Are different minorities favored during admissions?

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
Flanker1067
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Flanker1067 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:47 am

Nightrunner wrote:It depends on the GPA, it seems. A URM splitter whose GPA is still in "respectable land" is likely to be treated like royalty; a URM splitter whose GPA falls below some hypothetical Mendoza line is likely to have a zeroURMboostSECURE sort of cycle.

Not that I'm upset, or anything.


Hmm, I don't know. My GPA is still in respectable land (3.5x) but it is below medians at all the top schools and below 25th at a bunch of the T14.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:54 am

I moved this to the appropriate forum. I realize this is a sensitive subject, and want to remind people on here to keep discourse respectful and positive. As for schools not giving a URM GPA boost, it depends on the school, and just how big a splitter the person in question is. Someone with under a 2.5 is likely to be in trouble, regardless of race. (This does not mean good things never happen, even for non-URMs. I mean, look at Rayiner's cycle.)

We overlook the fact that some schools do try to make holistic decisions, where they are able to do so without jeopardizing rank.

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Thirteen
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Thirteen » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:01 am

Nightrunner wrote:It depends on the GPA, it seems. A URM splitter whose GPA is still in "respectable land" is likely to be treated like royalty; a URM splitter whose GPA falls below some hypothetical Mendoza line is likely to have a zeroURMboostSECURE sort of cycle.

Not that I'm upset, or anything.


Credited :oops:

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:12 am

Nightrunner wrote:OS, I want to believe you. I really do. But as the recipient of the worst URM boost in history - when there were maybe 5 Native males scoring in the 99th percentile - I have to laugh maniacally (and then cry a little bit) whenever someone talks about "holistic admissions."


Not every school does, but I have seen evidence that some do, for some applicants. I agree with you that it's incredibly shitty that USNews has foreclosed upon the few avenues open to schools who want to be more holistic. I am not discounting your cycle at all, nor apologizing for the numbers whoring that is much more widespread than it should be. Having talked to my own admissions director at length (I did the interview for TLS) I sort of have a sense of what they would like to do contrasted with what they feel compelled to do, and how it plays out here.

As school consumers, we are entitled to vote with our tuition dollars when we feel schools are turning a blind eye to diversity.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:18 am

Nightrunner wrote:OS, I want to believe you. I really do. But as the recipient of the worst URM boost in history - when there were maybe 5 Native males scoring in the 99th percentile - I have to laugh maniacally (and then cry a little bit) whenever someone talks about "holistic admissions."


This sucks... i don't know how you did not get more of a boost, I mean AA male splitters get massive ones and general consensus is that Native Americans get almost as much as them...

On a side note Asians are probably ORM and might have a slight disadvantage at some top schools. For example Columbia's 20% Asian probably means they take all the good number ones they can find, but NYU's 10% might be due to a conscious choice to not have an over-representation of Asian students... thus leading to rejecting/ waitlisting some otherwise qualified applicants.

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Unemployed
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Unemployed » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:01 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:OS, I want to believe you. I really do. But as the recipient of the worst URM boost in history - when there were maybe 5 Native males scoring in the 99th percentile - I have to laugh maniacally (and then cry a little bit) whenever someone talks about "holistic admissions."


This sucks... i don't know how you did not get more of a boost, I mean AA male splitters get massive ones and general consensus is that Native Americans get almost as much as them...

On a side note Asians are probably ORM and might have a slight disadvantage at some top schools. For example Columbia's 20% Asian probably means they take all the good number ones they can find, but NYU's 10% might be due to a conscious choice to not have an over-representation of Asian students... thus leading to rejecting/ waitlisting some otherwise qualified applicants.


21% this year was quite an anomaly. It is normally between 15-16%. Columbia had the same LSAT/GPA range with far fewer Asians last year, not to mention that LSAT is the one standardized test where whites continue to outperform Asians. I think NYU's lag in Asian and African American recruitment is better explained by its lack of appeal to those communities relative to Columbia.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Unemployed wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:OS, I want to believe you. I really do. But as the recipient of the worst URM boost in history - when there were maybe 5 Native males scoring in the 99th percentile - I have to laugh maniacally (and then cry a little bit) whenever someone talks about "holistic admissions."


This sucks... i don't know how you did not get more of a boost, I mean AA male splitters get massive ones and general consensus is that Native Americans get almost as much as them...

On a side note Asians are probably ORM and might have a slight disadvantage at some top schools. For example Columbia's 20% Asian probably means they take all the good number ones they can find, but NYU's 10% might be due to a conscious choice to not have an over-representation of Asian students... thus leading to rejecting/ waitlisting some otherwise qualified applicants.


21% this year was quite an anomaly. It is normally between 15-16%. Columbia had the same LSAT/GPA range with far fewer Asians last year, not to mention that LSAT is the one standardized test where whites continue to outperform Asians. I think NYU's lag in Asian and African American recruitment is better explained by its lack of appeal to those communities relative to Columbia.


Hmm, I'm not sure about this... Harvard's Asian percentage has held steady at around 10% a year and I doubt there is a "lack of appeal" for both communities. In fact Harvard has 10% Asian and 10% African American population.

While I don't think there is any hard or measurable disadvantage for Asians in the app process (a la UG admissions with the measurable SAT drop in comparison), looking at the profiles for % in the top schools does seem to show that there can still be a certain ceiling for percentage of Asians for some that choose to go this route due to diversity purposes.

elmagic
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby elmagic » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Nightrunner wrote:OS, I want to believe you. I really do. But as the recipient of the worst URM boost in history - when there were maybe 5 Native males scoring in the 99th percentile - I have to laugh maniacally (and then cry a little bit) whenever someone talks about "holistic admissions."


