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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:36 pm 
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VoidSix wrote:
Okay, so a ridiculous third post, but I want to +1 the person who said that UC already has a very capable student body. I just got a PM from a current UC student saying that the school announced they'd placed 72% of their 2Ls last year (class of 2010) into V50 firms. I think Chicago is very reasonably unconcerned with ranking as long as they maintain those numbers.


That's incredible. Whenever I read or hear about Chicago's placement stats I am always surprised at how many posters on here consider them "below" CLS and NYU. Honestly at worst they are on the same level as NYU--based on the employment stats and clerkship info they really are only matched by CLS and surpassed by HYS.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:44 pm 
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kurama20 wrote:
VoidSix wrote:
Okay, so a ridiculous third post, but I want to +1 the person who said that UC already has a very capable student body. I just got a PM from a current UC student saying that the school announced they'd placed 72% of their 2Ls last year (class of 2010) into V50 firms. I think Chicago is very reasonably unconcerned with ranking as long as they maintain those numbers.


That's incredible. Whenever I read or hear about Chicago's placement stats I am always surprised at how many posters on here consider them "below" CLS and NYU. Honestly at worst they are on the same level as NYU--based on the employment stats and clerkship info they really are only matched by CLS and surpassed by HYS.



+1000


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:52 pm 
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of Benito Cereno wrote:
finally, moving to a 3.85 median and a 173 lsat median would have a strong effect on rankings, esp as it would increase yield and selectivity.


Wrong. Even if Chicago had the same medians as Yale--which is obviously highly unlikely--they would remain behind Columbia in the rankings, with a statistically insignificant advantage over NYU (they would probably be tied at fifth for USNWR) based on the USNWR methodology.

On the other hand, if they increased their expenditures to be more in line with Stanford, they would be tied with Columbia. If they increased their expenditures to equal that of Yale, they would move into the 4th spot, ahead of Columbia, but still very slightly behind Stanford and Harvard.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Ok. I'll take your word re:expenditures. so will chicago be reporting their expenditures accurately this year? if so will that make a difference?

other posters have said that increasing their expenditures to sls or yls levels wouldn't even get them past nyu.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Slightly off-topic but not completely but since it appears a few of you guys know a lot about the ranking system - you have any links that explain it in depth? Does that even exist?


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:39 pm 
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kurama21 wrote:
kurama20 wrote:
VoidSix wrote:
Okay, so a ridiculous third post, but I want to +1 the person who said that UC already has a very capable student body. I just got a PM from a current UC student saying that the school announced they'd placed 72% of their 2Ls last year (class of 2010) into V50 firms. I think Chicago is very reasonably unconcerned with ranking as long as they maintain those numbers.


That's incredible. Whenever I read or hear about Chicago's placement stats I am always surprised at how many posters on here consider them "below" CLS and NYU. Honestly at worst they are on the same level as NYU--based on the employment stats and clerkship info they really are only matched by CLS and surpassed by HYS.



+1000


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:42 pm 
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Fancy Pants wrote:
Slightly off-topic but not completely but since it appears a few of you guys know a lot about the ranking system - you have any links that explain it in depth? Does that even exist?

http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... ology.html


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:43 pm 
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Foozle wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
Slightly off-topic but not completely but since it appears a few of you guys know a lot about the ranking system - you have any links that explain it in depth? Does that even exist?

http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... ology.html


Thanks. Probably one of those instances where I'm going to end up really embarrassed about not being able to find it myself. :D


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Fancy Pants wrote:
Foozle wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
Slightly off-topic but not completely but since it appears a few of you guys know a lot about the ranking system - you have any links that explain it in depth? Does that even exist?

http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... ology.html


Thanks. Probably one of those instances where I'm going to end up really embarrassed about not being able to find it myself. :D

I almost hit you with a "Let me Google that for you."

It's literally right there on the rankings page, "Methodologies"


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Foozle wrote:
I almost hit you with a "Let me Google that for you."

It's literally right there on the rankings page, "Methodologies"


Haha. And boy would I have deserved it. I swear I've looked for it before but I'm either a) remembering wrong b) blind or c) and idiot.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:11 pm 
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I took a look at that too and it seems like expenditures are so low that chicago would need to be drastically underreporting to have it make any difference.
for me it seems that their admissions rate is a huge problem for them (and nyu too, especially nyu)


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:33 pm 
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of Benito Cereno wrote:
oh and, uh, trust me. uchicago kids and professors are OBSESSED with being under-appreciated. they never stop talking about it.

This is primarily why I chose not to go to UofC. When I started my application cycle it was my first choice, but after visiting and talking with people I changed my mind.
It is the most status-obsessed place on the globe. It seems like all that matters is who you're better than, so it doesn't surprise me to hear this.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:42 pm 
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Renzo wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
oh and, uh, trust me. uchicago kids and professors are OBSESSED with being under-appreciated. they never stop talking about it.

This is primarily why I chose not to go to UofC. When I started my application cycle it was my first choice, but after visiting and talking with people I changed my mind.
It is the most status-obsessed place on the globe. It seems like all that matters is who you're better than, so it doesn't surprise me to hear this.



