Any "fortunate" URM's

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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hiromoto45
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby hiromoto45 » Fri May 14, 2010 8:57 am

vanwinkle wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:I don't understand where the myth originated from that you have to poor and black to benefit from AA.

It's rooted in the myth that being successful as a minority means you've overcome racism and it doesn't affect you anymore.


That's when racism is most prevalent.

elmagic
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby elmagic » Fri May 14, 2010 12:00 pm

ITT "fortunate" URMs defend their URM boost.

Seriously though, whether you are black or latino even asian, you are always going to face racism. But just because a black kid with two doctors for parents faces racism because of his skin color doesn't mean that kid knows what it's like to grow up in mott haven with your dad up at rikers. That isn't racism, that's just fucked up. But yeah we can all bring diversity in other ways :lol:

creatinganalt
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby creatinganalt » Fri May 14, 2010 7:47 pm

elmagic wrote:ITT "fortunate" URMs defend their URM boost.

Seriously though, whether you are black or latino even asian, you are always going to face racism. But just because a black kid with two doctors for parents faces racism because of his skin color doesn't mean that kid knows what it's like to grow up in mott haven with your dad up at rikers. That isn't racism, that's just fucked up. But yeah we can all bring diversity in other ways :lol:


I think you're missing the point. You seem to be saying that being a minority isn't like being poor/coming from a bad home. No one said it was. I don't need to have a dad in jail to understand what racism is and frankly, a white guy with his dad in jail, doesn't have a clue what it's like to be me.

And your first sentence is the only one which has value. You don't need to predicate URM boosts on economic hardships because as you've just admitted: whether you are black or latino even asian, you are always going to face racism.

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Always Credited
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 14, 2010 7:53 pm

Race has been mentioned. In before PDaddy comes in and shit talks all white people + all black people who won't shit talk all white people.


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Mattalones
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby Mattalones » Fri May 14, 2010 8:07 pm

^^^-----?!?!WTF?!?!-----^^^

elmagic
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby elmagic » Fri May 14, 2010 8:34 pm

creatinganalt wrote:
elmagic wrote:ITT "fortunate" URMs defend their URM boost.

Seriously though, whether you are black or latino even asian, you are always going to face racism. But just because a black kid with two doctors for parents faces racism because of his skin color doesn't mean that kid knows what it's like to grow up in mott haven with your dad up at rikers. That isn't racism, that's just fucked up. But yeah we can all bring diversity in other ways :lol:


I think you're missing the point. You seem to be saying that being a minority isn't like being poor/coming from a bad home. No one said it was. I don't need to have a dad in jail to understand what racism is and frankly, a white guy with his dad in jail, doesn't have a clue what it's like to be me.

And your first sentence is the only one which has value. You don't need to predicate URM boosts on economic hardships because as you've just admitted: whether you are black or latino even asian, you are always going to face racism.


I think you misunderstood what I had to say. I am not saying that being a minority isn't like being poor/coming from a bad home, you don't have to be poor to experience racism. I think I made it pretty clear that minorities will always face some sort of racism, you even bolded the statement and assigned it a value.

And yes a white guy with his dad in jail who is dirt poor etc knows as much about what it's like to be you as you know about what it's like to be a black kid growing up in mott haven. Adversity isn't solely composed of racism; So yeah you might experience more racism at the country club, or the suburbs, but only because you even have the opportunity to be there in the first place.

However, I don't see the problem with "fortunate" urms reeking the benefits of AA. Rather have some than none at all.

creatinganalt
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby creatinganalt » Sat May 15, 2010 4:04 am

elmagic wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:
elmagic wrote:ITT "fortunate" URMs defend their URM boost.

Seriously though, whether you are black or latino even asian, you are always going to face racism. But just because a black kid with two doctors for parents faces racism because of his skin color doesn't mean that kid knows what it's like to grow up in mott haven with your dad up at rikers. That isn't racism, that's just fucked up. But yeah we can all bring diversity in other ways :lol:


I think you're missing the point. You seem to be saying that being a minority isn't like being poor/coming from a bad home. No one said it was. I don't need to have a dad in jail to understand what racism is and frankly, a white guy with his dad in jail, doesn't have a clue what it's like to be me.

And your first sentence is the only one which has value. You don't need to predicate URM boosts on economic hardships because as you've just admitted: whether you are black or latino even asian, you are always going to face racism.


