I didn't realize that a much higher CoL (Northwestern's area compared to Hyde Park) = better location.

We don't all care about being close (or closer, anyway) to the bars for the one or two nights a week you actually have to go out. I'll take Hyde Park over the Northwestern neighborhood any idea of the week.

And don't give me the "oh, but Hyde Park is so dangerous!" line, because it really isn't any more dangerous than any other urban area. If you go too far south or west, yeah, it gets a little dicey. The area surrounding the UoC campus, however, is just fine.

Well, yeah actually. The fact that housing costs so much more means that the market - the aggregated preferences of the many thousands of people in the Chicago area - registers an overall preference for the Loop and near North. So in that sense cost of living does indicate better location. Econ 101 ftw.

But, avoiding the bandwagon fallacy, obviously the preferences of the majority are not determinative of an individual's preferences. While clerkship and employment data can be calculated and interpreted in different ways, they are less prone to subjective opinion. The value of location is certainly subject to one's tastes, which is why I said Northwestern 'may' be superior in that regard. I did not say that it definitely was superior for this reason.

I do think that crime and safety are less subjective, but even here different people will have different methods of weighing risk. I'm sure the campus is reasonably safe, but UChi does maintain a rather large police force and it is valid to at least be concerned. Whether that risk is enough to outweigh Chicago's benefits is up to each person.

Therefore I maintain the very reasonable proposition that Chicago is not uniformly or universally superior to Northwestern.

Without getting too far into the debate, I'd make a point about the cultural differences. U of C is a *lot* more academic/intense/egg-heady than NU. From my perspective that's a substantial point in NU's camp. If it weren't for ITE, I can even see that being a decisive point for some people.

I'm with you there. Definitely a big consideration.

Credited.

Nay, there is another problem with the housing costs issue: the "preference" you refer to is heavily influenced by the fact that the loop/near north side is closer to most sources of employment and education in Chicago. Higher demand, in that regard, doesn't necessarily mean the area is "better" to live in--or, at least, it isn't better "enough" to justify the much, *much* higher cost of living.

Edit: That statement is in the context of people who are weighing the pros and cons of Northwestern and Chicago. Obviously, on an overall level including the preferences of all people, the loop and near north side are more attractive to the majority of people. However, the preference of someone wanting to be close to their downtown job/one of the 10000 schools downtown/etc. is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Ray--I agree with you completely. The academic focus at UoC can be terribly aggravating. I find myself constantly amazed by how little the professors/school in general seems to care about the actual practice of law. They don't give credit for journals, externships, nominal credit for clinics, etc.--I find myself amazed that they refer to the law school as a "professional school." It isn't--which is somewhat true of any law school, but it is particularly true here. That said, Chicago has a fairly clear advantage in job/clerkship placement in all economies though, good or bad. If someone was offered a significant scholarship at Northwestern, had little/no desire for clerkships/academia, and wanted to be surrounded by a more practical setting, I would recommend NW over Chicago to that person. There are a lot of "ifs" there, though.

Chicago does retain a large police force. As a result, the concerns about safety in the area around campus are completely overblown--frankly, they are negligible. Unless someone shows me crime statistics that demonstrate otherwise, I would argue that the area around UoC is equivalent to the area that Northwestern folks live in, as far as safety risks go. We're in Chicago--you aren't going to be 100% safe from crime regardless of where you are.

In the end, though, I agree that it is silly to argue that Chicago is universally superior to Northwestern.

Right after undergrad, I would've considered that a big point for UChi. After working a number of years and having varying levels of success and failure, I've flipped. I realize that academia is not what I want to do professionally (I'd rather leave that sort of stuff as a hobby) and that I'd prefer an environment that's much more pragmatic about law and employment.

I'd say that the city of Chicago mindset (the pragmatism, not the corruption) is apparent in both schools. L&E types from Posner to Sunstein use a very ends-focused style of reasoning.

And exactly why I want to go to Chicago.

Just posted this in another thread, but UC has placed 72% of the class of 2010 into V50 firms. Just another fact to add.