala, .... [2 hours later speaker's done listing every NA tribe] lived on this continent before anyone 'discovered' it")?

I think that poster is saying that Natives tend to identify themselves as the name of their people, not the blanket name given to a larger group of people. For example, I tend to say that I am Ojibwe considerably more often than I say I am Native, (which I say FAR more often than "Native American").


What you say makes sense to me, and if I know someone (and his/her tribal affiliation), I'll make every effort to use that when I refer to him/her.

But that poster definitely did NOT say "Natives tend to ID themselves as the name of their people," as you said. He said "The tern "Native American" is offensive to the great majority of Indians that I know..." and then he said calling someone an "NA" was the same as calling that person a "Redskin." My post is slightly off-topic (though it is a response to Pip's post), but if what Pip says is true I don't want to say "NA" anymore. So that's what I was trying to find out: if "NA" is as offensive to, um, indigenous (?) people of this continent as the name of DC's football team.

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MrKappus

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby MrKappus » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:04 pm

Cartographer, right? :) Anyway, I won't do that anymore...thx for fielding the questions!

/hijack

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thrillhouse

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby thrillhouse » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:04 pm

It's way too late to force a connection. Just write about what you know and it'll either look authentic or not.

As for what to call us: I've never met an Indian who used the term "Native American." We say Indian or the actual tribe name or in rarer cases, native (usually to refer to another Indian whose tribe we don't know). The only people I've ever heard use Native American are non-Indians trying to be careful to be PC. From an Indian's perspective, any of those terms will do just fine.
Last edited by thrillhouse on Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby NoJob » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:08 pm

andythefir wrote:I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere on the forum but I can't find a post on how to follow up on the advice of establishing a cultural connection to a Native American culture. I have a European grandmother and I don't have a card (have the lineage but ancestors lived off the grid so no birth/death/census records) so I am aware I may come across as a box checker but I have identified as native my whole life. I go to a majority non-white school so I have never felt a need to join a native organization. Should my DS be about what it's like to be native? How can I overcome the appearance of being a box-checker?


To paraphrase Bill Maher, if you have to tell me what fraction Indian you are, you are not Indian.

In your case, if you can't even get a CDIB, you are not Indian. For that all u need is one ancestor from sometime in American history appearing on one Indian roll. Are u seriously telling me that you are unable to produce that? Then, u are not Indian.

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thrillhouse

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby thrillhouse » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:34 am

NoJob wrote:To paraphrase Bill Maher, if you have to tell me what fraction Indian you are, you are not Indian.


There are several varieties of stupid wrapped in those very few words above.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Pip » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:07 pm

NoJob wrote:In your case, if you can't even get a CDIB, you are not Indian. For that all u need is one ancestor from sometime in American history appearing on one Indian roll. Are u seriously telling me that you are unable to produce that? Then, u are not Indian.


I would agree. 30 years ago the US government issued the CDIB cards, and there was a possibility that someone that was a tribal member could have had difficulty getting a CDIB card, but the process in recent times is different. The current process for getting a CDIB card is done through the tribes, the tribes determine if you are a tribal member and do the work to insure that tribal members get their CDIB card.... in this method there is no reason a tribal member wouldn't have a CDIB card and if you aren't accepted by the tribe as a tribal member it becomes rather silly to claim you are an Indian.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Flett » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:21 pm

Pip wrote:
NoJob wrote:In your case, if you can't even get a CDIB, you are not Indian. For that all u need is one ancestor from sometime in American history appearing on one Indian roll. Are u seriously telling me that you are unable to produce that? Then, u are not Indian.


I would agree. 30 years ago the US government issued the CDIB cards, and there was a possibility that someone that was a tribal member could have had difficulty getting a CDIB card, but the process in recent times is different. The current process for getting a CDIB card is done through the tribes, the tribes determine if you are a tribal member and do the work to insure that tribal members get their CDIB card.... in this method there is no reason a tribal member wouldn't have a CDIB card and if you aren't accepted by the tribe as a tribal member it becomes rather silly to claim you are an Indian.


Nightrunner hit the nail right on the head.

It's not necessarily silly to to claim that you are Native if you don't have an enrollment card or Certificate of Indian blood. Depending on the enrollment guidelines for the particular tribe, my own Spokane tribe included, there is the possibility of individuals being 1/4 Native or more and still being unable to qualify for enrollment. I know several people who fall in this category as well. They still identify as being Native and I think they should. They sing, dance, live on the rez and eat fry bread like any other member of the tribe. I feel if you can speak to the heritage then you shouldn't be discouraged from claiming it.

