Totally agree.

Dude, Condi Rice is a PhD not a JD, not to mention she she earned her BA and PHD from Denver and her MA from Notre Dame... Plus, I wouldn't say GW has a national reputation, particulary west of Virginia. I doubt that the average person knows much about GW or American. However, most people know of GTown.

because that is what's important

GULC's lay prestige is crazy strong, at least as far west as Texas. When I first got accepted to UVA, I kept telling people and getting asked in response, "Why don't you try to get into Georgetown if you want to move out there?" This happened with family, friends, coworkers, people from totally different backgrounds. I finally gave up and just started telling people that I got WL'd at GULC (which was a true and useful diversion from the prestige issue and got them to leave me alone).

Haha out of context it does sound mighty strange. But I've been involved with a US Congressman's office for a few years, hence the interest in working for the federal government. Lately I've been entertaining the possibility of spending 1L at UK. If I totally rock it, I may be able to transfer up to GULC. If I don't, then I probably don't belong there anyway! I figure things will unfold the way they should.

Does anyone have insight into the transfer process?

Check the GULC website. From the transferapps yahoo group, coming from a school like UKentucky, you're basically not going to get in unless you make the top 10%. If you do very well first semester, you can apply EA and hear back in late Spring before your final 2nd semester grades come out. From GW, top 20% might do the trick but I doubt anything below that will have a great chance at getting in. Especially since more and more people are applying to transfer schools every year.

Disclaimer: I am a GW fan who is biased.

I disagree that George Washington has national rep. I think it has great national rep and it definitely has some of the best national placement outside of the T14. Brian Leiter's job placement by big firm rankings have it #17 overall. (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2003 ... onal.shtml) I know that it's gov't reach is also pretty good in California positions.

GW is my top choice right now as a PhD chemist who wants to do patent law. I have a 169/3.9 and have a good chance of getting $$$$ at GW.

My labmate who is from China and has only been here for 2 years has heard of GW. He hasn't heard of any of the other schools beside Stanford and Harvard. I thought that was pretty interesting.

Did you pose the question "have you ever heard of George Washington?"

because that could skew your results.

I don't think your labmate should have any influence on where you want to go to law school, nor lay prestige in general. Many people I know would never think Michigan is a good school.
And you may get $100,000 over 3 years in scholly money from GW, but GULC will be a better degree over the long run.

And Michigan or other T10 you make break into would be even better than GULC.

There we go. Chinese labmate street cred.

I have talked with many JD/PhDs who are working in patent law and have been told that GW will be great, so most of you really don't know what you are talking about. After you go get a PhD in a hard science from a top research school, and then go to law school, and then get a job in IP... you can give me some advice.

For IP rankings don't matter that much. Fuck, IP people will be the only ones getting jobs.

Some of y'all have no clue. GWU is the bizzomb. Everybody knows this school. And the one poster talking about it having no rep past Virginia? Are you crazy? I'm pretty sure there are many law students far, far beyond VA going into IP, and might I inform you that GW has only a few other law schools in the country that are ranked higher than its IP program.

And just because, allegedly, the average commoner isn't familiar with the name GEORGE WASHINGTON, doesn't mean anything! Most people don't even know what Cornell is. Does that reduce the value of the degree? No! Because the average commoner isn't a partner at a law firm -- d'oh!

GW and GU are virtually identical. It's like comparing Harvard to Yale.

lol. at least you are persistent.

...

Uh, not exactly. Are the numbers of national firms participating in OCI virtually identical, which is especially importat ITE? Will a GW degree be just as competitive as a USC/UCLA degree in LA, no? Will a Gtown degree have the type of national reach that could place that graduate in an LA firm when competing with USC/UCLA, much better shot when going up against those two then GW? If you have evidence that suggests GW is identical in regards to job placement, both salary and national mobility, that indicates they are pound for pound the same in this regard let me know. GW is a fine school, it's just not a T14 school.

The Gtown degree will have the edge, that's just how this game works, regardless of your trolling.

...

I didn't know having discussion was trolling, as no one seems to be disrespectful or flaming, so...

Of course GU is considered to be the more prestigious of the two, because it does have the coveted stamp of being "T14," but hardly by far, or even a margin strong enough to consider GW immobile around the country because all its stats don't seem to be equal to those that GU claim. Competing on the west coast against other prestigious schools in the west, obviously a GU grad would have an advantage and that hasn't been doubted, so neutralize some of that sass. But let's not underestimate the portability, which is also international, that a GW degree does have.

