Latest news on UC law school rates

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superflush
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:06 pm

keg411 wrote:
rondemarino wrote:
superflush wrote:So far I like what I'm reading: "Every state system of public education save California manages to sustain (at best) one flagship campus. Many, including such states as New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts, do not manage even that."


Probably a quirk of history. Those states have a lot of elite private schools, all probably founded before CA was a state. I'm sure if CA was home to Ivy+MIT+NYU+top LACs, there wouldn't have been as compelling a reason to create the massive UC system. Look at other western states - almost no elite private institutions, but strong state systems.


New Jersey has Rutgers and New York has both both State University and City University systems. And they're all cheaper than the UC's. WTF?


I took that as a slight on the state schools here in the Northeast. Like they are saying that NY & NJ don't even try to have one good, flagship state school, whereas in CA, they try to have 4 Top 40 flagship state schools.

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superflush
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:14 pm

rondemarino wrote:Also, I'd hold off in judging UCs until other schools come out with their tuition rates.


Well, the UCs are already more expensive, right. So if other publics raise their tuition by the same rate, they should still be cheaper.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:15 pm

superflush wrote:I took that as a slight on the state schools here in the Northeast. Like they are saying that NY & NJ don't even try to have one good, flagship state school, whereas in CA, they try to have 4 Top 40 flagship state schools.


+1 (link (LinkRemoved))

Count that. Not one, not two, but FIVE UC campuses among the top 20 research universities in the U.S. in terms of science and engineering research funding.

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General Tso
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby General Tso » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:16 pm

irishman86 wrote:I just can't believe tuition has gone up at such an INSANE rate in the past 2 years. I remember UCLA's old in-state rate was around 31k, just 2 years ago.


Hastings tuition was 11k in 2002-2003...6 years ago. The other UCs were about the same. I asked the Dean at Hastings where the tuition would be 6 years from now. I don't see how it could possibly ever go above 55k or so in-state. At least not in the next 6 years.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:19 pm

superflush wrote:
rondemarino wrote:Also, I'd hold off in judging UCs until other schools come out with their tuition rates.


Well, the UCs are already more expensive, right. So if other publics raise their tuition by the same rate, they should still be cheaper.


That's not clear. UCs let you become a state resident after a year. Also, I'm pretty sure Minnesota is in line for a 15+% percent hike this year. You might be right, but I'm going to wait a little longer to see what others do.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby irishman86 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:39 pm

swheat wrote:
irishman86 wrote:I just can't believe tuition has gone up at such an INSANE rate in the past 2 years. I remember UCLA's old in-state rate was around 31k, just 2 years ago.


Hastings tuition was 11k in 2002-2003...6 years ago. The other UCs were about the same. I asked the Dean at Hastings where the tuition would be 6 years from now. I don't see how it could possibly ever go above 55k or so in-state. At least not in the next 6 years.


Dunno, I could see it going to 55k+ instate for Boalt and UCLA within the next 5 years, since Boalt is going to ~50k in-state in the next 2 years.

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superflush
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:44 pm

rondemarino wrote:
superflush wrote:I took that as a slight on the state schools here in the Northeast. Like they are saying that NY & NJ don't even try to have one good, flagship state school, whereas in CA, they try to have 4 Top 40 flagship state schools.


+1 (link (LinkRemoved))

Count that. Not one, not two, but FIVE UC campuses among the top 20 research universities in the U.S. in terms of science and engineering research funding.


There are 6 UCs that are ranked higher than the highest rank state school in my state (Penn State). 6. Add that to the fact that Penn State isn't really even technically a state school (just state-related).

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:45 pm

superflush wrote:
rondemarino wrote:
superflush wrote:I took that as a slight on the state schools here in the Northeast. Like they are saying that NY & NJ don't even try to have one good, flagship state school, whereas in CA, they try to have 4 Top 40 flagship state schools.


+1 (link (LinkRemoved))

Count that. Not one, not two, but FIVE UC campuses among the top 20 research universities in the U.S. in terms of science and engineering research funding.


There are 6 UCs that are ranked higher than the highest rank state school in my state (Penn State). 6. Add that to the fact that Penn State isn't really even technically a state school (just state-related).


Wait. Whaaat?

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superflush
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:03 pm

rondemarino wrote:
superflush wrote:
rondemarino wrote:Also, I'd hold off in judging UCs until other schools come out with their tuition rates.


Well, the UCs are already more expensive, right. So if other publics raise their tuition by the same rate, they should still be cheaper.


