Job ideas for people who can't get a job through OCI

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bocifious
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Job ideas for people who can't get a job through OCI

Postby bocifious » Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:05 am

So, I decided I was going to make a thread about the Fall Job hunt for upcoming 2Ls, including OCI, job strategies, interview information, etc. Once I realized how huge the first post would be I figured it might be better if I just made it as a blog with a new entry for each category. Of course, I will still be taking suggestions and comments via PM, so hopefully you guys can help me answer some questions I might not have answers to about fall interviews and the summer job search for 2Ls. Hopefully this blog will be helpful to everyone, especially the people who go to the schools that I have firsthand information for. Check back soon.

-boc
Last edited by bocifious on Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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bocifious
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2L Fall Job Hunt Informational Blog - Today's Topic: Consort

Postby bocifious » Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:51 am

Consortiums


My school participates in the Midwest-Cali consortium. For those who don't know, the consortium takes place in Los Angeles, D.C., and New York, and consists of Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, WUSTL, UCLA, and USC. Consortiums are a valuable resource because it allows students to interview with firms in their home city/state while they are home for the summer, and it also allows them to interview with firms that otherwise might not come out to their school for OCI. I will post all the information I have about the consortium because of its benefit to future students of the schools involved.


Los Angeles/West Coast
Participating schools: Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Wash U

Participating firms and relevant info (note: from the people I have talked to, the class rank requirments are pretty on the money, meaning that if you are within the requirement or close but with lots of good resume stuff you should probably get an interview):

O'Melveny & [deleted] - interviewing for LA, Century city, Newport Beach, San Francisco, and Silicon valley
Fennemore Craig - Interviewing for Phoenix
Lewis and Roca - Interviewing for Phoenix and Las Vegas. Top 20% class rank.
McCormick Barstow - Interviewing for Fresno, CA. Top half class rank.
McDonald Carano Wilson - Interviewing for Las Vegas. Top 20% class rank.
Santoro Driggs - Interviewing for Las Vegas. Top third class rank.
Steptoe & Johnson - Interviewing for Phoenix.
Downey Brand - Interviewing for Sacramento.
Pillsbury Winthrop - Interviewing for Los Angeles. Top 20% class rank.
Cooley Godward - Interviewing for Broomfield, CO, Palo Alto, San Diego, San Francisco. Top 25% class rank.
Skadden Arps - Interviewing for Los Angeles. No rank cutoff listed, but I know someone within the top 20% who got an interview.
Seltzer Caplan - Interviewing for San Diego. Top 25% class rank.
Simpson Thacher - Interviewing for Palo Alto. Top 25% class rank.
Christie, Parker & Hale - Interviewing for Pasadena and Newport Beach. 3.00 GPA required and a science degree for IP (note: 3.00 at my school puts you in the bottom 25%. I wish I had a science degree.)
Blakely Sokoloff Taylor - Interviewing for Los Angeles. Requires EE, CS, or CE degree.
Snell & Wilmer - Interviewing for Phoenix, Tucson, Costa Mesa, Salt Lake City, Denver, and Las Vegas. Top 30% class rank.
Best Best & Krieger - Interviewing for Irvine, Los Angeles, Ontario, Riverside, Sacramento, and San Diego. Top 30% class rank.
Sheppard Mullin - Interviewing for Los Angeles, Del Mar, Costa Mesa, San Diego. Top 25% class rank.
Alverson, Taylor, Mortensen & Sanders - Interviewing for Las Vegas. Top 40% class rank.
Morgan Lewis - Interviewing for Palo Alto and San Francisco. Top 25% class rank got my buddy an interview.
Shook, Hardy & Bacon - Interviewing for Kansas City (?), Irvine, and San Francisco. Top 20% class rank.
Gibson Dunn - Interviewing for Los Angeles. Top 20% class rank.
San Diego County PD office


Washington DC/Mid-Atlantic
Participating Schools: UCLA, USC, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin

Participating Firms and Relevant Info:

