Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

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jms1987
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby jms1987 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:07 pm

COL sounds like a PITA, here I can get a nice 2-3 bedroom for 565-900 dollars

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Dialogue
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby Dialogue » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:51 pm

jms1987 wrote:COL sounds like a PITA, here I can get a nice 2-3 bedroom for 565-900 dollars


Yeah, I lived in Nashville (green hills area) and split a 2 bedroom house for $300 per month.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:13 pm

I currently live in DC and recommend it. COL sucks, but there are ways to make life work! NY is much more expensive and DC has jobs beyond BigLaw that you can get involved with (government, lobbying, etc) that NY won't really have.

Great thread, I am loving the fighting. JennBNYC will kick your asses.

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JennBNYC
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby JennBNYC » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:20 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:I currently live in DC and recommend it. COL sucks, but there are ways to make life work! NY is much more expensive and DC has jobs beyond BigLaw that you can get involved with (government, lobbying, etc) that NY won't really have.

Great thread, I am loving the fighting. JennBNYC will kick your asses.


Woohoo! I have Rocketman on my side :-).

Don't mess.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:21 pm

JennBNYC wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:I currently live in DC and recommend it. COL sucks, but there are ways to make life work! NY is much more expensive and DC has jobs beyond BigLaw that you can get involved with (government, lobbying, etc) that NY won't really have.

Great thread, I am loving the fighting. JennBNYC will kick your asses.


Woohoo! I have Rocketman on my side :-).

Don't mess.


Ha, I'm surprised you are happy since you found out my profile is fake ;) The PM silent treatment spoke volumes.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:24 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:
JennBNYC wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:I currently live in DC and recommend it. COL sucks, but there are ways to make life work! NY is much more expensive and DC has jobs beyond BigLaw that you can get involved with (government, lobbying, etc) that NY won't really have.

Great thread, I am loving the fighting. JennBNYC will kick your asses.


Woohoo! I have Rocketman on my side :-).

Don't mess.


Ha, I'm surprised you are happy since you found out my profile is fake ;) The PM silent treatment spoke volumes.


Lulz at the fake profile. If you really got a full ride to Fordham, that would be badass. They apparently exist, but not for commoners like me.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:27 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Lulz at the fake profile. If you really got a full ride to Fordham, that would be badass. They apparently exist, but not for commoners like me.


My TLS life is pretty much one big OS flame. but i love it.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:29 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Lulz at the fake profile. If you really got a full ride to Fordham, that would be badass. They apparently exist, but not for commoners like me.


My TLS life is pretty much one big OS flame. but i love it.


:lol: Careful with the flaming, lol. I had to ban someone today. It was my first.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby Rocketman11 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:31 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:It was my first.


It's been several years since you've been able to say that!

*ba dum chhhh*

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silenziatori
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby silenziatori » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:09 am

Silenz, I took care of it. -OS

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:48 am

Rocketman11 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:It was my first.


It's been several years since you've been able to say that!

*ba dum chhhh*


LOL. I suppose I am getting old.

tycho_brahe
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby tycho_brahe » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:09 pm

Rocketman11 wrote:I currently live in DC and recommend it. COL sucks, but there are ways to make life work! NY is much more expensive and DC has jobs beyond BigLaw that you can get involved with (government, lobbying, etc) that NY won't really have.


NYC is not "much more expensive" unless you insist on living in Manhattan. It's about the same if you're living in Brooklyn. Granted you pay the same for a longer commute, but at least it's still the city. To save significant money in DC I'd imagine you'd have to live in the burbs. Also, there are certainly more ways to spend money in NYC than DC. But to say that, for a budget-conscious student, NYC is "much more expensive" is just not true, they're really about the same.

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ihatelaw
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby ihatelaw » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:39 pm

Going to law school in NYC is not a huge waste of money. Going to a law school that doesn't offer you good job prospects is a huge waste of money.


NYC can be brutally expensive if you don't know how to save or spend money like an adult. Otherwise, it can a great experience that doesn't require you going broke.

Heres a bit of a summary on life NY if you are curious:

For pretty much every law school in NY you can live within a 30 minute commute and not spend a ton of money on rent. The secret is don't live the prime areas of Manhattan. South Park Slope, Sunset Park, Long Island City, Astoria, Williamsburg/East Williamsburg/Bushwick, Greenpoint, and Harlem are among the many reasonably priced and safe neighborhoods in New York. I didn't include any from the Bronx since I'm not too familiar with it but there are safe/cheap places to live there as well. You can get rooms anywhere from 600 to 1000 dollars if you live in these places. Yea, its probably cheaper in Iowa or Texas but its not more expensive than San Fran, DC, Chicago, Boston, or any other major city for the most part. Also, food...if you know where to get it (as in don't go to Whole Foods), can be reasonably priced as well.

