To the moderator/whoever knows - how much does URM matter? Forum

[hiromoto45]

DBrooks you have issues

[D Brooks]

[creatinganalt]

Furthermore, how much does an upwards grade trend matter?

UGH... not at all

Not true. I thought intangibles mattered more for URMs

[rundoxierun]

Have you people lost your mind??? 3.45/161= good shot at CCN??? Stop getting OPs hopes up. I know plenty of AAs with better numbers (3.4-3.5x/163-165) completely shut out of T14s. Those people who get in HYSCCN with 3.2x/155-163 are exceptions. Most of them 1)went to ivy league schools(kicking myself for not doing this) and/or 2)have ridiculous work/community experience.

With those numbers OP should be looking at schools in the 25-50 range as targets with a cornell and wustl plus a few others in the 10-25 range being high reaches.

[lisjjen]

Have you people lost your mind??? 3.45/161= good shot at CCN??? Stop getting OPs hopes up. I know plenty of AAs with better numbers (3.4-3.5x/163-165) completely shut out of T14s. Those people who get in with 3.2x/155-163 are exceptions. Most of them 1)went to ivy league schools(kicking myself for not doing this) and/or 2)have ridiculous work/community experience.

With those numbers OP should be looking at schools in the 25-50 range as targets with a cornell and wustl plus a few others in the 10-25 range being high reaches.

I actually felt what they were saying was quite optimistic myself. I'm going to apply ED to GULC, just because I've always Always ALWAYS wanted to go there. I got an invite so I hope that's a good sign. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to the Penn St (70's) to University of Minnesota- Twin Cities (20's) range.

[vespertiliovir]

They say that AA = 10 LSAT points, or thereabouts. A 3.45/171 has a great shot at the lower t14, and decent chances at CCN. Blanket the t14, OP -- URM cycles are really hard to predict, so you don't want to miss out on any opportunities!

[rundoxierun]

Have you people lost your mind??? 3.45/161= good shot at CCN??? Stop getting OPs hopes up. I know plenty of AAs with better numbers (3.4-3.5x/163-165) completely shut out of T14s. Those people who get in with 3.2x/155-163 are exceptions. Most of them 1)went to ivy league schools(kicking myself for not doing this) and/or 2)have ridiculous work/community experience.

With those numbers OP should be looking at schools in the 25-50 range as targets with a cornell and wustl plus a few others in the 10-25 range being high reaches.

I actually felt what they were saying was quite optimistic myself. I'm going to apply ED to GULC, just because I've always Always ALWAYS wanted to go there. I got an invite so I hope that's a good sign. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to the Penn St (70's) to University of Minnesota- Twin Cities (20's) range.

ehh be careful about ED.. I have a friend who just signed promissory notes for ~65k at one of UCLA/UT/Vandy and he is pretty scared to put it gently.

[let/them/eat/cake]

Have you people lost your mind??? 3.45/161= good shot at CCN??? Stop getting OPs hopes up. I know plenty of AAs with better numbers (3.4-3.5x/163-165) completely shut out of T14s. Those people who get in with 3.2x/155-163 are exceptions. Most of them 1)went to ivy league schools(kicking myself for not doing this) and/or 2)have ridiculous work/community experience.

With those numbers OP should be looking at schools in the 25-50 range as targets with a cornell and wustl plus a few others in the 10-25 range being high reaches.

I actually felt what they were saying was quite optimistic myself. I'm going to apply ED to GULC, just because I've always Always ALWAYS wanted to go there. I got an invite so I hope that's a good sign. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to the Penn St (70's) to University of Minnesota- Twin Cities (20's) range.

don't do any of this.

[lisjjen]

Have you people lost your mind??? 3.45/161= good shot at CCN??? Stop getting OPs hopes up. I know plenty of AAs with better numbers (3.4-3.5x/163-165) completely shut out of T14s. Those people who get in with 3.2x/155-163 are exceptions. Most of them 1)went to ivy league schools(kicking myself for not doing this) and/or 2)have ridiculous work/community experience.

With those numbers OP should be looking at schools in the 25-50 range as targets with a cornell and wustl plus a few others in the 10-25 range being high reaches.

I actually felt what they were saying was quite optimistic myself. I'm going to apply ED to GULC, just because I've always Always ALWAYS wanted to go there. I got an invite so I hope that's a good sign. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to the Penn St (70's) to University of Minnesota- Twin Cities (20's) range.

don't do any of this.