Is your GPA below 3.0? If it is the only school that would take you even as a Native American with a LSAT in the 99th percentile, is probably Northwestern, unless you ED'd at UVA. I think it's harder for adcomms to take below 3.0 URM's because doing so would be counter intuitive to the "theoretical foundations" of affirmative action. You'd probably be way better off with a 3.4 160 than a 2.4 170. Not saying both are equivalent.

Going back to OP's question, Blacks, especially Black males can get into almost every school other URM's can't given the same numbers. Look at LSN and people in the URM thread for examples. You have Black 3.4-3.5 and 160-164's getting into the T-6 while similar numbered Mexican-American, PR, NA barely getting into the T-14.
Some examples notice the differences:
AA
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/RandM/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ricecake/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/MartianManhunter/jd
M-A/PR
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/viapaz/jd
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/NS210/jd

Of course this all has to be taken with a huge bag of salt because we all know numbers matter way less when it comes to URM's, but at least anecdotally it seems like Blacks receive incomparable boost relative to other URM's.

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Unemployed
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Unemployed » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:37 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
Unemployed wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:OS, I want to believe you. I really do. But as the recipient of the worst URM boost in history - when there were maybe 5 Native males scoring in the 99th percentile - I have to laugh maniacally (and then cry a little bit) whenever someone talks about "holistic admissions."


This sucks... i don't know how you did not get more of a boost, I mean AA male splitters get massive ones and general consensus is that Native Americans get almost as much as them...

On a side note Asians are probably ORM and might have a slight disadvantage at some top schools. For example Columbia's 20% Asian probably means they take all the good number ones they can find, but NYU's 10% might be due to a conscious choice to not have an over-representation of Asian students... thus leading to rejecting/ waitlisting some otherwise qualified applicants.


21% this year was quite an anomaly. It is normally between 15-16%. Columbia had the same LSAT/GPA range with far fewer Asians last year, not to mention that LSAT is the one standardized test where whites continue to outperform Asians. I think NYU's lag in Asian and African American recruitment is better explained by its lack of appeal to those communities relative to Columbia.


Hmm, I'm not sure about this... Harvard's Asian percentage has held steady at around 10% a year and I doubt there is a "lack of appeal" for both communities. In fact Harvard has 10% Asian and 10% African American population.

While I don't think there is any hard or measurable disadvantage for Asians in the app process (a la UG admissions with the measurable SAT drop in comparison), looking at the profiles for % in the top schools does seem to show that there can still be a certain ceiling for percentage of Asians for some that choose to go this route due to diversity purposes.


Harvard is a serious exception - it's one of only two T14 schools where Asians don't significantly outnumber African Americans. Harvard you can make a case for the existence of "Asian quota" because its appeal is universal (and they don't have to play the "diversity game" to get diversity). NYU, just like Columbia, is always looking for ways to increase its diversity, even if that means significant overrepresentation by Asians.

TTTeacher
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby TTTeacher » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:01 pm

If you think that Hispanics who aren't Mexican or Puerto Rican are treated the same as whites and Asians in law school admissions, then you are an idiot. Period.

TTTeacher
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby TTTeacher » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:12 am

Nightrunner wrote:
TTTeacher wrote:If you think that Hispanics who aren't Mexican or Puerto Rican are treated the same as whites and Asians in law school admissions, then you are an idiot. Period.

I hope you teach better than you read. That poster was differentiating among URM groups.


I wasn't responding to the poster; I was responding to the people who constantly claim that Hispanics who aren't Mexican or Puerto Rican aren't given boosts.

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baboon309
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby baboon309 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:16 am

TTTeacher wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
TTTeacher wrote:If you think that Hispanics who aren't Mexican or Puerto Rican are treated the same as whites and Asians in law school admissions, then you are an idiot. Period.

I hope you teach better than you read. That poster was differentiating among URM groups.


I wasn't responding to the poster; I was responding to the people who constantly claim that Hispanics who aren't Mexican or Puerto Rican aren't given boosts.


+100000000000000000000

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Pleasye
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Pleasye » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:46 am

I had a laugh at the 2010 census, when I had to describe the race of my two south american room mates, I asked them if they were white, black or cholo. First of all, cholo is nearly a racial derogatory term in Spanish, second, what we might call a cholo in the US is very different than what a south american would consider as a cholo. So, I described them as white, though their parents were both mixed racially between Spanish/Indigenous.


I highly doubt your census form said "cholo". seriously.

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Captain Jack
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Captain Jack » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:51 am

Outside of Native Americans, Black males are heavily favored in the admissions cycles mainly because there are relatively so few black males in law schools. Hell, on some campuses, the black female population doubles, and even triples, the amount of black males.

Now come to think of it, that ratio would probably work in my favor in terms of dating (assuming I will have anything that mirrors a social life).

byunbee
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby byunbee » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:05 am

Captain Jack wrote:Now come to think of it, that ratio would probably work in my favor in terms of dating (assuming I will have anything that mirrors a social life).


Well you are Cap'n Jack. You're 6'6" and a millionaire.

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Captain Jack
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Re: Are different minorities favored during admissions?

Postby Captain Jack » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:16 pm

byunbee wrote:
Captain Jack wrote:Now come to think of it, that ratio would probably work in my favor in terms of dating (assuming I will have anything that mirrors a social life).


Well you are Cap'n Jack. You're 6'6" and a millionaire.



...and the most underrated player in the NBA.




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