People who spend tons of money do it because they go out to bars/restaurants all the time. Don't do that if you need to save money...thats true no matter where you live. With that said, there are plenty of bars with dollar or two dollar PBRs and restaurants with meals for under 5 dollars. I've seen bars that offer 5 shots for 10 dollars on a nightly basis. Dirt cheap hot dogs, falafel, and pizza (sometimes). Thats part of the beauty of NY - lots of great hole in the walls that serve better food than most sit down restaurants in other parts of the country for less money than a meal would cost if you bought groceries.


Yea, snow melts (at least we have snow), subways get hot, there are stupid people (and smart ones), and sometimes, god forbid, you may get a train delay (I actually haven't experienced one in about 3 months, though one of my trains did shut down randomly a week ago). On the other hand, you have beautiful parks, the most culture in the world, dozens and dozens of museums, thousands of great restaurants and bars, god knows how many different cultural experiences, and some of the best educational institutions in the world.

If you have any NY questions feel free to ask. I highly recommend NYC because the experience of living here is not only unique but also fantastic.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:29 pm

ihatelaw wrote:Going to law school in NYC is not a huge waste of money. Going to a law school that doesn't offer you good job prospects is a huge waste of money.


NYC can be brutally expensive if you don't know how to save or spend money like an adult. Otherwise, it can a great experience that doesn't require you going broke.

Heres a bit of a summary on life NY if you are curious:

For pretty much every law school in NY you can live within a 30 minute commute and not spend a ton of money on rent. The secret is don't live the prime areas of Manhattan. South Park Slope, Sunset Park, Long Island City, Astoria, Williamsburg/East Williamsburg/Bushwick, Greenpoint, and Harlem are among the many reasonably priced and safe neighborhoods in New York. I didn't include any from the Bronx since I'm not too familiar with it but there are safe/cheap places to live there as well. You can get rooms anywhere from 600 to 1000 dollars if you live in these places. Yea, its probably cheaper in Iowa or Texas but its not more expensive than San Fran, DC, Chicago, Boston, or any other major city for the most part. Also, food...if you know where to get it (as in don't go to Whole Foods), can be reasonably priced as well.

People who spend tons of money do it because they go out to bars/restaurants all the time. Don't do that if you need to save money...thats true no matter where you live. With that said, there are plenty of bars with dollar or two dollar PBRs and restaurants with meals for under 5 dollars. I've seen bars that offer 5 shots for 10 dollars on a nightly basis. Dirt cheap hot dogs, falafel, and pizza (sometimes). Thats part of the beauty of NY - lots of great hole in the walls that serve better food than most sit down restaurants in other parts of the country for less money than a meal would cost if you bought groceries.


Yea, snow melts (at least we have snow), subways get hot, there are stupid people (and smart ones), and sometimes, god forbid, you may get a train delay (I actually haven't experienced one in about 3 months, though one of my trains did shut down randomly a week ago). On the other hand, you have beautiful parks, the most culture in the world, dozens and dozens of museums, thousands of great restaurants and bars, god knows how many different cultural experiences, and some of the best educational institutions in the world.

If you have any NY questions feel free to ask. I highly recommend NYC because the experience of living here is not only unique but also fantastic.


WIN. :mrgreen:

Excellent post overall.

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Snowdrifter
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby Snowdrifter » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:57 pm

Sorry to revive this, but I really enjoyed the thorough analysis from ihatelaw, the always-helpful OperaSoprano, and the great feedback from other folks here, as well.

I'm having trouble deciding between NYC and Boston, but definitely aiming to go to law school (and practice) in one of those two cities.

To get a better feel for the various schools in NYC and the differences between them, would any of our NYC veterans feel comfortable writing 1-3 sentences on each of the schools there? :D It seems like a lot of people have similar questions about the differences between Fordham, Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. John's, etc... (besides their USNews rankings)

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paratactical
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby paratactical » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:02 am

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TTH
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby TTH » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:03 pm

This may be a silly question, but how does one go about looking for apartments from out of town? I cannot imagine going to new york's craigslist would be helpful. Are there free (for renters) brokers?

