I've put quite a bit of effort around here into forming a preference between NYU and Columbia. The conclusion I have come to is that I could be perfectly justified in preferring either of the two; it depends on what I'm looking for and my impressions when I visit.

Does the same general principle apply to Chicago and Northwestern? Or is the disparity in overall "quality" more significant than with Columbia and NYU? I've heard Northwestern is in a more desirable location, but I still have the feeling there is no way I can choose NU over UC if the money is equal (I'm assuming no scholarships; borderline numbers at one and borderline work experience at the other), due to UC's edge in academics/prestige/opportunities/etc. Is this accurate? Or am I underrating Northwestern?

This is accurate. The disparity in quality between Chicago and Northwestern is > than the NYU-CLS difference. Chicago is clearly more prestigious and places more of its students in biglaw and in good clerkships.

In 2005, Chicago placed 55% of its students in NLJ250 firms, compared to 46% at Northwestern (and 55 for NYU, and 54 for CLS). Even if you don't care about biglaw, this is indicative of better job prospects at Chicago than NW.

Thanks for the response. Yeah, I know the numbers definitely back up the idea that Chicago is significantly better than Northwestern overall. I'd be curious if anyone has faced a similar decision and chosen Northwestern. I guess the only reason would be if you REALLY can't stand Hyde Park.

UofC is more prestigious to be sure, but I cannot imagine that Northwestern grads are especially hurting for jobs. Unless its clerkship/academia or bust, I think you would still do well at NU.

Each school seems to have a very different emphasis and you will have experiences at each. UC is much more ivory tower academic and very traditional and NU more grounded in business with a strong MBA/JD program.

Just out of curiosity, who do you see moving down then? I think Penn is a little overrated (but still probably better than NW), and maybe Boalt will move back out of the T10 like it had been up until a few years ago, but I just can't see NW getting any higher than the 10/11 spot it shares with Duke...

I think a significant money difference would have to be about the only logical reason to choose NW over Chicago. NW is a good school, don't get me wrong, but the difference isn't as close as say a Michigan over Chicago with near equal money, and the Chicago name and prestige will give you the edge over NW in any market you'd chose to go to.

Columbia and NYU are very different schools with different atmospheres (making them very hard to compare), which is why many think NYU is just as good as (or maybe even better than) Columbia, but Chicago is pretty much universally regarded to be a tier or two above NW...

I wasn't saying you're right or wrong, just curious on your reasoning. Their collaboration with Kellogg is definitely a cool plus, though I'm not sure how different it is than Penn with Wharton or Michigan with Ross, etc. It's just tough for any T14's to move an appreciable amount because of how entrenched they've become and the fact that to move up there would have to be schools that would move down. But yea, if they were to move, it would probably stem significantly from there business/corporate focus...

Prestige - UChicago
Lay Prestige - depends
Clerkships/academia - UChicago
Jobs - UChicago, but Northwestern not appreciably worse for Chicago market

And Columbia beats NYU on all four of these criteria.

Northwestern has arguably the best location of any T14 (unless you are an Ann Arbor type of person) and Chicago has arguably the worst.

UChicago also has a reputation (fair or not) for having very geeky kids, especially the undergrads. Anecdotal, but a guy I knew from high school went to Chicago - very smart, very abrasive, fast-talker, didn't like to look you in the eyes. Also know some people who went to UChicago graduate-level schools in the 1970s and even then people found the UChicago students to be weird. Whether that's worth influencing your choice and possible risks to your career is for you to determine.

um, it seems like you are all ignoring the fact that chicago has the best economics department in the world and a business school that is often ranked 1st, and always top 5.

More of a history? Doesn't Northwestern have a room that Lincoln argued a case in? Or am I mixing up schools . . .

Both fine points, but to be clear Kellogg is a very prestigious B school in its own right and outranked Booth in the last USNWR ranking. Northwestern has actively sought to define itself as a business-friendly law school. They streamlined the JD-MBA application process so students only apply to Kellogg, and I believe they can skip the LSAT and just take the GMAT (but I may be mistaken). It's also a three-year program; Chicago offers it in four years.