That's not clear. UCs let you become a state resident after a year. Also, I'm pretty sure Minnesota is in line for a 15+% percent hike this year. You might be right, but I'm going to wait a little longer to see what others do.


Eh. This is clear enough

UC Davis 1L - $50,554
UC Davis 2L - $45,684 (IS, at proposed increase)
UC Davis 3L - $50,035 (IS, at proposed increase)
Total Davis COA - $146,273

Ohio State 1L - $40,890 (OOS, assumes a 9.5% increase from this year)
Ohio State 2L - $29,942 (IS, assumes a 22.8% increase this year, then a 9.5% increase for 2L)
Ohio State 3L - $32,793 (IS, assumes 9.5% increase for 3L)
Total OSU COA - $100,625

or hey, say I wanted to stay put:

Temple 1L - $20,234 (IS, assumes a 22.8% increase from 09-10 to 10-11}
Temple 2L - $22,157 (IS, assumes 9.5% increase for 2L)
Temple 3L - $24,262 (IS, assumes 9.5% increase for 3L)
Total Temple COA - $66,653

... and this is IF these schools increase their tuition by the same drastic percentage as UC has.

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superflush
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:04 pm

rondemarino wrote:
superflush wrote:There are 6 UCs that are ranked higher than the highest rank state school in my state (Penn State). 6. Add that to the fact that Penn State isn't really even technically a state school (just state-related).


Wait. Whaaat?


Yes, tis true.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 pm

I guess I have UCLA/Berkeley blinders on. Compared to UVA, Michigan and Minnesota, not as blow-your-brains-out crazy.

EDIT: Can you really get OSU in-state after a year?

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superflush
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:09 pm

rondemarino wrote:I guess I have UCLA/Berkeley blinders on. Compared to UVA, Michigan and Minnesota, not as blow-your-brains-out crazy.


Probably true. Comparing Berkeley to other T14s isn't as bad. And you could assume to be able to take that money on.
However, when you're talking Davis or Hastings, it is a completely different story. I don't know how they are going to get people to pay that.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:10 pm

rondemarino wrote:EDIT: Can you really get OSU in-state after a year?


Yes, it is standard.

"Entering students who relocate to Ohio for their legal education can be reclassified as Ohio residents (thereby paying tuition at the in-state rate) after residing in the state for 12 full months and meeting other criteria. Nearly all law students pay in-state tuition for years two and three of law school." - OSU

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby irishman86 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:26 pm

rondemarino wrote:I guess I have UCLA/Berkeley blinders on. Compared to UVA, Michigan and Minnesota, not as blow-your-brains-out crazy.

EDIT: Can you really get OSU in-state after a year?


The UC OOS tuitions are pretty bad. UVA's OOS is 44k. Michigan's OOS is 46k. Charlottesville and Ann Arbor are also dirt cheap to live in.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby UCInfo » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:30 pm

superflush wrote:Probably true. Comparing Berkeley to other T14s isn't as bad. And you could assume to be able to take that money on.
However, when you're talking Davis or Hastings, it is a completely different story. I don't know how they are going to get people to pay that.

From what I've heard, Davis prides itself on sending people into public service law. Unless they redirect all that new tuition money toward LRAP and public service scholarships, I'm not sure how they will continue to maintain that mission effectively.

On the other hand, the Regents see their law schools for what they are -- two are feeder schools for Big Law and national firms, the others are feeder schools for good regional jobs and Big Law for top performers. A lot of people want to work in California. The Regents are basically selling something that Ohio State or Temple don't have -- access to the California job market.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:34 pm

irishman86 wrote:
rondemarino wrote:I guess I have UCLA/Berkeley blinders on. Compared to UVA, Michigan and Minnesota, not as blow-your-brains-out crazy.

EDIT: Can you really get OSU in-state after a year?


The UC OOS tuitions are pretty bad. UVA's OOS is 44k. Michigan's OOS is 46k. Charlottesville and Ann Arbor are also dirt cheap to live in.


(a) My point was that the comparison wasn't as bad as the Davis-OSU one.

(b) Those were for last year, when UCs were at, what, $45k? Wait for this year. A lot of schools' endowments got wrecked.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby irishman86 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:37 pm

rondemarino wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
rondemarino wrote:I guess I have UCLA/Berkeley blinders on. Compared to UVA, Michigan and Minnesota, not as blow-your-brains-out crazy.

EDIT: Can you really get OSU in-state after a year?