I think you misunderstood what I had to say. I am not saying that being a minority isn't like being poor/coming from a bad home, you don't have to be poor to experience racism. I think I made it pretty clear that minorities will always face some sort of racism, you even bolded the statement and assigned it a value.

And yes a white guy with his dad in jail who is dirt poor etc knows as much about what it's like to be you as you know about what it's like to be a black kid growing up in mott haven. Adversity isn't solely composed of racism; So yeah you might experience more racism at the country club, or the suburbs, but only because you even have the opportunity to be there in the first place.

However, I don't see the problem with "fortunate" urms reeking the benefits of AA. Rather have some than none at all.


I'm not sure either of us are being entirely clear. Economic adversity has nothing to do with racism. So the Mott Haven black guy and country club black guy actually have a fairly decent understanding of one (important) facet of each other's existence - the race part. I'd say in America, that is the pretty much the part that matters.

Look, 'fortunate' URMs have as much right to be there as 'poor' URMs because of racism (not poverty). Since all the URMs experience and are shaped by racism, there is no distinction to be made here. It is not a compromise.

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MrSoOoFLy
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby MrSoOoFLy » Sat May 15, 2010 4:44 am

gatorgirl4life wrote:
bk1 wrote:I would think that an easier option would be for the "culture clash," i.e. American/Middle-Class Values vs URM-Culture Values.

Personally, I am Puerto Rican, Japanese, and White so I wrote about how these conflicted within myself.



Sweet! My adoptive parents are Puerto Rican and Jewban (Cuban of Russian Jewish descent), but grew up in the US, are very Americanized, and somehow managed to not learn a single word of Spanish growing up. I definitely didn't have to overcome any kind of economic hardship or discrimination, so I wrote about growing up as a Hispanic Jew in Florida and how my Hispanic heritage motivated me to become fluent in Spanish. Then, I contrasted my upbringing with that of my identical twin sister who was brought up as a Southern Baptist in rural Georgia (we were adopted into different families) and of my birthmother who's from a large Italian family in the Northeast. I concluded with something about trying to reconcile the conflict between my genetic heritage and my adoptive parents' and how, in the end, they've all had an impact on who I am today.


you're my new role model

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PDaddy
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby PDaddy » Sat May 15, 2010 5:39 am

Knockglock wrote:Are there any URM's out there that were fortunate and didn't have to go through huge struggles in their life in overcoming adversity? How did you craft your DS?


Contradiction in terms. If you are, say Obama's daughter or J-Lo's son, you are not a URM because rich or upper-middle-class ethnics are well represented in the professions.

On the other hand, all ethnic minorities face racism and discrimination. The question is, the effects of the different types of racism they face. Color this with the fact that economic means does insulate one from some of those effects. For example, cops don't like black men (not even black cops, lol). However, at least a financially well-off black or Mexican male can afford an attorney to keep him from being railroaded in a courtroom. Money doesn't completely shield anyone from racism, but it's easier to deal with.
Last edited by PDaddy on Sat May 15, 2010 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat May 15, 2010 5:41 am

PDaddy wrote:
Knockglock wrote:Are there any URM's out there that were fortunate and didn't have to go through huge struggles in their life in overcoming adversity? How did you craft your DS?


Contradiction in terms. If you are, say Obama's daughter or J-Lo's son, you are not a URM because rich or upper-middle-class ethnics are well represented in the professions.


I know you feel that way, but that's not how law schools look at it.

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PDaddy
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby PDaddy » Sat May 15, 2010 5:52 am

D. H2Oman wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Knockglock wrote:Are there any URM's out there that were fortunate and didn't have to go through huge struggles in their life in overcoming adversity? How did you craft your DS?


Contradiction in terms. If you are, say Obama's daughter or J-Lo's son, you are not a URM because rich or upper-middle-class ethnics are well represented in the professions.


I know you feel that way, but that's not how law schools look at it.


Yeah. it's messed up. Rich blacks and Latinos have enough advantages that they should maybe be viewed in the same light as Chinese and Japanese students. I don't think a black kid who has gone to good schools and never gone hungry or dodged bullets should get a boost. And I think poor white kids should get the same boost a lower middle-class black kid might get, or something close to it (which would still be a good boost). The URM thing bugs me altogether really. Anyone from any ethnic background can have struggle. A poor white kid is as bad off as a middle-class black kid, all else being equal, so he's got his own challenges. But a poor white kid still has it easier than a poor black kid.

