Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
suthernbelle453
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Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby suthernbelle453 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:28 am

Ok, so I am definitely curious about this. I'm American Indian (like 1/8th or 1/16th), but I am unsure if this is appropriate to select in applications. Where would this go? In the ethnicity portion that's optional? Does this really help? Do I have to provide any kind of documentation to the law school or anything?

All responses appreciated!

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s0ph1e2007
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:29 am

suthernbelle453 wrote:Ok, so I am definitely curious about this. I'm American Indian (like 1/8th or 1/16th), but I am unsure if this is appropriate to select in applications. Where would this go? In the ethnicity portion that's optional? Does this really help? Do I have to provide any kind of documentation to the law school or anything?

All responses appreciated!


Ok if you dont even know how much you are then come on
be real, you know its not appropriate for you to check the box

suthernbelle453
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby suthernbelle453 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:40 am

You misunderstand. My great-grandmother was either 1/2 or 1/4 Choctaw(I am unsure because she died a few years ago and this is all coming from my grandmother, who told me to get more information about this because it supposedly helps), but we don't have the documentation, due to my great-grandparents being very poor and throwing away stuff like that. I know what I am, and whether I am 1/8th or 1/64th, it doesn't matter. All I am asking is if it would be worth pursuing the paperwork for the applications. Until today, I didn't know saying that I was Native American meant anything to law schools, so I am looking at all my options.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby hiromoto45 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:42 am

s0ph1e2007 wrote:
suthernbelle453 wrote:Ok, so I am definitely curious about this. I'm American Indian (like 1/8th or 1/16th), but I am unsure if this is appropriate to select in applications. Where would this go? In the ethnicity portion that's optional? Does this really help? Do I have to provide any kind of documentation to the law school or anything?

All responses appreciated!


Ok if you dont even know how much you are then come on
be real, you know its not appropriate for you to check the box


if you don't have a tribal card, documentation, or involved in the culture don't claim it on the application. Why? Cause if you can't prove it and then you seem unethical. I didn't claim because of those reasons. But if you are not asked to prove it then its up to you.

Some AI groups you have to be a certain percentage to qualify...look into that. I think 1/64th isn't going to cut it. Pursue the documentation it can only help.

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Anastasia Dee Dualla
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby Anastasia Dee Dualla » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:47 am

I say this about every two months...if you are involved with the community, align with the culture (before law school applications :) ), and aren't just doing it to get a cheap bump; then sure check it.

If you check it now and didn't before, it will bite you in the ass come C&F time.

Just saying.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby hiromoto45 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:56 am

Anastasia Dee Dualla wrote:I say this about every two months...if you are involved with the community, align with the culture (before law school applications :) ), and aren't just doing it to get a cheap bump; then sure check it.

If you check it now and didn't before, it will bite you in the ass come C&F time.

Just saying.


I'm pretty sure a good number of people have AI ancestry but cannot prove it because of lack of documentation, like the OP stated above about her great-grandmother. Also I don't think it will help much if you check AI and White or any other ethnicity. Just AI gets the boost or a boost that would significantly change your chances. Adcomms can see through applications that claim a faint link to AI lineage.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:03 am

Unlike other racial identities, schools tend to want you to be a registered member of a Native American tribe, or else they won't give you a URM boost. It's easier for them to verify, so they do.

suthernbelle453
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby suthernbelle453 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:08 am

Thank you for all your replies! I really appreciate them! Like I said, I'm just trying to find out information about this. I haven't actually applied to law school yet. I'm not sure how to even go about getting documentation (my great-grandmother didn't even have her birth certificate because they were so poor), or if it even matters. I'm definitely not doing this just for a bump. I grew up hearing stories about the tribe, it's culture, things my great-grandmother participated in, etc., so I do feel a large connection with the tribe, even if I don't have that documentation. However, I don't want to mark it down and then when it comes for me to take the bar or the law school asks for it, I don't have the required documentation and I am screwed. That is not what I want at all, so I am just asking questions and seeing what the facts are.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby hiromoto45 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:23 am

suthernbelle453 wrote:Thank you for all your replies! I really appreciate them! Like I said, I'm just trying to find out information about this. I haven't actually applied to law school yet. I'm not sure how to even go about getting documentation (my great-grandmother didn't even have her birth certificate because they were so poor), or if it even matters. I'm definitely not doing this just for a bump. I grew up hearing stories about the tribe, it's culture, things my great-grandmother participated in, etc., so I do feel a large connection with the tribe, even if I don't have that documentation. However, I don't want to mark it down and then when it comes for me to take the bar or the law school asks for it, I don't have the required documentation and I am screwed. That is not what I want at all, so I am just asking questions and seeing what the facts are.


Well you can always write about your exposure to the culture in the essays on the applications.

suthernbelle453
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby suthernbelle453 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:56 am

Thanks again for the replies. I'm going to research it a little more in the next few days (call the ABA, law schools I'm applying to, etc.) and find out for sure what their requirements are, before making my final decision about it. The last thing I want is for the ABA to think that I am unethical. Any more advice, facts, responses, etc. is greatly appreciated!

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Anastasia Dee Dualla
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby Anastasia Dee Dualla » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:51 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:
Anastasia Dee Dualla wrote:I say this about every two months...if you are involved with the community, align with the culture (before law school applications :) ), and aren't just doing it to get a cheap bump; then sure check it.

If you check it now and didn't before, it will bite you in the ass come C&F time.

Just saying.


