Lack of URMs

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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hiromoto45
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby hiromoto45 » Mon May 17, 2010 4:23 pm

creatinganalt wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:Also, a lot of black men do worse because black women, and women in general, are disciplined much more effectively in the home. I have about 6 friends who all fit the same pattern - black girls with brothers, no father. The girls are all successful and the boys are all wild. The girls were expected to keep the house going, cook, clean and help out. The boys were never made to lift a finger. Even subtler expectations about behavior are different. As a result the girls are all college educated and the boys are high school drop outs roaming the streets.



I don't think the fully explains the phenomena. Something psychological is going that has nothing to do with the family unit. Because black males are dropping out or not finishing college from many different kinds of family units.


Sorry - I agree with you that it can't be the whole story. It's probably a combination of a lot of things. But I do think that black men are subject to different expectations even within the black community.


How do we change this?

creatinganalt
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby creatinganalt » Mon May 17, 2010 4:28 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:Also, a lot of black men do worse because black women, and women in general, are disciplined much more effectively in the home. I have about 6 friends who all fit the same pattern - black girls with brothers, no father. The girls are all successful and the boys are all wild. The girls were expected to keep the house going, cook, clean and help out. The boys were never made to lift a finger. Even subtler expectations about behavior are different. As a result the girls are all college educated and the boys are high school drop outs roaming the streets.



I don't think the fully explains the phenomena. Something psychological is going that has nothing to do with the family unit. Because black males are dropping out or not finishing college from many different kinds of family units.


Sorry - I agree with you that it can't be the whole story. It's probably a combination of a lot of things. But I do think that black men are subject to different expectations even within the black community.


How do we change this?


First I have to say - I like your focus :D

It's got to be mentorship, surely?

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trialjunky
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby trialjunky » Mon May 17, 2010 4:39 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:I think that there is sometimes an issue with minorities being in competition when they are used to being the 'only' one in a sea of whites. That often means small compromises and I don't think people like witnesses to their uncomfortable moments. Like if someone makes a racist joke, I think that a lot of POC feel under more pressure if another POC is there because they feel then they have to respond.

Also the narrow gap of acceptable behaviour for minorities is very small and doesn't really include hanging out with other minorities. It's a wonderfully racist system in which 2 black people talking to each other are considered to be 'segregating themselves' whereas 30 white people with no black friends is 'normal'.


I always hated when something racial was discussed or happened that my whole class would look at me because I was the only POC. :|



I can not tell you how many times this has happened in both highschool and college. I had a teacher who would straight call me out. [Insert name], would you like to share the black perspective on this topic?

No, no I do not.

creatinganalt
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby creatinganalt » Mon May 17, 2010 4:43 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:I think that there is sometimes an issue with minorities being in competition when they are used to being the 'only' one in a sea of whites. That often means small compromises and I don't think people like witnesses to their uncomfortable moments. Like if someone makes a racist joke, I think that a lot of POC feel under more pressure if another POC is there because they feel then they have to respond.

Also the narrow gap of acceptable behaviour for minorities is very small and doesn't really include hanging out with other minorities. It's a wonderfully racist system in which 2 black people talking to each other are considered to be 'segregating themselves' whereas 30 white people with no black friends is 'normal'.


I always hated when something racial was discussed or happened that my whole class would look at me because I was the only POC. :|


...
Last edited by creatinganalt on Mon May 17, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thirteen
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby Thirteen » Mon May 17, 2010 4:47 pm

creatinganalt wrote:.


You might want to edit your last post.

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Thirteen
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby Thirteen » Mon May 17, 2010 4:49 pm

creatinganalt wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:Sorry - I agree with you that it can't be the whole story. It's probably a combination of a lot of things. But I do think that black men are subject to different expectations even within the black community.


How do we change this?


First I have to say - I like your focus :D

It's got to be mentorship, surely?


I agree with the mentorship approach. It will be impossible to change expectations for EVERY black male, but everyone can do their part to help a few kids in their community.

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bk1
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby bk1 » Mon May 17, 2010 4:51 pm

Reading the above replies makes me feel extraordinarily lucky to have not experienced any significant racism in my life.

creatinganalt
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby creatinganalt » Mon May 17, 2010 4:55 pm

Thirteen wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:.


You might want to edit your last post.


LOL - too much honesty for TLS?

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hiromoto45
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby hiromoto45 » Mon May 17, 2010 4:59 pm

trialjunky wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:I think that there is sometimes an issue with minorities being in competition when they are used to being the 'only' one in a sea of whites. That often means small compromises and I don't think people like witnesses to their uncomfortable moments. Like if someone makes a racist joke, I think that a lot of POC feel under more pressure if another POC is there because they feel then they have to respond.

Also the narrow gap of acceptable behaviour for minorities is very small and doesn't really include hanging out with other minorities. It's a wonderfully racist system in which 2 black people talking to each other are considered to be 'segregating themselves' whereas 30 white people with no black friends is 'normal'.