What I'm saying is that skin color should not hold too much weight as a determinant. I know that may surprize people, my having been branded a racist and all, but that is how I feel. Nevertheless, white skin tone is still an advantage.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat May 15, 2010 5:57 am

PDaddy wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Knockglock wrote:Are there any URM's out there that were fortunate and didn't have to go through huge struggles in their life in overcoming adversity? How did you craft your DS?


Contradiction in terms. If you are, say Obama's daughter or J-Lo's son, you are not a URM because rich or upper-middle-class ethnics are well represented in the professions.


I know you feel that way, but that's not how law schools look at it.


Yeah. it's messed up. Rich blacks and Latinos have enough advantages that they should maybe be viewed in the same light as Chinese and Japanese students. I don't think a black kid who has gone to good schools and never gone hungry or dodged bullets should get a boost. And I think poor white kids should get the same boost a lower middle-class black kid might get, or something close to it (which would still be a good boost). The URM thing bugs me altogether really. Anyone from any ethnic background can have struggle. A poor white kid is as bad off as a middle-class black kid, all else being equal, so he's got his own challenges. But a poor white kid still has it easier than a poor black kid.

What I'm saying is that skin color should not hold too much weight as a determinant. I know that may surprize people, my having been branded a racist and all, but that is how I feel. Nevertheless, white skin tone is still an advantage.


Surprisingly reasonable my friend. We know law schools only care about the numbers. I think this applies racial class make up as well. Each school wants each race to be as close to the make of the nation as possible. Schools don't really care where the 10% of the class that is black came from (background wise), kind of a disappointing reality in my opinion.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby TheBigMediocre » Sat May 15, 2010 8:55 am

PDaddy wrote:
Yeah. it's messed up. Rich blacks and Latinos have enough advantages that they should maybe be viewed in the same light as Chinese and Japanese students. I don't think a black kid who has gone to good schools and never gone hungry or dodged bullets should get a boost. And I think poor white kids should get the same boost a lower middle-class black kid might get, or something close to it (which would still be a good boost). The URM thing bugs me altogether really. Anyone from any ethnic background can have struggle. A poor white kid is as bad off as a middle-class black kid, all else being equal, so he's got his own challenges. But a poor white kid still has it easier than a poor black kid.

What I'm saying is that skin color should not hold too much weight as a determinant. I know that may surprize people, my having been branded a racist and all, but that is how I feel. Nevertheless, white skin tone is still an advantage.


Ahah! At Last! The PDaddy Formula © is revealed:

Poor Black Kid = +3
Poor White Kid or Middle Class Black Kid = +1
Middle Class White Kid or Upper Class Black Kid = +0
Upper Class White Kid = -1

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YCrevolution
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby YCrevolution » Sat May 15, 2010 10:01 am

..

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vanwinkle
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 15, 2010 10:34 am

PDaddy wrote:
Knockglock wrote:Are there any URM's out there that were fortunate and didn't have to go through huge struggles in their life in overcoming adversity? How did you craft your DS?


Contradiction in terms. If you are, say Obama's daughter or J-Lo's son, you are not a URM because rich or upper-middle-class ethnics are well represented in the professions.

This just proves that you (and a lot of people on TLS, sadly) still don't understand what "under-represented minority" means.

creatinganalt
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby creatinganalt » Sat May 15, 2010 11:09 am

vanwinkle wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Knockglock wrote:Are there any URM's out there that were fortunate and didn't have to go through huge struggles in their life in overcoming adversity? How did you craft your DS?


Contradiction in terms. If you are, say Obama's daughter or J-Lo's son, you are not a URM because rich or upper-middle-class ethnics are well represented in the professions.

This just proves that you (and a lot of people on TLS, sadly) still don't understand what "under-represented minority" means.


Just ignore PDaddy's posts. The world seems brighter that way.

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3 Stripes
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby 3 Stripes » Sat May 15, 2010 11:14 am

--ImageRemoved--

wolf13
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby wolf13 » Wed May 19, 2010 6:30 pm

I am in the same situation as you regarding this. I am part Mexican, from a middle class family, and don't have a story of overcoming my background. It doesn't help that I am white as hell, never learned Spanish, and my family isn't traditional. Hell, the most racism I have experienced has been from looking white, when attending things put on by Latino clubs. Looking at me, and my background, I am a "typical white American".

