At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)

At what point should one seriously consider Howard?

T14 or Howard
12
13%
T20 or Howard
15
16%
T30 or Howard
28
29%
T1/T2 or Howard
41
43%
 
Total votes: 96

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newyorker88
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby newyorker88 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:38 pm

Rand M. wrote: Placement>Bar Passage Rates. Guess that's just me.


How so? What jobs are you going to be doing if you can't pass the bar?

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Rand M.
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby Rand M. » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:48 pm

newyorker88 wrote:
Rand M. wrote: Placement>Bar Passage Rates. Guess that's just me.


How so? What jobs are you going to be doing if you can't pass the bar?


That is true. The 40% that don't pass the bar are getting no love. But for those at the top of the class they will have access to jobs that not even schools in the mid-20s and 30s could dream of. For instance, a firm like Wachtell hires Howard grads, whereas it will be difficult even at a school like WUSTL.

This is the list of schools at which Wachtell does on campus interviews:

Columbia University Law School
Harvard Law School
Howard University School of Law
New York University School of Law
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Yale Law School

This sort of list, while one example, is indicative of the kind of placement that Howard enjoys. They have several times the number of firms present at OCI than do most of the schools even in T1. My only point all along has been that certain options will be available to a Howard grad and not to other grads.

Yes, if you fail the bar then you are screwed, but this is the case EVERYWHERE. And if you fail the bar after going through Howard, you would have likely failed the bar after graduating from Columbia. See where I am coming from?

Oban
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby Oban » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:03 pm

I'd rather finish median at howard than any school outside t14/20ish


Howard has better firms come to OCI then schools rank similar or 30 spots above it. If you are a black male and you want the DC/NYC market, i think it would be a mistake to pay sticker to go fordham or GW when you could go to howard for free.

Law Review at Howard = watchel.


Anyway, clearly that newyork dude is a pretisge whore, like most of us really. I mean id much rather have Columbia on my resume than howard, just for ego/pretige reasons, but i'm not blinded enough by statistics and money to follow rankings and prestige. I only went to a top 10 undergrad because it was completely free, if i didnt get the monies i would have gone to my local state school.
Last edited by Oban on Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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newyorker88
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby newyorker88 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:08 pm

Rand M. wrote:
newyorker88 wrote:
Rand M. wrote: Placement>Bar Passage Rates. Guess that's just me.


How so? What jobs are you going to be doing if you can't pass the bar?


That is true. The 40% that don't pass the bar are getting no love. But for those at the top of the class they will have access to jobs that not even schools in the mid-20s and 30s could dream of. For instance, a firm like Wachtell hires Howard grads, whereas it will be difficult even at a school like WUSTL.

This is the list of schools at which Wachtell does on campus interviews:

Columbia University Law School
Harvard Law School
Howard University School of Law
New York University School of Law
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Yale Law School

This sort of list, while one example, is indicative of the kind of placement that Howard enjoys. They have several times the number of firms present at OCI than do most of the schools even in T1. My only point all along has been that certain options will be available to a Howard grad and not to other grads.

Yes, if you fail the bar then you are screwed, but this is the case EVERYWHERE. And if you fail the bar after going through Howard, you would have likely failed the bar after graduating from Columbia. See where I am coming from?



I don't think so. I think Columbia would have prepared you adequately to pass it. That is my position, that bar passage rate is an indicator of the quality of the education you recieve at a school. I don't believe race is the dominating factor.
Last edited by newyorker88 on Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oban
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby Oban » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:09 pm

Ok mang, go to wherever has a high bar passage rate pleases you. We are beating a dead horse hear.



Also, once again. Schools do not prepare you for the bar. There is no bar 101 class at columbia. In fact, the higher up you go, the less rules/statutes/etc they teach you amd the more they teach you theory. So you learn less of the relavent stuff for the Bar. Thus most if not all t14 grads go to bar/bri to pass the bar. Every T14 grad i know has explained this to me.

Edit: even Ken, the guy who founded this site said this: Top schools do not train you for the bar, they are more academic/theory based.
Last edited by Oban on Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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kurama20
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby kurama20 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:09 pm

newyorker88 wrote:
Rand M. wrote:
newyorker88 wrote:
Rand M. wrote: Placement>Bar Passage Rates. Guess that's just me.


How so? What jobs are you going to be doing if you can't pass the bar?


That is true. The 40% that don't pass the bar are getting no love. But for those at the top of the class they will have access to jobs that not even schools in the mid-20s and 30s could dream of. For instance, a firm like Wachtell hires Howard grads, whereas it will be difficult even at a school like WUSTL.

This is the list of schools at which Wachtell does on campus interviews:

Columbia University Law School
Harvard Law School
Howard University School of Law
New York University School of Law
Stanford Law School
University of Chicago Law School
University of Pennsylvania Law School
Yale Law School

This sort of list, while one example, is indicative of the kind of placement that Howard enjoys. They have several times the number of firms present at OCI than do most of the schools even in T1. My only point all along has been that certain options will be available to a Howard grad and not to other grads.