Edit - also, for my money, George Mason has the best econ dept. in the land. Austrian > Chicago.

Austrian> Chicago>>>>>>Keynesian

If any of the current T10 drop out, it'll be Michigan. They have a fat endowment and a strong peer-rep, but the latter keeps decreasing every year. They can't count on an Ivy rep like Penn nor are they in a highly desirable state like Virginia or Berkeley.

Not that I think it'll happen any time soon. I think NU is probably the best-positioned to make a concerted effort to overtake Michigan, but their business-friendly angle won't really cut it. The problem is that USNWR very heavily weighs that academic (peer) reputation score. That business angle tends to be taken as a trade school angle by NU's academic peers.

PS - Interestingly, Michigan's engineering school is in decline too. Back when I was applying to college, their engineering programs were ranked several notches higher than they are now.

This is so true that it should be a tattoo. Though in fairness Hayek taught for a long time at Chicago, and the Coase theorem (in my lay understanding) is awfully Austrian. So Austrian that Friedman at first assumed it must be wrong until Coase explained.

I like the business angle, the constant self-examination and improvement ethos at NU. I do think some academic types find that offensively bourgeois, for lack of a better term. Some people previously sniffed similar sentiments at that commuter school NYU... and now it's 5th (perhaps in large part for location). The good part of the USNWR criteria is that aside from the hefty chunk that's just reputational feedback loop, it's objectively measured.

Agreed that Michigan is probably the easiest fruit, given that it was #3 in 1987, from 1990 to 2000 it was 6 to 8, and now it's more 9 to 10. But ultimately I imagine Northwestern will need stronger placement and reputation outside Chicago and the Midwest to see solid rankings improvement. I think Northwestern has done a lot to try and claim a niche; where Y is academia, H is H, CLS is Wall Street, NYU is public interest (and #1 in tax), and Chicago is Law & Econ, Northwestern is trying to make a niche with business/corporate. The school Plans and the seasoned graduates fit nicely into it. That focus might help build a reputation.

I tend to view LSAT as a very rough proxy for student quality, especially 75th percentile, and from that perspective NU is roughly 7th behind HYSCCN, followed by VP and then M. That's a good sign for NU, even if has no larger impact.

If I don't get into NYU or Columbia, I think it may come down to Chicago for me. Based on everything I've heard, I would MUCH MUCH rather be at Northwestern's location, but I don't think I'd be able to give up the placement advantage in clerkships and biglaw that Chicago offers.

It's 3 years versus the rest of your life, so that's an eminently reasonable course of action.

great thread guys, i gained alot of good info from browsing through it. i was browsing through northwesterns career placement site, and about a quarter of their students were able to land jobs back in the northeast (half stayed in the midwest area). im not sure what the stats show for other midwest schools, but this sounded like a decent bet for me as someone who intends to return to the northeast long-term.

Personally, it depends on what you want in your life. I would rather be in Hyde Park, though I know that is an outlier opinion. I'd also rather live around USC than in Westwood.

i think for business schools, northwestern is generally as highly ranked (or higher) than chicago (booth). for law school, i don't think the 2 schools are close at all.

interestingly, the converse is true for NY business schools. columbia is generally thought to be a notch or two ahead of NYU business school (although the 2 law schools are pretty close rankings wise)

It's because Kellogg is more of a marketing consulting school whereas Booth is heavily quantitative and has the second best finance program in the country.

this is not correct.

It should be noted that Northwestern actually has fairly low peer rankings. Chicago destroys it, and it is lower than any of the T14 (the closest is Georgetown) and Northwestern is tied with UCLA (although the bar rep for NU is significantly higher). NU is only up in the rankings because of their expenditures which are higher than anyone's outside the Top-5.

In other words, Chicago is a much better school than Northwestern in my opinion. I wouldn't consider it with a 172 / 3.6--definitely would go to MVP or Cornell or Duke instead.

This is incorrect.

That's actually absolutely correct.