URMs on Law Review

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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Doritos
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URMs on Law Review

Postby Doritos » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:24 pm

I am curious how URMs do when it comes to placement on law review (I think I know the answer). Also, I have seen at least anecdotal evidence of minority outreach for law review at some institutions (http://uclaw.blogspot.com/2008/03/law-r ... rsity.html) and I am wondering if this is something many schools do?

Locke N. Lawded
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Locke N. Lawded » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:54 pm

Doritos wrote:I am curious how URMs do when it comes to placement on law review (I think I know the answer). Also, I have seen at least anecdotal evidence of minority outreach for law review at some institutions (http://uclaw.blogspot.com/2008/03/law-r ... rsity.html) and I am wondering if this is something many schools do?


At lot of law reviews do blind submissions, so they are grading purely on the content of the note and the quality of the Blue Book quiz, etc. That is if you have to write on. So your URM status would have no effect on being selected for the journal.

Even a lot of secondary journals do blind submissions to avoid students playing favorites with their friends, and at some schools it's even an honor code violation to know the names of the applicants before grading is completed.

As for grading on, at some schools, especially T2s, URMs are scarce because many such students tend to have issues with legal writing.

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DavidYurman85
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby DavidYurman85 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:22 pm

someone in another thread mentioned that hls maintains a select number of spots for diversity.

heathbar88
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby heathbar88 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:10 pm

I really hope other law schools don't think about doing this...horrible idea.

sumus romani
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:18 pm

Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

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Kohinoor
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:13 pm

sumus romani wrote:Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

UVA is similar but requires top third, which begs the question, if I'm a URM in the top third at UVA, why would I ever bother with law review?

d34d9823
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby d34d9823 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:19 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
sumus romani wrote:Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

UVA is similar but requires top third, which begs the question, if I'm a URM in the top third at UVA, why would I ever bother with law review?

If you have ambitions beyond just a good job, you should still go for law review. It's a gold star people will look at for the rest of your life.

For all of the T14 I've seen this info on, there is a diversity quota.

bradley
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby bradley » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:22 pm

Why don't you worry about writing a good submission instead of trying to figure out if you can slack off just because of the color of your skin? Diversity quotas for Law Review are not cool. Just think of all those more worthy candidates being left off and losing employment opportunities to somebody who isn't as qualified.

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Kohinoor
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:23 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
sumus romani wrote:Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

UVA is similar but requires top third, which begs the question, if I'm a URM in the top third at UVA, why would I ever bother with law review?

If you have ambitions beyond just a good job, you should still go for law review. It's a gold star people will look at for the rest of your life.

For all of the T14 I've seen this info on, there is a diversity quota.

How are you defining quota?

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Hiei
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Hiei » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:26 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
sumus romani wrote:Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

UVA is similar but requires top third, which begs the question, if I'm a URM in the top third at UVA, why would I ever bother with law review?



For top litigation firms law review can be make or break when it comes to hiring--even for a URM in the top 1/3 of the class ( for Williams and Conolly you want law review or a secondary journal whether you are a top 1/3 URM or not). For transactional firms you are right in thinking that it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle. If I'm blessed enough to end up top 1/3 at UVA I will definitely do my best to write a personal statement good enough to get me onto Law Review. To not even try would always leave me wondering "what if?".

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LAWLAW09
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby LAWLAW09 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:29 pm

bradley wrote:Why don't you worry about writing a good submission instead of trying to figure out if you can slack off just because of the color of your skin? Diversity quotas for Law Review are not cool. Just think of all those more worthy candidates being left off and losing employment opportunities to somebody who isn't as qualified.



Smile friend. It's going to be ok.

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Hiei
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Hiei » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:30 pm

bradley wrote:Why don't you worry about writing a good submission instead of trying to figure out if you can slack off just because of the color of your skin? Diversity quotas for Law Review are not cool. Just think of all those more worthy candidates being left off and losing employment opportunities to somebody who isn't as qualified.



They are not "quotas" in the sense that you are thinking. If you meet a certain (rather high) GPA threshold then that combined with a good personal statement emphasizing your diversity may get you onto law review.

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Kohinoor
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:35 pm

Hiei wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
sumus romani wrote:Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

UVA is similar but requires top third, which begs the question, if I'm a URM in the top third at UVA, why would I ever bother with law review?



For top litigation firms law review can be make or break when it comes to hiring--even for a URM in the top 1/3 of the class ( for Williams and Conolly you want law review or a secondary journal whether you are a top 1/3 URM or not). For transactional firms you are right in thinking that it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle. If I'm blessed enough to end up top 1/3 at UVA I will definitely do my best to write a personal statement good enough to get me onto Law Review. To not even try would always leave me wondering "what if?".
But if you could get the same result from law review or a secondary journal, why choose law review and have to write a note?

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Doritos
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Doritos » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:40 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Hiei wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
sumus romani wrote:Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

UVA is similar but requires top third, which begs the question, if I'm a URM in the top third at UVA, why would I ever bother with law review?



For top litigation firms law review can be make or break when it comes to hiring--even for a URM in the top 1/3 of the class ( for Williams and Conolly you want law review or a secondary journal whether you are a top 1/3 URM or not). For transactional firms you are right in thinking that it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle. If I'm blessed enough to end up top 1/3 at UVA I will definitely do my best to write a personal statement good enough to get me onto Law Review. To not even try would always leave me wondering "what if?".
But if you could get the same result from law review or a secondary journal, why choose law review and have to write a note?



Prestige has to be a factor. Having "Notes Editor - blah blah Law Review " on your resume/firm bio looks nice

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Kohinoor
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:44 pm

Doritos wrote:Prestige has to be a factor. Having "Notes Editor - blah blah Law Review " on your resume/firm bio looks nice
So... prestige for the sake of prestige?