Though that does make me wonder... does anyone have any ideas how admissions would work for an individual who is NOT enrolled but IS able to provide a CIB from the tribe stating that they are a 1st/2nd/whatever line descendant? Boost/smaller boost/no boost? Just curious.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Flett » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:35 pm

Nightrunner wrote:To be honest, Flett, I'm not sure anyone can even say how admissions works for Native applicants in general, let alone delineated by "tribal membership v CDIB but no membership v. self-identified w/o paperwork." In some cases, an Indian has an application cycle that seems to be strictly in line with their numbers, with no discernible URM bump. In other cases, you'll find someone drastically outperforming their admissions numbers.

Add in the extra variability of "to what degree our admissions cycles are influenced by essays, letters, work experience (etc.)" and the tiny, tiny sample size...and when it comes down to it, no one can really say anything for certain.


Good points. Thanks for the response.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Pip » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:11 am

Flett wrote: They sing, dance, live on the rez and eat fry bread like any other member of the tribe. I feel if you can speak to the heritage then you shouldn't be discouraged from claiming it.


Of course if you are really in tune with your heritage you would also know that making the assumption that eating fry bread has the same relevance as dance is rather silly... Fry bread is no more an Indian thing than fajitas are a Mexican thing... Fry Bread would only have any ties to the Navajo and considering it was the equivalent of bread and water given to a person in prison I'm not sure its something they would want to even be associated if they had a choice.

I know people from Mexico that like fajitas but it isn't a food from Mexico and fry bread is not an Indian food simply because Indians eat it... They also sell funnel cakes at pow wows too along with corn dogs but I don't think you can really claim funnel cakes and corn dogs are an Indian food just because its sold by people trying to commercialize a pow wow.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby llama11 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:52 pm

Pip wrote:
NoJob wrote:In your case, if you can't even get a CDIB, you are not Indian. For that all u need is one ancestor from sometime in American history appearing on one Indian roll. Are u seriously telling me that you are unable to produce that? Then, u are not Indian.


I would agree. 30 years ago the US government issued the CDIB cards, and there was a possibility that someone that was a tribal member could have had difficulty getting a CDIB card, but the process in recent times is different. The current process for getting a CDIB card is done through the tribes, the tribes determine if you are a tribal member and do the work to insure that tribal members get their CDIB card.... in this method there is no reason a tribal member wouldn't have a CDIB card and if you aren't accepted by the tribe as a tribal member it becomes rather silly to claim you are an Indian.


What about the people who, back in the day, refused to register themselves with the various rolls? Lots of people hid away and avoided these kinds of things. Taking it a little further, a CDIB is not necessarily reflective of any actual quantum. Lots of times people of mixed heritage were just considered 'full-bloods' for the purpose of simplicity. I'm not really sure there are that many tribal populations that can say '100% FBI' because most places are so mixed, save perhaps some Seminole families, maybe Navajo and Apache and a few other groups. But I do agree on the sentiment anyway about fry bread. As for the use of the term 'native', I use it to generically refer to other tribes. In academia, the trend seems to be 'Native American' or 'American Indian'. While we can use colloquial terms amongst ourselves, it's not very convenient for other people for me to always say, "I'm anishnaabe" or "I'm haudenosaaunee".

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Pip » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:57 pm

llama11 wrote:What about the people who, back in the day, refused to register themselves with the various rolls? Lots of people hid away and avoided these kinds of things. Taking it a little further, a CDIB is not necessarily reflective of any actual quantum. Lots of times people of mixed heritage were just considered 'full-bloods' for the purpose of simplicity. I'm not really sure there are that many tribal populations that can say '100% FBI' because most places are so mixed, save perhaps some Seminole families, maybe Navajo and Apache and a few other groups. But I do agree on the sentiment anyway about fry bread. As for the use of the term 'native', I use it to generically refer to other tribes. In academia, the trend seems to be 'Native American' or 'American Indian'. While we can use colloquial terms amongst ourselves, it's not very convenient for other people for me to always say, "I'm anishnaabe" or "I'm haudenosaaunee".


Not being familiar with the various tribes across the US, I can only speak with certainty about the ones I'm familiar with... In some places like Oklahoma where the only Indians there are the ones that were moved there by the US government, all were bagged and tagged so to speak. If they were moved here they were counted and listed... so for Indians that were victims of forced migration there is unlikely to be any that were not accounted for on the early rolls. Now it is sometimes difficult to trace yourself back to that person long since dead but it can be done through various records of birth and death...