Thanks for the vagueness. What are you recommending? Apply BELOW the 70's. Even if I wasn't URM and didn't have some pretty groovy softs, I would still have a shot at the bottom tier ones.

Or did you think I meant Penn U?

[lisjjen]

Have you people lost your mind??? 3.45/161= good shot at CCN??? Stop getting OPs hopes up. I know plenty of AAs with better numbers (3.4-3.5x/163-165) completely shut out of T14s. Those people who get in with 3.2x/155-163 are exceptions. Most of them 1)went to ivy league schools(kicking myself for not doing this) and/or 2)have ridiculous work/community experience.

With those numbers OP should be looking at schools in the 25-50 range as targets with a cornell and wustl plus a few others in the 10-25 range being high reaches.

I actually felt what they were saying was quite optimistic myself. I'm going to apply ED to GULC, just because I've always Always ALWAYS wanted to go there. I got an invite so I hope that's a good sign. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to the Penn St (70's) to University of Minnesota- Twin Cities (20's) range.

ehh be careful about ED.. I have a friend who just signed promissory notes for ~65k at one of UCLA/UT/Vandy and he is pretty scared to put it gently.

65k IS a lot. I definitely get that. Which is why a put this post up to try and get other people's thoughts. Realistically though, it's difficult for me to explain how much I really want to go to GULC.

[MartianManhunter]

From what I can tell OP is a black male?

If so, OP will likely break the T20, but should apply 30 and above. Don't do silly things like shoot for ~70, you'll just be mad you wasted the application money when you go to a better school. Depending on softs, it's worth your time to shoot applications to the bottom half of the t14 (or all of them if you can afford it).

Get solid LoRs. Write every essay (PS+DS+Optionals). Make sure your essays are exceptional - seek out help and reviews from professors and/or professionals. I really feel like it matters more for us.

Edit: Also, study and retake the LSAT in October. (surprised nobody said it yet...)

[romothesavior]

Have you people lost your mind??? 3.45/161= good shot at CCN??? Stop getting OPs hopes up. I know plenty of AAs with better numbers (3.4-3.5x/163-165) completely shut out of T14s. Those people who get in with 3.2x/155-163 are exceptions. Most of them 1)went to ivy league schools(kicking myself for not doing this) and/or 2)have ridiculous work/community experience.

With those numbers OP should be looking at schools in the 25-50 range as targets with a cornell and wustl plus a few others in the 10-25 range being high reaches.

I actually felt what they were saying was quite optimistic myself. I'm going to apply ED to GULC, just because I've always Always ALWAYS wanted to go there. I got an invite so I hope that's a good sign. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to the Penn St (70's) to University of Minnesota- Twin Cities (20's) range.

don't do any of this.

Agreed. Don't do this. Apply to better schools. Penn State? ED to GULC when you are almost certainly in there? NO and NO.

[bleu]

I think we should get into the same schools. My lsat is higher but my gpa is lower. It would be interesting to see if we have the exact same cycle. Or are at least able to find out who are the gpa whores and who are the lsat whores. oh im 170/3.2AA.
Also your picture is really arousing in a heterosexual way.

[Total Litigator]

It seems like a crapshoot... If you are a URM with a compelling story you might have a chance anywhere. Law school numbers has a URM accepted at Harvard with a 155 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. On the other hand a URM was rejected from Harvard with a 165 and a 3.65.

At Georgetown on LSN.com there are quite a few URM's with your numbers.

It seems like quite the crapshoot... It seems that it wouldn't be too optimistic to say that if you peppered the T14 you should get in at least one place somewhere...

I never knew the bumps helped this much... I know I haven't lived my life dealing with racism and oppression and everything but... I'm a little jealous of anyone who can get into a T14 with T2 numbers...

[Total Litigator]

To the OP who doesn't want to risk apply any higher than Georgetown... Lawschoolnumbers.com also has a URM at Cornell with a 3.3 GPA and a 152 LSAT, a URM at Penn with 155/3.49 at Berkeley with 149/3.61, at NYU with a 148/2.9, etc. (I must be same at the rest of the T14).

However, the caveat is that URM's with OP's numbers Have been rejected from those same schools. Basically write great PS's get great rec's and boom, you have an Ivy League education.

[lisjjen]

To the OP who doesn't want to risk apply any higher than Georgetown... Lawschoolnumbers.com also has a URM at Cornell with a 3.3 GPA and a 152 LSAT, a URM at Penn with 155/3.49 at Berkeley with 149/3.61, at NYU with a 148/2.9, etc. (I must be same at the rest of the T14).

