UCLA vs. UW

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amputatedbrain
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UCLA vs. UW

Postby amputatedbrain » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:58 pm

Money aside, which school would you all go to if you got into UCLA and U of Washington . . . I know all things being equal, UCLA is the obvious choice, but I also plan on living in the Seattle area, and I've heard that UW has a lock on the local legal market. Would the greater prestige of the UCLA degree make up for it? I'm just curious what the opinions are out there.

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A'nold
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby A'nold » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:04 pm

amputatedbrain wrote:Money aside, which school would you all go to if you got into UCLA and U of Washington . . . I know all things being equal, UCLA is the obvious choice, but I also plan on living in the Seattle area, and I've heard that UW has a lock on the local legal market. Would the greater prestige of the UCLA degree make up for it? I'm just curious what the opinions are out there.


Let's just say I am quite familiar with Seattle and know that UW is truly the "Harvard" of the NW. I don't think UCLA carries any more prestige and I'd say it carries less prestige than a UW degree. I think for a degree to outweigh a UW degree as far as Seattle prestige goes, you'd have to be talking Berkeley and up. I think UW beats Northwestern, Georgetown, Michigan, etc. Mind you, this is ONLY for Seattle. I will say though that I think UW might still trump UCLA in Oregon and Idaho. UCLA is more prestigious for the rest of the country I'd bet.

redginseng
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby redginseng » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:03 pm

I would agree with the above post. To me, TLS crowd seem to put more weight to US news and the idea of T14 than it really deserves. One really need to think about regional ties when choosing a law school.

In San Francisco where I'm from, I would think Hasting would be better choice than many T14 for getting a job in the bay area. Unless a SF firm flies over to that school for OCI, a degree from mid to lower T14 would not mean much.

I think it's was crazy someone who wants to practice in the bay area to pass UC Davis or Hasting over schools in T15 - T30. Same goes to which ever region that person wants to practice. For example, if you want to practice in Philly, go to Temple (ranked 60) instead of UCLA (ranked 15-16).

postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby postitnotes » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:31 am

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postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby postitnotes » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:34 am

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UCInfo
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby UCInfo » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:57 am

redginseng wrote:I would agree with the above post. To me, TLS crowd seem to put more weight to US news and the idea of T14 than it really deserves. One really need to think about regional ties when choosing a law school.

In San Francisco where I'm from, I would think Hasting would be better choice than many T14 for getting a job in the bay area. Unless a SF firm flies over to that school for OCI, a degree from mid to lower T14 would not mean much.

I think it's was crazy someone who wants to practice in the bay area to pass UC Davis or Hasting over schools in T15 - T30. Same goes to which ever region that person wants to practice. For example, if you want to practice in Philly, go to Temple (ranked 60) instead of UCLA (ranked 15-16).

This is placing too much importance on regionalism.

San Francisco has a lot of national firms. You will almost certainly be better off with a T14 degree trying to get into the SF market than with a Hastings or Davis degree. Even students at those two schools will acknowledge that. You can land a good SF job with a top performance at Hastings or Davis, but class rank being equal, it is simply more difficult than out of a T14. Read the Vault guide to SF jobs; many of the firms are looking for T14 grads.

The regional argument may have more merit if you're asking about UCLA vs. Cornell for Northern California. But even then, you'll have people who disagree.

Neelio
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby Neelio » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:01 pm

I live in NYC, and visited both campuses over the summer... Both gorgeous. One thing that is important to me is the quality of life wherever I move. Also, I'm a few years out of college now, and would like to make the place I go to school the place I practice and "settle down". Based on these criterion, I really liked UW more. In addition, the people in the admissions office were extremely friendly, and I even ended up catching a beer with a current student while he fielded some of my questions... I appreciated the personal touch and hope to make UW home if they let me in.

finalaspects
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby finalaspects » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:45 pm

It seems like T14 schools would be the obvious choice for almost any job in any location. However if those are not an option, whether its due to $$$ or acceptances, the best regional school should be better than 15-50 or so. Not saying the best school in that particular state, as the best school in a neighbor state may have better job placement.

Other wise imo I believe UCLA will break into the T14. Or the field will be grow to be the T15. This may take a few years or even a few decades but they are the best school in Southern California, and continues to constantly raise their stats. NY has 3 schools in the T14 (Columbia, NYU, Cornell), and I believe CA will as well (Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA).

This is all just my opinion and I may be biased being from the west and all.