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paratactical
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:45 am

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jms1987
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby jms1987 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:23 am

ITE, would a school like Cardozo be a bad choice?

spondee
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby spondee » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:31 am

paratactical wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:This may be a silly question, but how does one go about looking for apartments from out of town? I cannot imagine going to new york's craigslist would be helpful. Are there free (for renters) brokers?


There are no brokers that don't charge a fee and in NYC it's pretty rare to have the landlord or management company pay the fee instead of the renter.

You'd have to talk to a broker and make arrangements to come to NYC and spend a weekend looking at apartments. You'll also probably have to pick one on the spot. Nice places don't frequently sit on the market very long, though they may stay for longer in the current economy if they are a little pricier.


It's about as a close to a renter's market as NYC has been in 20 years; a few landlords are paying the broker's fee, but they remain the exceptions. Regardless, plan to negotiate on the broker's fee. They always ask more than they expect you to pay because most New Yorkers know to haggle.
Last edited by spondee on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:36 am

paratactical wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:This may be a silly question, but how does one go about looking for apartments from out of town? I cannot imagine going to new york's craigslist would be helpful. Are there free (for renters) brokers?


There are no brokers that don't charge a fee and in NYC it's pretty rare to have the landlord or management company pay the fee instead of the renter.

You'd have to talk to a broker and make arrangements to come to NYC and spend a weekend looking at apartments. You'll also probably have to pick one on the spot. Nice places don't frequently sit on the market very long, though they may stay for longer in the current economy if they are a little pricier.


Paragraph one is not always true. We worked with a no fee broker (the management company paid his fee, and this is probably reflected in the rents for all their properties, but this was better for us than a 15% outlay out front, which we didn't have).

Two is completely accurate. I purchased an option contract on my current apartment that was meant to buy me 24 hours to get paperwork from our guarantor. By the time I had the guarantor's signature, there were four people in line behind me, hoping I would change my mind. We next had to overnight the lease agreement to my roommate, who was traveling on the west coast. If I had not decided within five minutes of entering this apartment, I would not have gotten it. As it was, it sat on the open market for a grand total of four hours. (I am six blocks north of my school, and one block west of Central Park, and this is a decently priced apartment by Manhattan standards, which probably explains the insanity.)

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paratactical
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby paratactical » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:41 am

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:51 am

paratactical wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
paratactical wrote:
There are no brokers that don't charge a fee and in NYC it's pretty rare to have the landlord or management company pay the fee instead of the renter.


Paragraph one is not always true. We worked with a no fee broker (the management company paid his fee, and this is probably reflected in the rents for all their properties, but this was better for us than a 15% outlay out front, which we didn't have).


What I mean is that the broker always has a fee. It will get paid by the renter, the management company or the landlord/owner, but it will get paid somehow. There are some places where the owner/management company will pay the fee, but I think that's not very common in NYC.


Credited, my dear. Hopefully it becomes more common! NYC could use some downward pressure on COL, though that might mean things in the economy at large were getting even worse.

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Rocketman11
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby Rocketman11 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 am

tycho_brahe wrote:
Rocketman11 wrote:I currently live in DC and recommend it. COL sucks, but there are ways to make life work! NY is much more expensive and DC has jobs beyond BigLaw that you can get involved with (government, lobbying, etc) that NY won't really have.


NYC is not "much more expensive" unless you insist on living in Manhattan. It's about the same if you're living in Brooklyn. Granted you pay the same for a longer commute, but at least it's still the city. To save significant money in DC I'd imagine you'd have to live in the burbs. Also, there are certainly more ways to spend money in NYC than DC. But to say that, for a budget-conscious student, NYC is "much more expensive" is just not true, they're really about the same.


I am talking about comparable qualities of life. if you want to compare someone with a great apartment in Georgetown versus someone who sits on a train for over an hour in NYC, they are probably not similar enough. DC is smaller than NYC, obviously, and I know guys with a 30 minute train ride (+ 10 minute walk to the train) who live in amazing brand new townhouses and pay $450/mo rent each. I just dont think a comparable place (both in quality and proximity) is possible in NYC unless you live with cockroaches.

Of course you can be budget conscious, but I believe your dollar stretches a bit more in the DC area.

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paratactical
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Re: Going to law school in NYC a huge waste of money?

Postby paratactical » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:00 pm

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