I always hated when something racial was discussed or happened that my whole class would look at me because I was the only POC. :|



I can not tell you how many times this has happened in both highschool and college. I had a teacher who would straight call me out. [Insert name], would you like to share the black perspective on this topic?

No, no I do not.


Try sitting through a class in high school reading Huckleberry Finn out loud. It was a free pass to say the n-word. :?

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oberlin08
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby oberlin08 » Mon May 17, 2010 5:05 pm

mentorship is so so so so important. I cannot stress that enough. Speking from my own experience, seeing my own mentees grow, and how their perspective has changed just by having me present has been drastic.

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trialjunky
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby trialjunky » Mon May 17, 2010 5:21 pm

oberlin08 wrote:mentorship is so so so so important. I cannot stress that enough. Speking from my own experience, seeing my own mentees grow, and how their perspective has changed just by having me present has been drastic.



I need to get one of these

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon May 17, 2010 6:54 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:
trialjunky wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:I think that there is sometimes an issue with minorities being in competition when they are used to being the 'only' one in a sea of whites. That often means small compromises and I don't think people like witnesses to their uncomfortable moments. Like if someone makes a racist joke, I think that a lot of POC feel under more pressure if another POC is there because they feel then they have to respond.

Also the narrow gap of acceptable behaviour for minorities is very small and doesn't really include hanging out with other minorities. It's a wonderfully racist system in which 2 black people talking to each other are considered to be 'segregating themselves' whereas 30 white people with no black friends is 'normal'.


I always hated when something racial was discussed or happened that my whole class would look at me because I was the only POC. :|



I can not tell you how many times this has happened in both highschool and college. I had a teacher who would straight call me out. [Insert name], would you like to share the black perspective on this topic?

No, no I do not.


Try sitting through a class in high school reading Huckleberry Finn out loud. It was a free pass to say the n-word. :?


You went to a high school where they actually had the students read a text out loud as it had been written? Of all the nerve. I thank God I went to a school where a large number of classics weren't even allowed in the library because of their immorality.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby hiromoto45 » Mon May 17, 2010 7:02 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
trialjunky wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
I always hated when something racial was discussed or happened that my whole class would look at me because I was the only POC. :|



I can not tell you how many times this has happened in both highschool and college. I had a teacher who would straight call me out. [Insert name], would you like to share the black perspective on this topic?

No, no I do not.


Try sitting through a class in high school reading Huckleberry Finn out loud. It was a free pass to say the n-word. :?


You went to a high school where they actually had the students read a text out loud as it had been written? Of all the nerve. I thank God I went to a school where a large number of classics weren't even allowed in the library because of their immorality.


Yes. But they would teach it if I was there or not. He wasn't going to change his curriculum because just once every few years he may have a black student.

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jw316
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby jw316 » Mon May 17, 2010 7:28 pm

trialjunky wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:mentorship is so so so so important. I cannot stress that enough. Speking from my own experience, seeing my own mentees grow, and how their perspective has changed just by having me present has been drastic.



I need to get one of these


TITCR :(

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newyorker88
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby newyorker88 » Mon May 17, 2010 8:09 pm

trialjunky wrote:Why are there so few of us applying for advanced degrees?



Hundreds of years of oppression and exclusion which has had devastating effects on the african american community combined with the current reality for african americans, they disproportionately go to the worst schools in america.

Also, why are so many of us nasty to each other to one-up the other person?

Never seen this

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trialjunky
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby trialjunky » Mon May 17, 2010 9:47 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:
trialjunky wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:I think that there is sometimes an issue with minorities being in competition when they are used to being the 'only' one in a sea of whites. That often means small compromises and I don't think people like witnesses to their uncomfortable moments. Like if someone makes a racist joke, I think that a lot of POC feel under more pressure if another POC is there because they feel then they have to respond.

Also the narrow gap of acceptable behaviour for minorities is very small and doesn't really include hanging out with other minorities. It's a wonderfully racist system in which 2 black people talking to each other are considered to be 'segregating themselves' whereas 30 white people with no black friends is 'normal'.


I always hated when something racial was discussed or happened that my whole class would look at me because I was the only POC. :|



I can not tell you how many times this has happened in both highschool and college. I had a teacher who would straight call me out. [Insert name], would you like to share the black perspective on this topic?

No, no I do not.


Try sitting through a class in high school reading Huckleberry Finn out loud. It was a free pass to say the n-word. :?


It's funny, maybe because I'm in Florida, but white people really think they can fling around the n word whenever the hell they want. I went to a concert on Friday and this guy straight up called this guy a n@$$%^.

Ruined it

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hiromoto45
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby hiromoto45 » Wed May 19, 2010 12:15 pm

I don't think mentorship is enough. There needs to be a massive overall of the educational system. Kids shouldn't be able to drop out of school at 16.

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oberlin08
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby oberlin08 » Wed May 19, 2010 12:17 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:I don't think mentorship is enough. There needs to be a massive overall of the educational system. Kids shouldn't be able to drop out of school at 16.