The UC OOS tuitions are pretty bad. UVA's OOS is 44k. Michigan's OOS is 46k. Charlottesville and Ann Arbor are also dirt cheap to live in.


(a) My point was that the comparison wasn't as bad as the Davis-OSU one.

(b) Those were for last year, when UCs were at, what, $45k? Wait for this year. A lot of schools' endowments got wrecked.


It's already at 49k for Boalt this year. The rates are for this year. Also UVA in-state is only ~39k...which is really, really cheap. I haven't heard about their endowments getting knocked that badly. I just know that before the stock market crash, one of them, (maybe Mich?) had one of the highest endowments in the T14.

UVA's tuition model is pretty ideal.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:41 pm

Comparing in-state and out-of-state rates doesn't make much sense. Of course it's cheaper for a VA resident to go to UVA than Berkeley. Duh.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby irishman86 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:42 pm

worldtraveler wrote:Comparing in-state and out-of-state rates doesn't make much sense. Of course it's cheaper for a VA resident to go to UVA than Berkeley. Duh.


I wasn't, but since you pointed it out, it really is cheaper for a CA resident to go to UVA OOS than Berkeley...
Last edited by irishman86 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:46 pm

irishman86 wrote:
rondemarino wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
rondemarino wrote:I guess I have UCLA/Berkeley blinders on. Compared to UVA, Michigan and Minnesota, not as blow-your-brains-out crazy.

EDIT: Can you really get OSU in-state after a year?


The UC OOS tuitions are pretty bad. UVA's OOS is 44k. Michigan's OOS is 46k. Charlottesville and Ann Arbor are also dirt cheap to live in.


(a) My point was that the comparison wasn't as bad as the Davis-OSU one.

(b) Those were for last year, when UCs were at, what, $45k? Wait for this year. A lot of schools' endowments got wrecked.


It's already at 49k for Boalt this year. The rates are for this year. Also UVA in-state is only 39k...which is really, really cheap. I haven't heard about their endowments getting knocked that badly. I just know that before the stock market crash, one of them, (maybe Mich?) had one of the highest endowments in the T14.


Do you have anything resembling a point? Or are you just looking to vent? My discussion with superflush was quite narrow in scope.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby rondemarino » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:48 pm

irishman86 wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:Comparing in-state and out-of-state rates doesn't make much sense. Of course it's cheaper for a VA resident to go to UVA than Berkeley. Duh.


I wasn't, but at this point it's cheaper for a CA resident to go to UVA OOS than Berkeley...


Yes. Especially since we know what tuition at UVA is for 2010. Wait....

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:48 pm

irishman86 wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:Comparing in-state and out-of-state rates doesn't make much sense. Of course it's cheaper for a VA resident to go to UVA than Berkeley. Duh.


I wasn't, but since you pointed it out, it really is cheaper for a CA resident to go to UVA OOS than Berkeley...


You quoted in-state VA rates and out of state CA rates. Hence my comment.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby irishman86 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:53 pm

rondemarino wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:Comparing in-state and out-of-state rates doesn't make much sense. Of course it's cheaper for a VA resident to go to UVA than Berkeley. Duh.


I wasn't, but at this point it's cheaper for a CA resident to go to UVA OOS than Berkeley...


Yes. Especially since we know what tuition at UVA is for 2010. Wait....


It hasn't gone up that much in recent years. I'd be very surprised if it surpasses UC rates (either percentage-wise or raw numbers-wise).

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superflush
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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby superflush » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:59 pm

irishman86 wrote:It hasn't gone up that much in recent years. I'd be very surprised if it surpasses UC rates (either percentage-wise or raw numbers-wise).


I'd be surprised if any state schools rise their tuition by the same percentage of the UCs. It could happen, and their likely will be big tuition hikes for other state schools, but I don't think they'll be as high as UC.

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Re: Latest news on UC law school rates

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:47 am

rondemarino wrote:
superflush wrote:So far I like what I'm reading: "Every state system of public education save California manages to sustain (at best) one flagship campus. Many, including such states as New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts, do not manage even that."


Probably a quirk of history. Those states have a lot of elite private schools, all probably founded before CA was a state. I'm sure if CA was home to Ivy+MIT+NYU+top LACs, there wouldn't have been as compelling a reason to create the massive UC system. Look at other western states - almost no elite private institutions, but strong state systems.


Stanford, USC, and.....

Everyone forgets Cal Tech. California has two private schools in the top 5 undergrads. Hard to beat.




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