Yes, if you fail the bar then you are screwed, but this is the case EVERYWHERE. And if you fail the bar after going through Howard, you would have likely failed the bar after graduating from Columbia. See where I am coming from?



I don't think so. I think Columbia would have prepared you adequately to pass it.


Top law schools don't do bar prep man.

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Rand M.
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby Rand M. » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Oban wrote:Ok mang, go to wherever has a high bar passage rate pleases you. We are beating a dead horse hear.


+1

New Yorker has turned into serious flame/lame/denial/uninformed/thread

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newyorker88
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby newyorker88 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:12 pm

kurama20 wrote:Top law schools don't do bar prep man.


I'm aware, that's what bar review is for. I was referring to having a solid foundation not actual test prep.

Oban
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby Oban » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:13 pm

newyorker88 wrote:
kurama20 wrote:Top law schools don't do bar prep man.


I'm aware, that's what bar review is for. I was referring to having a solid foundation not actual test prep.



you aren't going to learn more rules/statues/nyc property law needed to pass the bar at columbia or NYC then you will at hofstra. You will probably learn less, as hofstra is super conserned with gettings it less academicly equiped students to pass.

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newyorker88
Posts: 614
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby newyorker88 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:14 pm

Oban wrote:Ok mang, go to wherever has a high bar passage rate pleases you. We are beating a dead horse hear.



Also, once again. Schools do not prepare you for the bar. There is no bar 101 class at columbia. In fact, the higher up you go, the less rules/statutes/etc they teach you amd the more they teach you theory. So you learn less of the relavent stuff for the Bar. Thus most if not all t14 grads go to bar/bri to pass the bar. Every T14 grad i know has explained this to me.

Edit: even Ken, the guy who founded this site said this: Top schools do not train you for the bar, they are more academic/theory based.



I'm fully aware of that, read previous post and I wouldn't just go to any school with a high bar passage rate that's one of many factors I would look at.

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billyez
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby billyez » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:33 pm

Well, anyway, I'm applying to Howard. I was thinking about it for awhile but this thread convinced - plus, a guy at the barber shop reminded me about HBC and I recalled Howard's Law School. It has good name recognition, is in DC, and I have a heck of a better chance of getting in with money than I do in other places. Let's roll the dice...

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ATOIsp07
Posts: 333
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby ATOIsp07 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:48 pm

Oban wrote:
ATOIsp07 wrote: With money being the same (or a non-factor) and no preference in location of practice, I'd go to Cardozo over Howard in terms of overall quality. Howard's bar passage rate is kinda too screwy.

As a matter of fact, in DC, I'd go to G'town, GW and even American over Howard. But that's of course with money being a non-factor.



Pre ITE, Howard placed better in NYC Biglaw than brooklyn or dozo. Just sayin.


that's an excellent point. but what about as of lately? i would love to see the stats (and I'm not trying to be a douche by any means) since I am applying there.

Oban
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby Oban » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:55 pm

check out the 2008 NALP chart floating around on the site, the one where big law is dark blue

Howard is 7th after Yale, Penn, Columbia, NYU, Cornell, Fordham.

There is a large drop then brooklyn then dozo. then the hofstras and such. Honeslty ITE this economy i wouldnt be suprised if howard is placing even better. I'm sure some firms have stopped even going to brooklyn and dozo but still go to howard to chery pick URMs. I'll let you know when i visit next month and talk to 2ls about OCI.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby ATOIsp07 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:59 pm

Oban wrote:check out the 2008 NALP chart floating around on the site, the one where big law is dark blue

Howard is 7th after Yale, Penn, Columbia, NYU, Cornell, Fordham.

There is a large drop then brooklyn then dozo. then the hofstras and such. Honeslty ITE this economy i wouldnt be suprised if howard is placing even better. I'm sure some firms have stopped even going to brooklyn and dozo but still go to howard to chery pick URMs. I'll let you know when i visit next month and talk to 2ls about OCI.



please let me know after your visit. it'd be helpful as all hell! and congrats on the big money from Howard btw!

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PDaddy
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Re: At what point should one seriously consider Howard? (Poll)

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:33 am

Does it ever occur to anyone on TLS or LSD that people might attend a school like Howard because they seek a welcoming environment in which the school's values mesh with those of the student?

There are people who can get into top schools who choose Howard. Howard gets URM's with 165+ LSAT's and GPA's above 3.7. It's not fair to assume that a person attends Howard because they couldn't get into a top-20 or even a top school. I am one of those people who is considering Howard, mainly because I am tired of going to school with stuck-up, arrogant white students. Not that they are all that way. Certainly many are not. But I want to be welcomed.

I want to know that the students at my school value me as a human being and do not consider themselves "innately superior" to me. That is the reason so many black students who could attend Ivy League (UG, grad and professional) schools attend HBCU's instead. It's about "values" and "value".




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