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jcl2
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby jcl2 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:56 pm

A'nold wrote:
amputatedbrain wrote:Money aside, which school would you all go to if you got into UCLA and U of Washington . . . I know all things being equal, UCLA is the obvious choice, but I also plan on living in the Seattle area, and I've heard that UW has a lock on the local legal market. Would the greater prestige of the UCLA degree make up for it? I'm just curious what the opinions are out there.


Let's just say I am quite familiar with Seattle and know that UW is truly the "Harvard" of the NW. I don't think UCLA carries any more prestige and I'd say it carries less prestige than a UW degree. I think for a degree to outweigh a UW degree as far as Seattle prestige goes, you'd have to be talking Berkeley and up. I think UW beats Northwestern, Georgetown, Michigan, etc. Mind you, this is ONLY for Seattle. I will say though that I think UW might still trump UCLA in Oregon and Idaho. UCLA is more prestigious for the rest of the country I'd bet.


I think A'nold is right regarding UW vs UCLA for Seattle, lower T14 would be a little tougher. Lower T14 would probably get you a slightly better shot at biglaw in Seattle, but it would be a relatively slim shot either way, so if living in the NW is more important to someone than working Biglaw, UW would be the better choice. UW will definitely give you a big advantage for most midlaw, government, and PI jobs in the NW.

If you really are planning to live in the Seattle area and are deciding between UW and UCLA, I think UW is the obvious choice. And don't put money aside, UW will be significantly cheaper even if you have in-state tuition at UCLA.

Damon
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby Damon » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:58 pm

I see Cornell and perhaps Northwestern drop off the T14 in the future, making way for UCLA and Texas, whom I strongly believe are already better school than some of the T14s.

hayman
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby hayman » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:59 pm

i don't think nu will drop off below gtown.

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby of Benito Cereno » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:43 pm

why would Northwestern drop? their ranking has gone from 16 in 1987 to 10 in 2009. On the other hand Michigan has gone from 3 to 9.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:00 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:why would Northwestern drop? their ranking has gone from 16 in 1987 to 10 in 2009. On the other hand Michigan has gone from 3 to 9.


+1. If someone falls out it's GULC or Cornell. I don't know why it would be NU.

The t14 designation is significant and insignifcant at the same time. What matters is the opportunities attending that school presents, not the fact that GU is ranked 3 spots higher than Vandy. The importance of the T14 is national reach and the firms that recruit from these schools. I don't know that firms are going to say "Well, Texas tied GULC this year so we're not going there to interview."

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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby nycparalegal » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:13 pm

There is no way Cornell would drop out of the t-14.

They have great job placement all over the country, a nice size endowment, fantastic reputation, and they will aways have law school applicants who want an ivy brand on their resume.

edit: I actually see UCLA having trouble down the line, if the school keeps getting more and more expensive.

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jcl2
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby jcl2 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:18 pm

nycparalegal wrote:There is no way Cornell would drop out of the t-14.

They have great job placement all over the country, a nice size endowment, fantastic reputation, and they will aways have law school applicants who want an ivy brand on their resume.

edit: I actually see UCLA having trouble down the line, if the school keeps getting more and more expensive.


I agree with this. All of the CA schools except for Berkeley are going to have a tough time competing when their tuition is much higher than comparably ranked public schools and similar or slightly higher than similarly ranked private schools that offer more scholarship money.

Oh, and UCLA moving up or down a few spot has no bearing on OP's question IMO. UW would still be the better choice for someone who wants to end up in Seattle or the NW.

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blue16
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby blue16 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:25 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:why would Northwestern drop? their ranking has gone from 16 in 1987 to 10 in 2009. On the other hand Michigan has gone from 3 to 9.


Not to hijack, but just as a shameless Michigan plug, I have to debunk this thinking because I see it on here a lot.

Michigan didn't go "from 3 to 9". Michigan was ranked 3 in 1987 when US News used an entirely different scoring system. They stopped that system, took a year or two off from ranking law schools, and began again a few years later. Since then, under that system, Michigan has always been ranked between 7 and 9.

I point this out just because people try to use this "3 to 9" idea to show that Michigan has declined in quality/prospects, whereas in reality, it has maintained its strong position between 7 and 9 and was never one of the top 3 law schools in the country. It is my guess that under the 1987 system, Michigan would still be ranked in that 3 to 4 range.

Edit: As a tie in back to OP's question, I do agree that UW in Seattle would be better to attend other schools, including both UCLA and Michigan, especially considering the higher likelihood of a scholarship.
Last edited by blue16 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:27 pm

nycparalegal wrote:They have great job placement all over the country.