I assume you speak from knowledge of Indians around the Great Lakes, FBIs might be rare there... In Oklahoma FBIs are not common but are far from rare... you also have the precise quantum, if you were born to a FBI Creek and a 1/2 blood Osage your CDIB card would say 1/2 Creek 1/4 Osage.... The BIA was very precise around here, though they never bothered to mention what the missing parts were they were always very specific in the quantum and which tribe it was from. I suspect because some tribes were allocated money from oil and gas royalties while others were not.

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Flett » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:40 pm

Pip wrote:
Flett wrote: They sing, dance, live on the rez and eat fry bread like any other member of the tribe. I feel if you can speak to the heritage then you shouldn't be discouraged from claiming it.


Of course if you are really in tune with your heritage you would also know that making the assumption that eating fry bread has the same relevance as dance is rather silly... Fry bread is no more an Indian thing than fajitas are a Mexican thing... Fry Bread would only have any ties to the Navajo and considering it was the equivalent of bread and water given to a person in prison I'm not sure its something they would want to even be associated if they had a choice.

I know people from Mexico that like fajitas but it isn't a food from Mexico and fry bread is not an Indian food simply because Indians eat it... They also sell funnel cakes at pow wows too along with corn dogs but I don't think you can really claim funnel cakes and corn dogs are an Indian food just because its sold by people trying to commercialize a pow wow.


True. It's also true about the funnel cake and corn dogs at pow wow. However, of all the foods common at gatherings here, especially general council meetings and funerals, it's fry bread and salmon on my followed closely by dumplings and dried meat (but daaaang those pow wow funnel cakes are good too). Of course fry bread does not have the same significance as dance, I did not mean to portray it that way and it's my fault that it came across like that. But not everyone dances or sings. Plenty of people sit in the stands, with their fry bread, watching the dancers. Thus fry bread can be a common factor where I am from. Original? No. But we love it all the same.

As for the Navajo... well, I am not a Navajo. I don't know how they feel about fry bread. What bears significance or not to the Navajo is not all encompassing for all tribes. Just as what the Spokane tribe prefers is not true of the Navajo or any other tribe. I apologize if you took my previous over generalization offensively. It was not intended. =)

And I'm getting too off topic here. Sorry. =(

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Re: How do I establish a Native cultural connection?

Postby Pip » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:17 pm

Flett wrote:
Pip wrote:
Flett wrote: They sing, dance, live on the rez and eat fry bread like any other member of the tribe. I feel if you can speak to the heritage then you shouldn't be discouraged from claiming it.


Of course if you are really in tune with your heritage you would also know that making the assumption that eating fry bread has the same relevance as dance is rather silly... Fry bread is no more an Indian thing than fajitas are a Mexican thing... Fry Bread would only have any ties to the Navajo and considering it was the equivalent of bread and water given to a person in prison I'm not sure its something they would want to even be associated if they had a choice.

I know people from Mexico that like fajitas but it isn't a food from Mexico and fry bread is not an Indian food simply because Indians eat it... They also sell funnel cakes at pow wows too along with corn dogs but I don't think you can really claim funnel cakes and corn dogs are an Indian food just because its sold by people trying to commercialize a pow wow.


True. It's also true about the funnel cake and corn dogs at pow wow. However, of all the foods common at gatherings here, especially general council meetings and funerals, it's fry bread and salmon on my followed closely by dumplings and dried meat (but daaaang those pow wow funnel cakes are good too). Of course fry bread does not have the same significance as dance, I did not mean to portray it that way and it's my fault that it came across like that. But not everyone dances or sings. Plenty of people sit in the stands, with their fry bread, watching the dancers. Thus fry bread can be a common factor where I am from. Original? No. But we love it all the same.

As for the Navajo... well, I am not a Navajo. I don't know how they feel about fry bread. What bears significance or not to the Navajo is not all encompassing for all tribes. Just as what the Spokane tribe prefers is not true of the Navajo or any other tribe. I apologize if you took my previous over generalization offensively. It was not intended. =)

And I'm getting too off topic here. Sorry. =(


Not offended... simply trying to provide insight in how things are where I am. And if anyone was going to a school in the Texas/Oklahoma area those schools would be very familiar with how Indians are carded here. I suspect if an Indian from the Northwest were to come here with the CDIB card they would have difficulty in being accepted by the school as an Indian. In other parts of the country I'm sure they would not have that trouble. I can say from experience that when I applied years ago to Harvard that I was asked to provide my roll number... which showed their ignorance as the Dawes roll was closed in 1914 and anyone living that was listed on it would have been so old that law school would have been the last thing on their mind.

It is enlightening to find out how other tribes operate in other parts of the country. From earlier posts I get the impression that this is no generalization possible in how tribes accept or reject people into their tribe.



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