If you don't go to GU and choose GW, you'll still have a great shot at a great job with a large/medium firm. GW has a mighty fine OCI of ~600 with large firms all around the nation, so employers' interest must be piqued somehow, and with a median salary at 136 compared to 160 at GU, I don't consider that a remarkable jab to a GW grad at all. They certainly have hardly any graduates who are unemployed, and in this economy, having a GW law degree in all the right places is certainly a great investment with extraordinary prospects. GU is always the better choice if it's another option to GW, but let's not make it seem as if GW is much further behind in anything more than a magazine's list of favorite schools. And in this regard GW and GU are virtually identical. Perhaps I exaggerate comparing the two to Harvard and Yale, so I'll retract that and say the difference is most similar to the difference between a beamer and a benz, instead.

Well that was my beef with your comment. I don't think it was out of line for me to call that into question, due to the fact that your comment/comparison simply isn't true. I agree that the rankings game is a bit ridiculous, but the fact is it does matter when comparing the prospects between a T14, T30, etc.

I guess you could claim that in the DC area the two are much "closer" then the rank gap would suggest. However, a lot of people want mobility, which GW is further behind Gtown.

Put it this way, there's enough of a difference that all things being equal, very few people would pick GW over Gtown, including you. Every little bit helps ITE. Anyway this post is about GW's versatility, which is basically limited to the South-Atlantic region. I don't think a GW grad would have a great deal of luck in NY/CA/IL whereas a Gtown graduate might have a shot. I wouldn't go to GW if I wanted CA or wherever, but I would go to Gtown.

"let's not underestimate the portability, which is also international, that a GW degree does have." Well, GW's own employment stats for the class of 2008 have 0% working in a foreign country. I'm sure people in various parts of the world have heard of GW, but this doesn't mean its ls is internationally renowned and a GW JD has a realistic possibility of securing foregin employment at graduation.

Do you go to GW?

BTW, GW hasn't released their 2009 employment stats, so I wouldn't get overly excited about some of the older data, not that any school's employment stats are all that reliable anyway. Oh and sass I thought you were trolling because your comments were so far off from the consensus, as to bait people on this thread to come after you.

I'm not meaning to be disrespectful, but I think you're wrong regarding Cornell. Because of its size, alumni base and math/science programs, it has a world-wide reputation. Plus, it's an Ivy League, and no matter how much people poo-poo whether that makes it a good school, it does make it far more well-known than most East Coast, non-Ivies, including GW. You're from DC, so it might color your perceptions just a bit, no?

And while law firms look to a school's academic reputation, they're also heavily influenced by its public reputation as well - as the clients who are paying the bills are much more impressed than they should be by the name of the school.

Granted, I might just be a Cornell troll...

Yup. Where I'm from, more people know what Villanova is and have never heard of Berkeley/UVA. Therefore, by that logic, Villanova >> Berkeley/UVA. I've lived in DC for a while, and can say pretty confidently that GW doesn't have the rep. you're attributing to it even down there. Its UG is not that impressive, their public policy school is only above average. Its only their law school thats good, and its overshadowed by Georgetown in a big way. Its not a bad school, but for god sakes, its not exactly "elite".

Didn't GW just drop a bunch in the rankings when their PT numbers were added in? How does that change the quality of education?

+1

I have friends across the country, and their constant reaction to my decision to attend UVA was along the lines of, "Why don't you go to Georgetown if you wanna be near DC?" The exceptions were the lawyers I know, including the west coast ones, who all went, "Wow, that's a great school."

There's different kinds of reputation, and reputation among lawyers is what matters when you graduate from law school, assuming you still want to work as a lawyer at that point. GW does not have the same level of prestige as UVA or GULC at all in that regard. But then, even if you look at lay prestige and how well-known schools are as a whole nationally, GW is still hugely overshadowed by GULC. Everyone in the country has heard of Georgetown and think it's some great school to go to. GW certainly doesn't have that kind of reputation either.

GW simply does not have the same level of lay prestige as GULC, and it certainly doesn't have the legal prestige or hiring opportunity that GULC or UVA have. GW may be a good school, but it is certainly not "identical" to those T14 schools in any way.



This is certainly not true. In the past GW had great job placement, while the economy was booming... but then, so did pretty much any T1 school. Also, those "median" salaries are for people who can actually manage to get BigLaw jobs, and this year that's a lot harder than it has been decades. "They certainly have hardly any graduates who are unemployed"? Really? Even T14s are having trouble employing graduates at the bottom half of their classes this year, what makes GW better at this?