I'm pretty sure a good number of people have AI ancestry but cannot prove it because of lack of documentation, like the OP stated above about her great-grandmother. Also I don't think it will help much if you check AI and White or any other ethnicity. Just AI gets the boost or a boost that would significantly change your chances. Adcomms can see through applications that claim a faint link to AI lineage.


My point was not that he needed documentation. To the contrary, my emphasis was on what he had checked in the past. If you didn't check it when registering for LSAC, undergrad, SAT, etc. It is going to seem very very shady when you try to check it for law school applications. Racial identity musn't serve as something that is identified only when it is convenient. Not that I am saying that is the case with OP. Just bringing up a valid point.

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r2b2ct
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby r2b2ct » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:26 am

suthernbelle453 wrote:Ok, so I am definitely curious about this. I'm American Indian (like 1/8th or 1/16th), but I am unsure if this is appropriate to select in applications. Where would this go? In the ethnicity portion that's optional? Does this really help? Do I have to provide any kind of documentation to the law school or anything?

All responses appreciated!

If you have to ask whether it is appropriate or ethical to select a certain ethnicity on applications, then it's probably not.

Put it in your diversity statement if it has really helped shape your life. If its just trivia, ignore it.

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:13 pm

From the 2000 Census: an AI/AN is "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.” Do you satisfy the second aspect? Are you affiliated with a tribe or actively involved in an American Indian community?

lightbulb1986
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby lightbulb1986 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:49 pm

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Last edited by lightbulb1986 on Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Anastasia Dee Dualla
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby Anastasia Dee Dualla » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:15 pm

WhiskeyGuy wrote:From the 2000 Census: an AI/AN is "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.” Do you satisfy the second aspect? Are you affiliated with a tribe or actively involved in an American Indian community?


TCR

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YCrevolution
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby YCrevolution » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:16 pm

..

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LAWLAW09
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby LAWLAW09 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:33 pm

WhiskeyGuy wrote:From the 2000 Census: an AI/AN is "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.” Do you satisfy the second aspect? Are you affiliated with a tribe or actively involved in an American Indian community?




If I had to guess -- and it is a guess -- native americans didnt come up with that definition.

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:37 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:From the 2000 Census: an AI/AN is "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.” Do you satisfy the second aspect? Are you affiliated with a tribe or actively involved in an American Indian community?




If I had to guess -- and it is a guess -- native americans didnt come up with that definition.


Why? Having AI blood and being involved with AIs in some way sounds pretty darn reasonable. It is unique among URMs; "Indianness" is a political definition as well.

With that said, I pasted the above to serve a general guideline for folks who are considering whether to claim AI on an application--they need to be able to address both aspects. Folks can most certainly self-identify as Indian regardless of what the Census states.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby LAWLAW09 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:54 pm

WhiskeyGuy wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:From the 2000 Census: an AI/AN is "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.” Do you satisfy the second aspect? Are you affiliated with a tribe or actively involved in an American Indian community?




If I had to guess -- and it is a guess -- native americans didnt come up with that definition.


Why?




The dominant culture (in this context, dominant in numbers, wealth, political and military strength, etc.) usually does not create or accept definitions that jeopardize their interest or weakens their dominance. If it is a matter of ethics, the OP should be able to craft an argument that goes beyond the norm (i.e being aware of and/or accepting, at the time of the sat or even lsat, debatable definitions at).

Not saying this eliminates the potential consequences that result from NOT falling in line with predetermined definitions and rules but I think the argument, "you are not X because you do not fit into the definition that X was forced to accept by Y (a definition that benefits Y far more than X)" would be a hard one for me to swallow and not an impossible one for someone to argue successfully against.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby LAWLAW09 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:56 pm

WhiskeyGuy wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:From the 2000 Census: an AI/AN is "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.” Do you satisfy the second aspect? Are you affiliated with a tribe or actively involved in an American Indian community?




If I had to guess -- and it is a guess -- native americans didnt come up with that definition.


Why? Having AI blood and being involved with AIs in some way sounds pretty darn reasonable. It is unique among URMs; "Indianness" is a political definition as well.

With that said, I pasted the above to serve a general guideline for folks who are considering whether to claim AI on an application--they need to be able to address both aspects. Folks can most certainly self-identify as Indian regardless of what the Census states.



I feel you. Your post was helpful and informative.

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WhiskeyGuy
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Re: Responses Appreciated! URM AI question!

Postby WhiskeyGuy » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:15 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:
WhiskeyGuy wrote:From the 2000 Census: an AI/AN is "a person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.” Do you satisfy the second aspect? Are you affiliated with a tribe or actively involved in an American Indian community?




If I had to guess -- and it is a guess -- native americans didnt come up with that definition.


Why?




The dominant culture (in this context, dominant in numbers, wealth, political and military strength, etc.) usually does not create or accept definitions that jeopardize their interest or weakens their dominance. If it is a matter of ethics, the OP should be able to craft an argument that goes beyond the norm (i.e being aware of and/or accepting, at the time of the sat or even lsat, debatable definitions at).

Not saying this eliminates the potential consequences that result from NOT falling in line with predetermined definitions and rules but I think the argument, "you are not X because you do not fit into the definition that X was forced to accept by Y (a definition that benefits Y far more than X)" would be a hard one for me to swallow and not an impossible one for someone to argue successfully against.


Good point, and this is especially true for those whose tribes have not been federally recognized.

Keep in mind, though, that the 564 federally recognized tribes have great responsibility in determining who is Indian. The most frequent way someone becomes affiliated or involved with a tribe is through tribal enrollment, which means each tribe is able to help define who and what is Indian. That's not a bad deal.




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