I dont think anyone said mentorship is enough, youre right a massive overhaul is needed. But mentorship is something we all can do in the meantime..

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hiromoto45
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby hiromoto45 » Wed May 19, 2010 12:23 pm

oberlin08 wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:I don't think mentorship is enough. There needs to be a massive overall of the educational system. Kids shouldn't be able to drop out of school at 16.



I dont think anyone said mentorship is enough, youre right a massive overhaul is needed. But mentorship is something we all can do in the meantime..


I didn't say they did, but it is the only thing offered so far. I want a more radical approach. Removing kids for depressive environments and setting them up in a military type school. I would love to start my own and more academies like the Harlem School of Success, but with a military school bent of discipline.

http://www.harlemsuccess.org/

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oberlin08
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby oberlin08 » Wed May 19, 2010 4:29 pm

my idea for a more radical approach is actually a more community based school. One where the educational process would involve not only the child, but all parents/caretakers that are around, the religious mentors, sports coaches etc. That way, even when the kid isn't literally at school, or working on schoolwork, he or she is most likely around someone who is intimately involved in their learning process and growth.

Military academies could work, but the problem there, is that they dont work for every child. Especially once you get into learning disability issues and such.

creatinganalt
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby creatinganalt » Wed May 19, 2010 5:25 pm

oberlin08 wrote:my idea for a more radical approach is actually a more community based school. One where the educational process would involve not only the child, but all parents/caretakers that are around, the religious mentors, sports coaches etc. That way, even when the kid isn't literally at school, or working on schoolwork, he or she is most likely around someone who is intimately involved in their learning process and growth.

Military academies could work, but the problem there, is that they dont work for every child. Especially once you get into learning disability issues and such.


I agree with all of this.

For socio-economically deprived areas - in my mind the school would be at least partially residential. I can't get around the idea that the best solution for a lot of children who would be going in and out of care/parents in and out of jail is a boarding school. But people's needs vary. So one kid would probably be ok staying during the week but going home at the weekend. Another child may need to be there every night. One kid may need to be at home over the summer to help out with their brothers and sisters, but not in term time. Mom's boyfriend may be around too much for some etc. And this would need to be part of the community and owned by the community so that no one was stigmatised.

This way these kids get the stability and mentorship they need without breaking them completely from their families (which most people resist no matter what the parents do) OR allowing their family circumstances to derail their potential.

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3 Stripes
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby 3 Stripes » Wed May 19, 2010 5:31 pm

ITT: oberlin08 and creatinganalt are definitely onto something in regards to youth educational/social reform in the inner-city.

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3 Stripes
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby 3 Stripes » Wed May 19, 2010 5:37 pm

I would also want to know why black marriages are at an all-time low while interracial marriages appear to be at an all-time high.

I'm sure the educational achievement disparity between black males and black females has to factor in somewhere. But I think the issue is deeper than that.

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oberlin08
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby oberlin08 » Wed May 19, 2010 5:39 pm

creatinganalt wrote:
oberlin08 wrote:my idea for a more radical approach is actually a more community based school. One where the educational process would involve not only the child, but all parents/caretakers that are around, the religious mentors, sports coaches etc. That way, even when the kid isn't literally at school, or working on schoolwork, he or she is most likely around someone who is intimately involved in their learning process and growth.

Military academies could work, but the problem there, is that they dont work for every child. Especially once you get into learning disability issues and such.


I agree with all of this.

For socio-economically deprived areas - in my mind the school would be at least partially residential. I can't get around the idea that the best solution for a lot of children who would be going in and out of care/parents in and out of jail is a boarding school. But people's needs vary. So one kid would probably be ok staying during the week but going home at the weekend. Another child may need to be there every night. One kid may need to be at home over the summer to help out with their brothers and sisters, but not in term time. Mom's boyfriend may be around too much for some etc. And this would need to be part of the community and owned by the community so that no one was stigmatised.

This way these kids get the stability and mentorship they need without breaking them completely from their families (which most people resist no matter what the parents do) OR allowing their family circumstances to derail their potential.


I think basically what its gonna be is a combination of both of those ideas among others. One thing is clear, that the current system, regardless of the city or state, doesn't work. And by the way it's failing the white kids in rural america too. They just don't go to jail in high percentages like the black kids do.



Also, i was thinking (writing about in a thesis once upon a time) that maybe an increase in types, quantities and accessibilty of magnet schools might work too. So instead of just your regional science magnet school for the smartest students, you have like 4 or 5 magnet schools in that region focusing on a number of different things
Last edited by oberlin08 on Wed May 19, 2010 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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oberlin08
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby oberlin08 » Wed May 19, 2010 5:40 pm

3 Stripes wrote:I would also want to know why black marriages are at an all-time low while interracial marriages appear to be at an all-time high.

I'm sure the educational achievement disparity between black males and black females has to factor in somewhere. But I think the issue is deeper than that.



Yea i definitely think the gender disparity in terms of achievement plays a large large role.

Also, among black marriages among poverty level populations, a lot of the men are going to jail..




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