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Hiei
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Hiei » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:45 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Hiei wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
sumus romani wrote:Both Penn and NYU have de facto diversity quotas for LR. For each school, in addition to submitting a writing sample, you must also submit a personal statement. Some people get on to LR based primarily on their personal statements. At least at NYU, for a student to be eligible for LR because of his or her personal statement, he or she must be in a certain percentage of the over for grades and writing submission (something around top %50 or so). So it is not just the personal statement that gets one on to LR, but it can go a very long way for some people.

UVA is similar but requires top third, which begs the question, if I'm a URM in the top third at UVA, why would I ever bother with law review?



For top litigation firms law review can be make or break when it comes to hiring--even for a URM in the top 1/3 of the class ( for Williams and Conolly you want law review or a secondary journal whether you are a top 1/3 URM or not). For transactional firms you are right in thinking that it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle. If I'm blessed enough to end up top 1/3 at UVA I will definitely do my best to write a personal statement good enough to get me onto Law Review. To not even try would always leave me wondering "what if?".
But if you could get the same result from law review or a secondary journal, why choose law review and have to write a note?


At the top lit firms you can't get the same result--for most of the vault 10 yes--but not for the top litigation firms (Munger, Williams and Connolly, Susman, Irell, Kellog Huber etc.)

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Doritos
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Doritos » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:52 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Doritos wrote:Prestige has to be a factor. Having "Notes Editor - blah blah Law Review " on your resume/firm bio looks nice
So... prestige for the sake of prestige?


Yes. haha I am thinking more along the lines of since you are up there why not go for the gold? It seems that Law Review is the law school gold and if you already worked so hard for the grades to even be in contention why not put in a bit more effort just to say you did it? It's like climbing the 2nd tallest mountain the world (K2 according to wikipedia) vs climbing Mt. Everest.

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Kohinoor
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:07 pm

Doritos wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Doritos wrote:Prestige has to be a factor. Having "Notes Editor - blah blah Law Review " on your resume/firm bio looks nice
So... prestige for the sake of prestige?


Yes. haha I am thinking more along the lines of since you are up there why not go for the gold? It seems that Law Review is the law school gold and if you already worked so hard for the grades to even be in contention why not put in a bit more effort just to say you did it? It's like climbing the 2nd tallest mountain the world (K2 according to wikipedia) vs climbing Mt. Everest.

I guess... I still don't quite get the mentality here.

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GeePee
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby GeePee » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:26 pm

All star trolling as usual.

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Hiei
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Hiei » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:34 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
Doritos wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
Doritos wrote:Prestige has to be a factor. Having "Notes Editor - blah blah Law Review " on your resume/firm bio looks nice
So... prestige for the sake of prestige?


Yes. haha I am thinking more along the lines of since you are up there why not go for the gold? It seems that Law Review is the law school gold and if you already worked so hard for the grades to even be in contention why not put in a bit more effort just to say you did it? It's like climbing the 2nd tallest mountain the world (K2 according to wikipedia) vs climbing Mt. Everest.

I guess... I still don't quite get the mentality here.



See my last post again.

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Charles Barkley
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Charles Barkley » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:26 pm

bradley wrote:Why don't you worry about writing a good submission instead of trying to figure out if you can slack off just because of the color of your skin? Diversity quotas for Law Review are not cool. Just think of all those more worthy candidates being left off and losing employment opportunities to somebody who isn't as qualified.

:roll:

I wish blatant racists like this would start being banned. This type of talk should not be tolerated.

d34d9823
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby d34d9823 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:32 pm

Charles Barkley wrote:
bradley wrote:Why don't you worry about writing a good submission instead of trying to figure out if you can slack off just because of the color of your skin? Diversity quotas for Law Review are not cool. Just think of all those more worthy candidates being left off and losing employment opportunities to somebody who isn't as qualified.

:roll:

I wish blatant racists like this would start being banned. This type of talk should not be tolerated.

I think it's a valid viewpoint (not mine). Affirmative action basically says that people with lower scores make it over people with higher scores. That seems unfair on the face of it. To defend affirmative action, I think you have to argue for a compelling interest in diversity (my viewpoint).

noquieromas
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby noquieromas » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:58 pm

A recent(ish) U of C grad and current law prof (at a D.C. school, I believe) recently gave a talk on getting into academia and the importance of law review.

He started the talk by first lavishly praising U of C's law review for maintaining its "tradition of excellence." At first, he referred to affirmative action only directly, talking about how "fair" the selection process is at U of C (top 10% grade wise + top 10 on the writing competition). He then segued into a screed against Harvard Law Review, which (according to him) has "destroyed its reputation" by accepting all sorts of "unqualified" people via affirmative action.

People in the room started wincing. A few people walked out.

He then gave a series of examples to illustrate how -- I shit you not -- the Harvard Law editors he's dealt with allegedly don't understand basic grammar and punctuation. Yes, his proof of the apparent decline of Harvard Law Review is that they disagree with him about the use of dashes in compound adjectives.

I for one was not surprised when he name-dropped clerking for Scalia.

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trialjunky
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby trialjunky » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:26 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:
bradley wrote:Why don't you worry about writing a good submission instead of trying to figure out if you can slack off just because of the color of your skin? Diversity quotas for Law Review are not cool. Just think of all those more worthy candidates being left off and losing employment opportunities to somebody who isn't as qualified.



Smile friend. It's going to be ok.



Lol! Bradley, calm it. You are assuming things and you know what they say about assuming...

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Kohinoor
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Re: URMs on Law Review

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:00 pm

2 BLSA members made law review from our year. Uh, congrats to me are decidedly not in order.




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