However, the caveat is that URM's with OP's numbers Have been rejected from those same schools. Basically write great PS's get great rec's and boom, you have an Ivy League education.

Exactly. Sure I'm black, but I'm not from the ghetto.

[lisjjen]

It seems like a crapshoot... If you are a URM with a compelling story you might have a chance anywhere. Law school numbers has a URM accepted at Harvard with a 155 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. On the other hand a URM was rejected from Harvard with a 165 and a 3.65.

At Georgetown on LSN.com there are quite a few URM's with your numbers.

It seems like quite the crapshoot... It seems that it wouldn't be too optimistic to say that if you peppered the T14 you should get in at least one place somewhere...

I never knew the bumps helped this much... I know I haven't lived my life dealing with racism and oppression and everything but... I'm a little jealous of anyone who can get into a T14 with T2 numbers...

Easy. Tier 2 is a little rough. I could get into your University of Utah's and such that hang out at the bottom of the Tier 1.

[romothesavior]

Exactly. SureI'm blackbut I'm not from the ghetto.

Stop right there. That's all the adcomms need to hear.

And I mean that in all seriousness and sincerity.

[thechee]

A 161 is considerably above the 99th percentile for black applicants. Your score will open plenty of doors for you. I say apply to Columbia on down. MAYBE a few safeties in the 15-20 range, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by an acceptance w/ $ in the T10.

[r2b2ct]

A 161 is considerably above the 99th percentile for black applicants. Your score will open plenty of doors for you. I say apply to Columbia on down. MAYBE a few safeties in the 15-20 range, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by an acceptance w/ $ in the T10.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I am curious where you got this figure.

[rundoxierun]

A 161 is considerably above the 99th percentile for black applicants. Your score will open plenty of doors for you. I say apply to Columbia on down. MAYBE a few safeties in the 15-20 range, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by an acceptance w/ $ in the T10.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I am curious where you got this figure.

I do disagree.. this number was pulled out of the air.

[romothesavior]

A 161 is considerably above the 99th percentile for black applicants. Your score will open plenty of doors for you. I say apply to Columbia on down. MAYBE a few safeties in the 15-20 range, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by an acceptance w/ $ in the T10.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I am curious where you got this figure.

I do disagree.. this number was pulled out of the air.

+1. How does one end up considerably above the 99th percentile, in any case?

[r2b2ct]

A 161 is considerably above the 99th percentile for black applicants. Your score will open plenty of doors for you. I say apply to Columbia on down. MAYBE a few safeties in the 15-20 range, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by an acceptance w/ $ in the T10.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I am curious where you got this figure.

I do disagree.. this number was pulled out of the air.

[lisjjen]

A 161 is considerably above the 99th percentile for black applicants. Your score will open plenty of doors for you. I say apply to Columbia on down. MAYBE a few safeties in the 15-20 range, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by an acceptance w/ $ in the T10.

I know you're trying to be encouraging but think about what you're saying. You're making it sound like black people are effing retarded. I guarantee there's plenty of black folks with LSAT's above 161. If what you say is true a) I'm smarter than every Colin Powell, Condaleezza Rice, Barack Obama, Thurgood Marshall etc. out there and b) I could EASILY get into Yale if this is the best they are able to get. I'm not comfortable with either of those conclusions.

[romothesavior]

A 161 is considerably above the 99th percentile for black applicants. Your score will open plenty of doors for you. I say apply to Columbia on down. MAYBE a few safeties in the 15-20 range, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by an acceptance w/ $ in the T10.

I know you're trying to be encouraging but think about what you're saying. You're making it sound like black people are effing retarded. I guarantee there's plenty of black folks with LSAT's above 161. If what you say is true a) I'm smarter than every Colin Powell, Condaleezza Rice, Barack Obama, Thurgood Marshall etc. out there and b) I could EASILY get into Yale if this is the best they are able to get. I'm not comfortable with either of those conclusions.

99% may be wrong, but your score is still very high for an African-American male (probably awfully darn close... 161 is about 85% for all applicants). You may be uncomfortable with that, but it is the truth.

You also seem to be uncomfortable with getting a huge URM boost because you are black but not poor or particularly disadvantaged. I can understand that sentiment, but I encourage you to look at it this way: the fact that so few African-Americans have GPA/LSAT numbers like you means that you offer more than your numbers. You offer diversity to a law school class. Hopefully someday we'll get to a point where affirmative action and URM boosts are not needed, but in the meantime, take the boost and don't look back.