I disagree with this. Most of their grads stay in the NE.

nycparalegal wrote:edit: I actually see UCLA having trouble down the line, if the school keeps getting more and more expensive.


I agree with this.

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jks289
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby jks289 » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:28 pm

I think if you really plan to stay in Seattle then UW is smarter because it is cheaper and it will land you roughly the same job offers. However, are you POSITIVE about staying in Seattle? Plans change. Your spouse could get their dream job in the midwest. You may need a change of pace. I think if there is any chance you will leave you should do UCLA, for no other reason than better mobility.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:36 pm

amputatedbrain wrote:Money aside, which school would you all go to if you got into UCLA and U of Washington . . . I know all things being equal, UCLA is the obvious choice, but I also plan on living in the Seattle area, and I've heard that UW has a lock on the local legal market. Would the greater prestige of the UCLA degree make up for it? I'm just curious what the opinions are out there.


OP, sorry your thread got hijacked. I don't know anything about the Seattle legal market, but if your 100% certain you want to practice in Seattle, I would imagine UW would be the choice over UCLA. Go to the websites of the top firms in the area and see where most of the attorneys went to school. If you don't see very many UCLA resumes, that probably won't bode well. Also, bear in mind that you are going to be able to network much better from UW in case you strike out at OCI.

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amputatedbrain
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby amputatedbrain » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:53 pm

Appreciate all the input everyone. Seems like the general consensus is go to UW if I'm totally 100% sure I want to practice in Seattle, go to UCLA (assuming its the best school I can get into) if I decide I might want to move around . . . Money is not an issue by the way because I'll be using Veteran's benefits, and with the new GI Bill I don't think it matters whether the tuition is in/out state.

OG Loc
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby OG Loc » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:29 pm

You'll have a better chance at getting a good job in Seattle from Wash, but a better chance of getting a good job, period, from UCLA. So I guess it depends on how important living in Seattle is...the "go to the best school in the area you want to live" is played out IMO and really only applies if you must MUST live in that area. So at least do yourself the favor of visting both schools and the surrounding areas if you haven't already.

I've also heard that Seattle has a small legal market, so maybe look into that too. And at least at the big firms, schools will interview deeper into the class at a T14 than they will at UW - don't kid yourself on that. You can search nalpdirectory.com to see what legal entities are in Seattle and where they go for on-campus interviews. It doesn't help UW that Seattle is a nice place to live and an attractive option for graduates of more prestigious out of market schools - whereas schools in places like Baltimore, Indianapolis, Cleveland, St. Louis, etc don't have that problem and really do run their cities.

But since the military is paying for it, go where you want; you can't go wrong. Personally if I could go to either school for free I would be there in a heartbeat.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:17 pm

OG Loc wrote:You'll have a better chance at getting a good job in Seattle from Wash, but a better chance of getting a good job, period, from UCLA. So I guess it depends on how important living in Seattle is...the "go to the best school in the area you want to live" is played out IMO and really only applies if you must MUST live in that area. So at least do yourself the favor of visting both schools and the surrounding areas if you haven't already.


This is 100% accurate, but there are people who love where they are and just don't want to move. I don't think there's anything wrong with this as long as they are making an informed decision.

OG Loc
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby OG Loc » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:52 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
OG Loc wrote:You'll have a better chance at getting a good job in Seattle from Wash, but a better chance of getting a good job, period, from UCLA. So I guess it depends on how important living in Seattle is...the "go to the best school in the area you want to live" is played out IMO and really only applies if you must MUST live in that area. So at least do yourself the favor of visting both schools and the surrounding areas if you haven't already.


This is 100% accurate, but there are people who love where they are and just don't want to move. I don't think there's anything wrong with this as long as they are making an informed decision.


Yeah, I just don't see why it's always the first question asked on these forums. I might not understand because I've only lived in awful places, but the place I want to practice is the place where I can get a job...

sundaynightdelite
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby sundaynightdelite » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:23 am

Ok, really? Everyone knows Seattle U is the obvious choice! Have you seen their legal writing program?

jacko
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Re: UCLA vs. UW

Postby jacko » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:00 am

I agree with most of the responses in this thread, but in response to an earlier post, I don't think you can't tell me that it is a good idea to pass up a school like UVA or Michigan to attend UW even if you are SURE you want to be in Seattle. T10 >>>T30 even for a small legal market like Seattle.




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