I get a similiar vibe from NYU. It seems like a lot of their students are obsessed with proving how they are just as good as Columbia and better than Chicago. Many of them seem to have a chip on their shoulder when trying to prove that they are as good as Columbia and they get downright vicious when someone hints that they might not be on Columbia's level. It's one of the most US News rankings obsessed places around.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:43 pm 
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http://money-law.blogspot.com/2009/07/z ... n-law.html


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:45 pm 
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kurama20 wrote:
Renzo wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
oh and, uh, trust me. uchicago kids and professors are OBSESSED with being under-appreciated. they never stop talking about it.

This is primarily why I chose not to go to UofC. When I started my application cycle it was my first choice, but after visiting and talking with people I changed my mind.
It is the most status-obsessed place on the globe. It seems like all that matters is who you're better than, so it doesn't surprise me to hear this.



I get a similiar vibe from NYU. It seems like a lot of their students are obsessed with proving how they are just as good as Columbia and better than Chicago. Many of them seem to have a chip on their shoulder when trying to prove that they are as good as Columbia and they get downright vicious when someone hints that they might not be on Columbia's level. It's one of the most US News rankings obsessed places around.


I think that's only true on this board. IRL we drink with the CLS kids frequently. They're uptight, but their parties are always in the BEST venues.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:45 pm 
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VoidSix wrote:
http://money-law.blogspot.com/2009/07/z-scores-in-model-of-2010-usn-law.html


OH awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Fancy Pants wrote:
VoidSix wrote:
http://money-law.blogspot.com/2009/07/z-scores-in-model-of-2010-usn-law.html


OH awesome.


If by awesome you mean blindingly hard to read, then yes.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Renzo wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
VoidSix wrote:
http://money-law.blogspot.com/2009/07/z-scores-in-model-of-2010-usn-law.html


OH awesome.


If by awesome you mean blindingly hard to read, then yes.


Yeah that too.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:02 pm 
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kurama20 wrote:
Renzo wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
oh and, uh, trust me. uchicago kids and professors are OBSESSED with being under-appreciated. they never stop talking about it.

This is primarily why I chose not to go to UofC. When I started my application cycle it was my first choice, but after visiting and talking with people I changed my mind.
It is the most status-obsessed place on the globe. It seems like all that matters is who you're better than, so it doesn't surprise me to hear this.



I get a similiar vibe from NYU. It seems like a lot of their students are obsessed with proving how they are just as good as Columbia and better than Chicago. Many of them seem to have a chip on their shoulder when trying to prove that they are as good as Columbia and they get downright vicious when someone hints that they might not be on Columbia's level. It's one of the most US News rankings obsessed places around.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Agree with all the people who pointed out the flaws in your plan. I would add that such a move would majorly piss off 2Ls, 3Ls, recent alumni, and future prospective students. Why should the class of 2013 win the lottery like this when EVERYONE else had to pay? I would also draw the conclusion that Chicago had money lying around that they could have given to ME in the form of a partial scholarship but chose not to. I would be angry.

Furthermore, who would want to instigate this race to the bottom? NYU and Columbia are capable of doing the same thing, but I don't think anyone in the CCN pack would want to be dealing with the other two awarding outrageous amounts of scholarship money each year. To some extent schools collude precisely so that none of them have to do this.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:50 pm 
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because the class of 2013 would be have way better numbers than previous classes because it would be poaching from hls and the top students at cls.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:52 pm 
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but yea, they would never ever do it for the later reason. though, donors can stipulate how their money is spent. so someone with 8 million to donate should just say, "hey offer 150k + housing and bears season tickets and a golf club membership to 100 students admitted to hys for one year." if i had a billion dollars i'd do it. fun little experiment.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:09 pm 
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I think that Beast is saying that you're sort of contradicting your argument. You claim that the rankings are self-perpetuating, but go on to talk about how Chicago could then change their ranking. Beast is saying that any school, including Columbia or NYU, could do that. Even if Chicago got into the #4 spot (logically impossible, as that z-score link will show), Columbia or NYU could devote their money the next year to getting the students that would rather go to Chicago because of its higher rank.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:29 pm 
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of Benito Cereno wrote:
because the class of 2013 would be have way better numbers than previous classes because it would be poaching from hls and the top students at cls.


Possibly, but they are still students that go to MY school and they wouldn't have had that same opportunity had it not been a freakish year. Also, the fact that they had 3 points more on the LSAT than me would do little to ease my rage when I looked at my loan payments each month. It would be a very bad move vis a vis alumni relations.


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 Post subject: Re: How Chicago should game USNWR
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:03 pm 
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BeastCoastHype wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
because the class of 2013 would be have way better numbers than previous classes because it would be poaching from hls and the top students at cls.


Possibly, but they are still students that go to MY school and they wouldn't have had that same opportunity had it not been a freakish year. Also, the fact that they had 3 points more on the LSAT than me would do little to ease my rage when I looked at my loan payments each month. It would be a very bad move vis a vis alumni relations.


Okay, I get your point but this isn't really helping. The idea is to determine the best way for Chicago to game the rankings and then send the school a rough draft of our plans.

VoidSix wrote:
I think that Beast is saying that you're sort of contradicting your argument. You claim that the rankings are self-perpetuating, but go on to talk about how Chicago could then change their ranking. Beast is saying that any school, including Columbia or NYU, could do that. Even if Chicago got into the #4 spot (logically impossible, as that z-score link will show), Columbia or NYU could devote their money the next year to getting the students that would rather go to Chicago because of its higher rank.


None of that. Positive thinking only.


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