Lack of URMs

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu May 20, 2010 5:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Look at the funding per student in places like Chicago, and DC. It is actually very high. DC is the higher per student, and it has terrible results.

A lack of money can be a problem, but there are much bigger forces at work.


hmmm, refuted in like a minute, there goes my contribution to this thread.

creatinganalt
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby creatinganalt » Fri May 21, 2010 4:41 am

Desert Fox wrote:
adh07d wrote:Sorry for breaking the marriage tangent, but the thing that I always figured was a huge problem was the public school system. Schools get their funding from property taxes --> high minority districts produce lower funding --> minority kids get really really really crappy schools --> poor educational foundation leads to limited upward mobility --> ultimately end up in poor and in poor high minority districts --> repeat ad infinitum. Having that poor foundation in basic math/english skills from ages 4-18 can be irreversibly crippling. I know in OC Florida, the three perennially "F" ranked schools are all 90%+ minority schools, and it's almost the opposite for high end public schools.


Look at the funding per student in places like Chicago, and DC. It is actually very high. DC is the higher per student, and it has terrible results.

A lack of money can be a problem, but there are much bigger forces at work.


But DC and Chicago would be special cases, right? Both being corrupt as hell and so incompetent they would be incapable of organising a piss up in a brewery.

I think the funding issue is still relevant.

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iYale
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby iYale » Fri May 21, 2010 5:17 am

Why the distinction? I think all ppl have a natural propensity to tear one another down for personal gain (Hint: Its what America was built on), but in response to the first part of your question: Lack of self-will,paternal/maternal responsibilities, lack of family support, and pretty much what everyone else has reverberated time after time ITT. :)

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trialjunky
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby trialjunky » Fri May 21, 2010 8:03 am

Desert Fox wrote:
adh07d wrote:Sorry for breaking the marriage tangent, but the thing that I always figured was a huge problem was the public school system. Schools get their funding from property taxes --> high minority districts produce lower funding --> minority kids get really really really crappy schools --> poor educational foundation leads to limited upward mobility --> ultimately end up in poor and in poor high minority districts --> repeat ad infinitum. Having that poor foundation in basic math/english skills from ages 4-18 can be irreversibly crippling. I know in OC Florida, the three perennially "F" ranked schools are all 90%+ minority schools, and it's almost the opposite for high end public schools.


Look at the funding per student in places like Chicago, and DC. It is actually very high. DC is the higher per student, and it has terrible results.

A lack of money can be a problem, but there are much bigger forces at work.


I agree with the bolded, I think it's a horrible cycle we've put in place that punishes children for low performing schools. If anything, schools who are getting F ratings should get MORE money.

Also, I think Florida is a little bit of special case in which the teachers generally aren't piss poor but the funding is so bad that they just don’t have the resources. Also, Florida has the bright futures scholarship GUARANTEEING anyone with a certain gpa and community volunteer hours a scholarship. If you have a 3.0 you get 75% of your college paid off, if you have a 3.5 you get 100% of your college paid off. I don’t know any other state that has a similar program. This means that if the F schools actually got funding and the teachers had more resources + a mentor system = more minorities could go to/afford college.

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JG Hall
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby JG Hall » Fri May 21, 2010 8:10 am

because then they wouldn't be URMs, obvi.

farewelltoarms
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby farewelltoarms » Wed May 26, 2010 3:24 pm

trialjunky wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
adh07d wrote:Sorry for breaking the marriage tangent, but the thing that I always figured was a huge problem was the public school system. Schools get their funding from property taxes --> high minority districts produce lower funding --> minority kids get really really really crappy schools --> poor educational foundation leads to limited upward mobility --> ultimately end up in poor and in poor high minority districts --> repeat ad infinitum. Having that poor foundation in basic math/english skills from ages 4-18 can be irreversibly crippling. I know in OC Florida, the three perennially "F" ranked schools are all 90%+ minority schools, and it's almost the opposite for high end public schools.


Look at the funding per student in places like Chicago, and DC. It is actually very high. DC is the higher per student, and it has terrible results.

A lack of money can be a problem, but there are much bigger forces at work.


I agree with the bolded, I think it's a horrible cycle we've put in place that punishes children for low performing schools. If anything, schools who are getting F ratings should get MORE money.

Also, I think Florida is a little bit of special case in which the teachers generally aren't piss poor but the funding is so bad that they just don’t have the resources. Also, Florida has the bright futures scholarship GUARANTEEING anyone with a certain gpa and community volunteer hours a scholarship. If you have a 3.0 you get 75% of your college paid off, if you have a 3.5 you get 100% of your college paid off. I don’t know any other state that has a similar program. This means that if the F schools actually got funding and the teachers had more resources + a mentor system = more minorities could go to/afford college.


You're simplifying this a bit too much IMO. 100 percent bright futures, in addition to the gpa and community service requirement, also requires a SAT score of 1270 which is around the 80th percentile. Needless to say, few URM's are routinely hitting this score. Revamping F schools will help to some extent, but the real issue is standardized testing.