Arnold and Porter - Interviewing DC
Cadwalader, WIckersham & Taft - Interviewing DC. Class ranks required: UCLA - top 40%, USC - top 40%, Iowa - top 25%, Minnesota - top 25%, Wisconsin - top 20% [interesting].
Cleary Gottlieb - Interviewing DC
Cooley Godward - Interviewing Palo Alto, DC, and Reston, VA. Top 25% class rank.
Covington & Burling - Interviewing DC. Top 15% class rank.
Dechert - Interviewing Philly.
FEC - top 33%
FTC - Bureau of Competition
FTC - Bureau of Consumer Protection
Goodwin Procter - Interviewing DC
Hogan & Hartson - Interviewing DC
Kirkland & Ellis - Interviewing DC
Miller & Chevalier - Interviewing DC
Nuclear Regulatory Commission - Rockville, MD. Top 33% class rank.
Office of Legislative Counsel, House of Reps - DC, top 33% class rank.
Patton Boggs - Interviewing for DC, Newark, Dallas, and Denver. Top 25% class rank.
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. - Office of General Counsel
Philly DA Office
Potter Anderson - Interviewing for Wilmington, DE
Reed Smith - All Locations Nationwide. Top 20% class rank.
Richards, Layton & Finger - Interviewing for Wilmington, DE. Top 40% class rank.
Ropes and Gray - Interviewing for Boston, NYC, Chicago, Palo Alto, San Francisco, Washington DC.
Sterne, Kessler - Interviewing DC. top 30% class rank with hard science degree.
Sughrue Mion - Interviewing DC. Technical background required.
Sutherland Asbill & Brennan - Interviewing for Atlanta and DC. Top 25% class rank.
SEC - DC, NYC, Miami, San Fran, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Philly, Denver, Fort Worth, Salt Lake City. B average or higher.
United States Senate Office of the Legislative Counsel - Interviewing for DC. top 33% of class.
Van Ness Feldman - Interviewing for DC
Willkie Farr & Gallagher - Interviewing for DC


New York/Northeast
Participating Schools: UCLA, USC, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin

Participating Firms and Relevant Info:

Axinn Veltrop - Interviewing for Hartford, CT. 3.0 GPA or higher.
Baker & McKenzie - Interviewing for NYC
Cahill Gordon - Interviewing for NYC. Top 10-15% class rank.
Chadbourne & Parke - Interviewing for NYC. Top 15% class rank.
Cleary Gottlieb - NYC. 3.5 GPA or higher.
Cravath - NYC
Davis Polk - NYC, Menlo Park
Dechert - NYC
Fried Frank - NYC. Top 15% class rank.
Hogan & Hartson - NYC
Jones Day - NYC
Kaye Scholer - NYC. 3.3 GPA.
Kirkland & Ellis - NYC. Top 25% class rank.
Mintz Levin - NYC. Top 30% class rank.
Moses & Singer - NYC. Top 25% class rank.
O'Melveny & [deleted] - NYC. Top 15% class rank.
Paul Weiss - NYC. Top 15% class rank.
Pepper Hamilton - Philly. Top 20% class rank or URM.
Ropes & Gray - Boston, NYC, Palo Alto, San Francisco, DC.
Schulte Roth - NYC
Seward & Kissel - NYC. Top 20% class rank.
Shipman & Goodwin - Hartford and Stamford, CT.
Sidley Austin - NYC. Minnesota - top 10%, Iowa - top 10%, Wisconsin - top 10%, UCLA - 3.4 or above (anyone know where this puts you in the ranks?), USC - top 33%
Skadden - NYC
Weil Gotshal - NYC. Top 10%
White & Case - NYC. 3.3 GPA minimum.
Willkie Farr - NYC


Anyone else have any info on any other consortium? PM me and I will post it.

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bocifious
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Black's Law Dictionary

Postby bocifious » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:57 pm

Black's Law Dictionary:

I know a lot of schools (like mine) will try and sell you a Black's Law Dictionary with your books first semester. Do not purchase it. It is not worth the money, and you will not use it. Both Lexis and Westlaw have law dictionaries you can search very easily (way easier than going through that huge book), and you can also find most answers on the internet. Buying an expensive Black's Law Dictionary is not worth it, unless you want it solely because it looks pretty nice on your bookshelf.

That is all (I know this doesn't fit with the theme of this blog. I will have more information soon, I am very busy with OCI sign-ups right now).

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bocifious
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:18 am

Re: Black's Law Dictionary: DO NOT BUY

Postby bocifious » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:24 pm

I posted this in the Class of 2011 forum, but will repeat here: If you go to Minnesota and want to know how OCI worked out for me (California resident who moved out to Minnesota for school and wants to work in CA/Minneapolis) send me a pm.