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teabag
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby teabag » Sun May 23, 2010 3:42 am

is that picture you?

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Knock
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby Knock » Sun May 23, 2010 3:47 am

wolf13 wrote:I am in the same situation as you regarding this. I am part Mexican, from a middle class family, and don't have a story of overcoming my background. It doesn't help that I am white as hell, never learned Spanish, and my family isn't traditional. Hell, the most racism I have experienced has been from looking white, when attending things put on by Latino clubs. Looking at me, and my background, I am a "typical white American".


Are you planning on writing a DS?

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PDaddy
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby PDaddy » Sun May 23, 2010 5:01 am

vanwinkle wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Knockglock wrote:Are there any URM's out there that were fortunate and didn't have to go through huge struggles in their life in overcoming adversity? How did you craft your DS?


Contradiction in terms. If you are, say Obama's daughter or J-Lo's son, you are not a URM because rich or upper-middle-class ethnics are well represented in the professions.

This just proves that you (and a lot of people on TLS, sadly) still don't understand what "under-represented minority" means.


Wrong. URM is about relative "access". What about the "underrepresented" part is so difficult to understand? Rich blacks are NOT underrepresented in the professions. I would venture to say that by percentage, they are as likely to have access (i.e., means, background, social connections and family structure) and to enter the professions as anyone. Rich blacks are not underrepresented in my view.

In fact, one can argue that, from a sheer economic standpoint, they are highly represented, which is why their families have money and status in the first place. Out of 100,000 black families with household earnings above $250K, you are going to find a high concentration of entrepreneurs and professionals. Out of 100,000 white families of the same status, there will, likewise, be a high concentration of entrepreneurs and professionals. Like hell a suburban, rich black kid deserves some kind of boost. That undermines the purpose of recognizing URM's in the first place...creating access wfor those who don't have it.

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Drake014
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby Drake014 » Sun May 23, 2010 5:25 am

creatinganalt wrote:
I'm not sure either of us are being entirely clear. Economic adversity has nothing to do with racism. So the Mott Haven black guy and country club black guy actually have a fairly decent understanding of one (important) facet of each other's existence - the race part. I'd say in America, that is the pretty much the part that matters.

Look, 'fortunate' URMs have as much right to be there as 'poor' URMs because of racism (not poverty). Since all the URMs experience and are shaped by racism, there is no distinction to be made here. It is not a compromise.


Nah, in America politicians try to convince poor people that race matters over economic circumstances. That way the rich, a very small minority, can maintain power over the poor, a much larger group. Please see "False Consciousness" by Karl Marx.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby vanwinkle » Sun May 23, 2010 10:09 am

PDaddy wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:This just proves that you (and a lot of people on TLS, sadly) still don't understand what "under-represented minority" means.

Wrong. URM is about relative "access". What about the "underrepresented" part is so difficult to understand? Rich blacks are NOT underrepresented in the professions. I would venture to say that by percentage, they are as likely to have access (i.e., means, background, social connections and family structure) and to enter the professions as anyone. Rich blacks are not underrepresented in my view.

Again, you fail to understand what "under-represented minority" means. It refers to minority groups that have been legally found to be underrepresented as a whole in secondary education. There is no finding of economic status involved. What your view is has no bearing on what the legal definition of the concept is. URM status is entirely about ethnicity and not at all about socioeconomic factors. Whether you agree with this or not, it is fact.

Also did it really take you a week to respond to that?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby vanwinkle » Sun May 23, 2010 10:10 am

creatinganalt wrote:Just ignore PDaddy's posts. The world seems brighter that way.

I don't do it for myself. I do it for any new posters who are reading. I wouldn't want them to see PDaddy's posts without any rebuttals and assume that means they're true.

creatinganalt
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Re: Any "fortunate" URM's

Postby creatinganalt » Sun May 23, 2010 2:01 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
creatinganalt wrote:Just ignore PDaddy's posts. The world seems brighter that way.

I don't do it for myself. I do it for any new posters who are reading. I wouldn't want them to see PDaddy's posts without any rebuttals and assume that means they're true.


Good point.




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