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trialjunky
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby trialjunky » Wed May 26, 2010 3:29 pm

farewelltoarms wrote:
trialjunky wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
adh07d wrote:Sorry for breaking the marriage tangent, but the thing that I always figured was a huge problem was the public school system. Schools get their funding from property taxes --> high minority districts produce lower funding --> minority kids get really really really crappy schools --> poor educational foundation leads to limited upward mobility --> ultimately end up in poor and in poor high minority districts --> repeat ad infinitum. Having that poor foundation in basic math/english skills from ages 4-18 can be irreversibly crippling. I know in OC Florida, the three perennially "F" ranked schools are all 90%+ minority schools, and it's almost the opposite for high end public schools.


Look at the funding per student in places like Chicago, and DC. It is actually very high. DC is the higher per student, and it has terrible results.

A lack of money can be a problem, but there are much bigger forces at work.


I agree with the bolded, I think it's a horrible cycle we've put in place that punishes children for low performing schools. If anything, schools who are getting F ratings should get MORE money.

Also, I think Florida is a little bit of special case in which the teachers generally aren't piss poor but the funding is so bad that they just don’t have the resources. Also, Florida has the bright futures scholarship GUARANTEEING anyone with a certain gpa and community volunteer hours a scholarship. If you have a 3.0 you get 75% of your college paid off, if you have a 3.5 you get 100% of your college paid off. I don’t know any other state that has a similar program. This means that if the F schools actually got funding and the teachers had more resources + a mentor system = more minorities could go to/afford college.


You're simplifying this a bit too much IMO. 100 percent bright futures, in addition to the gpa and community service requirement, also requires a SAT score of 1270 which is around the 80th percentile. Needless to say, few URM's are routinely hitting this score. Revamping F schools will help to some extent, but the real issue is standardized testing.


Damn, I forgot about the SAT. I try not to remember horrible experiences. You are right about that. .

The "F" in F schools stands for fucking ridik! How does it make sense to pull money from schools that are performing badly?

farewelltoarms
Posts: 48
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby farewelltoarms » Wed May 26, 2010 4:30 pm

I think the logic of pulling away funds from under-performing schools is to use negative reinforcement. If the schools fuck up by not graduating enough of their students or scoring poorly on the FCAT, then the school board punishes them by taking away their funds in order to motivate them to perform better. However, the problem with taking away their funds means the schools have less money to rectify the already present problems that caused them to receive an F ranking in the first place.

My local school was I think a C/D school or so, but attended a magnet school 35 minutes away because it was so vastly superior. Although it was a lottery system and I was lucky enough to get in, I feel like this is the best bet for students whose local schools are D/F quality. Vouchers are also an option, although I'm not too sure about how vouchers work these days.

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lawrencecis
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby lawrencecis » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:47 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
ArthurEdens wrote:I suspect that it arises from a lack of parental guidance. Those of us who have pursued graduate degrees either have parents that led by example or had parents that constantly talked about the importance of such education.

If education is not valued (which it often isn't - I can back this up if anyone is offended), or if there is no time/money to instill this value (e.g. single parent working two jobs), then of course you're going to see a disparity.

I agree, but I think parents not valuing education goes back to the point I was making; when the parents (and especially the grandparents, who are often still alive and giving guidance) were young, they were typically denied access to most higher education institutions. Why value something you believe is impossible to get?

Minorities would value higher education much more if more was done to give them access to it, and to make them aware of that access. This is part of the enormous legacy of racism that this country has yet to overcome.


Interesting idea. My grandparents always urge me to get more education, though because they've seen it work in small amount of cases around them. When they grew up in east LA the few people who were successful got an education. However, my parents aren't in line with this wave of thinking. BTW, I'm Mex. Am. For example, my dad forbade me from taking AP classes in high school, although I had a 3.9 (and never doing hw); and doesn't want me to continue with my JD, even though I graduated magna and PBK from my undergrad. I have no idea why this is, but one reason is money. I would assume a lot of minorities are debt adverse because they never had a lot of money to begin with (as is the case with my family). So, my dad discouraging me and taking on debt to get higher degrees seems like a logical connection. They don't see it as an investment, but rather just money owed (which is the case in the literal sense, but not the long-term payoffs). It would be an interesting Ph.D. study for any of you Ph.D. hopefuls out there.

By the way, when the people and the above poster talk about "denying access" in modern times, can we please just call it by it's real name: money. Minorities never had the money to buy their way into schools and now-a-days because it's so prohibitively expensive, people of all colors are denied an education (or better yet, the education preparation to receive a good education).

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TIMEATELL
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Re: Lack of URMs

Postby TIMEATELL » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:35 am

This is a very complicated issue. I think most would agree that there are institutional and cultural factors at play here. Of course, it goes without saying that much of our culture was influenced by a global institution that was (and still is to a certain extent) deliberately oppressive toward black people.

I didn't quote Creatinganalt, but I think he raised an interesting point about the role of black women, which is one of the many cultural factors at play. Although this may offend some, I'm going to say it anyway. In the "average" black community, a substantial portion of black women are held to (and hold themselves to) a much higher standard than that of black men. I can even go one step further and say, a substantial portion of black women hold black men to a higher standard than we as black men hold ourselves and each other. The socioeconomic disparities amongst black women and black men in the upper echelons of society coincide with the socioeconomic disparities at ground zero in your "average" black community. I believe the former is a result of the latter. With that said, to truly understand why we (black people) are underrepresented to the degree that we are, we have to recreate the trail of disparity by asking and understanding "why."

By the way, this is my first post and I think this forum is awesome. I will be applying to law school this fall/winter.


TIME




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