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bocifious
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Re: Black's Law Dictionary: DO NOT BUY

Postby bocifious » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:25 pm

I posted this in the Forum for law students but will reproduce here so more people can see it. Hopefully it will be of help. If you have suggestions go to that forum and post in the threat. Thanks :D

So, I know there are many of you out there who for some reason or another (don't go to a T-14, grades suck, want to move regions, OCI sucks) aren't going to be getting a summer job through OCI. I thought that we could start a thread on ways to get jobs without going through oci. There are a few things I will be doing that I thought I would share, and feel free to post your own advice.

Networking

It probably goes without saying that "knowing someone" is probably the easiest way to get a job. The first thing would be whether or not someone in your family is/was a lawyer, a family friend works at a firm, or if someone you know works for a business that uses a firm regularly and can help you out. Hit up everyone. I am serious about this. Don't feel bad or ashamed to ask your third cousin (twice removed) to get you an interview at the firm he is a partner at. Of course you want to be subtle about it, but talk to them. Ask them about how they found a job, and if they have any advice. This goes for the next section as well. Find alumni from your school in firms you want to work at. This can be done pretty easily, either through Martindale or Lexis (LinkRemoved), or by searching for attorneys by school name on their firm website. Once you find some alumni, send out some feelers. They probably know what you are going through and it won't look weird at all that you are contacting them. This is especially true for alumni in far off states and markets if you went to a regional heavy school. That partner in Los Angeles went to "regional school not in California" also, so they will have some advice on how to make that same jump, and they will probably be happy to help you.


Sending out resumes

This is the main method for people I know who want to find jobs out of state when their oci prospects aren't so good. I am sending out some resumes myself. Not every firm you want to work at will be at your oci. Normally, starting now and continuing through August is the time to send out resumes. You can either mail everything, or just craft a nice e-mail and attach your resume, transcript, cover letter, etc. YOU WILL WANT TO WRITE A COVER LETTER! This is important. You are randomly contacting these firms. Be enthusiastic and let them know why you want to work there. I really don't know the success rate with this, as it probably varies based on your credentials, but if you are a highly ranked student at a good school with a good connection to that firm/city you should have a chance of getting an interview. Check out where the firm interviews to get a better idea of your shot. A lot of smaller firms can't really go across the country interviewing at oci; this doesn't mean they wouldn't love to have someone from your school work at their firm. Other bigger firms can only go so many places; they probably still interview at comparable schools to yours, and if you have the grades you might have a shot at landing an interview. Look on NALP to see where these firms interview. If a San Francisco firm you want to work at interviews on campus as Iowa, and you are at Wisconsin, then you probably have a shot at getting an interview if your grades are good enough. Be willing to drive (or fly) to another state to have an interview. Also, I have have conflicting advice about contacting firms through mass mailings.

One of my career services directors told me to write in my cover letter something along the lines of "I will call you in a few weeks to set up an interview" instead of just telling them to feel free to contact you, and that you look forward to hearing from them. I know a student who took this advice and was told by the recruiting coordinator that it was presumptuous to suggest such a thing. I'm not really sure what to make of this advice. It does seem a little off to say that you will call them to set up an interview (especially if you aren't a sure thing), but I think it might be a good idea to call a firm a couple of weeks after you send them your materials and see what is up.

If you are looking to work in a specific area and don't really care about what firm you end up at (or if you just want to apply to all the firms in that area), there are some tools you can use to search for firms. The best tool (IMO) is the NALP directory. Just search by state or city, and it will list all the firms in that city that fill out the NALP forms. Most big firms will have a NALP form, along with a good amount of medium sized firms and some small firms, though probably not many with under 10 lawyers total. You can get all the info you want about a firm off NALP, including the offices, number of attorneys in each office, salary, summer associate hiring info (including how many offers they made to summers), and most importantly, the contact info for the recruiting coordinator at the firm you want to contact. It will probably list the recruiting contact for the office along with the hiring partner. I know some people who swear by only sending resumes to the hiring partner, but from my experience (and those I have talked to) it doesn't really make a difference (exception: you have a contact with the firm that the hiring partner might know, the hiring partner went to your school, or the hiring partner is your uncle). One last note: I have seen some firms on NALP enter different information for the city than what you would expect, such as "Orange County" under city ( :roll: I know right) instead of "Newport Beach". It doesn't hurt to search for all firms in your state and then compile a list from that. Also, some firms will have online applications. It doesn't hurt to look for these via a quick browse of the site. If you have prepared for OCI, you can probably upload your documents to the firm in a few minutes using an online application.

A second tool that I like to use when sending out resumes is the Infirmation website. Click on your state, and then it will give you a list of firms in each city. I have found that a lot of the info on this site is out of date, such as the salary information, and that some of the firms and offices no longer exist, but I have found firms on here that weren't listed on NALP and I also like browsing the discussion boards.

Lastly, you can search Martindale for firms also. This is the way to find smaller firms in the area you want to work at, and to find firms in smaller cities that generally won't have any NALP firms. Beware though, some cities will still have a ton of firms, and it won't show you any results if you get more than a certain number of hits (I think 3,000). In that case, what I like to do is narrow the search down by number of attorneys or another function that will cut down the number of firms but still allow you to search over an entire city.

Job Postings

While this probably won't help you out right now, it can be useful later on in the year (and next year if you are looking for permanent employment). Some small firms will post summer associate positions on your school's job posting website (we use Symplicity, I think that is the most common one but I don't know about a lot of other schools). My school will ask for reciprocity with another school if you request it (example: you go to Temple, but you want to work in Los Angeles. Your school can get you a password for the Symplicity site at UCLA, USC, Loyola, etc. If those schools have a kid who wants to work in PA, they do the same). I have done this before with good results. You can also use job banks to look for positions. These are generally more helpful for finding permanent employment (same with school job postings), but you can find a summer position every now and then. You can find job banks on sites like Westlaw, Lexis, Vault, and Findlaw. Another great job bank is the BYU Law School Intercollegiate Job Bank (PM me for ID/Password if you school doesn't have one and maybe I will help you :wink: ). This bank lets you search by state to find different law schools, then has a big pdf of all the job postings at that school. A lot will be for permanent employment, but I have seen summer positions before.

Government Jobs

If you are like me, you have probably thought at some time, "Hmm, I'm a little worried about finding a summer associate position. I should look at some government positions in case nothing works out." Or maybe you already know you want to work for the government. There are a lot of government jobs out there. BE WARNED: I hear a lot of people talk about government jobs as if they are a safety net for not getting a summer position at a firm. THERE ARE MANY LAW STUDENTS! There are a lot of law students who also cannot find summer positions at firms. They will want these jobs. Also, a lot of the good federal jobs are located only in D.C. But, for some of these jobs the competition from the top schools isn't as harsh, and so they can be easily grabbed up by other T1 students. Some tips for finding these jobs: Check your career services office. Ours has a list of different government positions. Search government agency websites, under employment, and see if they need any attorneys. A lot of agencies use a lot of attorneys and will probably have some sort of a summer program. Search the Government Handbook that is put out by the University of Arizona College of Law each year. It has a ton of great information (pm me if you don't have/can't get a password, that link might work without a password needed). You can also use the DOJ Summer Law Intern Program website. The SLIP website has a ton of information on government summer jobs, and you can apply online through the website (NOTE: a lot of the applications are due SOON. I know some are due by the beginning of September. Don't be lazy, just get them done already). Lastly, you can use regular job banks, such as govtjobs, usajobs, and government jobs. Summer positions will be few and far between, but they are there. I have had a lot of luck finding local summer positions for my counties DA/PD office through the governmentjobs website.


Corporations

This will be hard, but I have found summer positions just by searching a corporations website. They might have a summer program with an online application for all you know. It doesn't hurt to search. Also, you can search NALP for corporations. Send them resumes if you are interested. It might be a long shot, but it can't hurt.

Public Interest

I haven't done much research into public interest jobs. I know some of them are very hard to get, others not so much. Some will pay you during the summer, others wont. Some have deadlines approaching quickly, and some you wont have to worry about for months. If anyone has more information then please post it. Check out Equal Justice Works (LinkRemoved), which is a huge career fair for public interest that takes place in October in Washington, D.C. It is open to all students and has free registration. You have to upload documents by September 12. You can also try PSLawNet. I have not used it but my career services department gave me the link and said it was helpful.



Well, that is it for me. Hopefully people can post other ideas/tips/suggestions they have, and this thread can be a real help for people who are looking for ways to get jobs other than OCI.




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