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Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:32 pm
by snotrocket
Ranking of law schools by apparent "desirability" among candidates, based on various measures (using 2008 ABA data, since 2009 is not yet available).

FACTORS

(FTE is full-time enrollment)

MKT "Market Share" = Ratio of 1/2 FTE to M (where M = number of candidates per 100,000 with this school's median LSAT)
OFT Ratio of offers to FTE (negated)
GFT Ratio of students receiving large grants (at least 1/2 tuition) to FTE (negated)
OUT Ratio of transfers out to FTE (negated)

Brian Leiter came up with the idea of ranking schools by aggregate LSAT scores of entering students, on the theory that applicants with higher LSAT scores generally have more options, and so their choices where to attend reflect a "market participant" ranking of how desirable candidates on the whole find each given school. Unlike Leiter, I used median LSAT and calculated an estimated "market share" of students that each school enrolled, among those candidates who scored at or above that school's median LSAT. This ranking also takes Leiter's idea a couple steps further, by including other factors that reflect how much effort a school has to make to convince applicants to commit -- making more offers and giving larger grants -- as well as how many people bolt when given the chance at the end of 1L. Schools that make more offers, give more large grants, and shed more transfers out are assumed less "desirable" in this model.

The values used for each factor are percentile rank in each category, so that each weighs equally and proportionately in the total. The score is just the sum of the four factors.

RANKINGS

(Text list follows below the table)

broken_image

R X MKT OFT GFT OUT U2008 NAME
1 3.563 0.827 0.884 0.921 0.931 46 University of Florida (Levin)
2 3.360 0.801 0.890 0.785 0.884 38 University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
3 3.354 1.000 0.994 0.413 0.947 2 Harvard University (MA)
4 3.323 0.816 0.853 0.717 0.937 32 University of Georgia
5 3.260 0.994 0.764 0.560 0.942 4 Columbia University (NY)
6 3.249 0.947 0.905 0.450 0.947 2 Stanford University (CA)
7 3.140 0.780 0.989 0.570 0.801 46 Brigham Young University (Clark) (UT)
8 3.124 0.984 1.000 0.193 0.947 1 Yale University (CT)
9 3.108 0.942 0.858 0.617 0.691 16 University of Texas-Austin
10 3.061 0.633 0.895 0.837 0.696 95 University of South Carolina
11 3.055 0.952 0.617 0.769 0.717 9 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
12 3.003 0.664 0.696 0.989 0.654 82 Seattle University
13 2.987 0.732 0.575 0.853 0.827 55 University of Houston
14 2.961 0.926 0.502 0.952 0.581 27 Fordham University (NY)
15 2.946 0.989 0.565 0.445 0.947 5 New York University
16 2.935 0.712 0.638 0.821 0.764 77 Rutgers, the State Univ. of New Jersey-Camden
16 2.935 0.973 0.591 0.565 0.806 9 University of Virginia
18 2.888 0.544 0.952 0.602 0.790 68 Indiana University-Indianapolis
19 2.882 0.968 0.387 0.664 0.863 7 University of Chicago
20 2.861 0.041 0.942 0.931 0.947 T3 University of South Dakota
21 2.846 0.502 0.717 0.832 0.795 77 Georgia State University
22 2.824 0.795 0.732 0.371 0.926 36 University of Wisconsin-Madison
23 2.805 0.513 0.602 0.958 0.732 T4 South Texas College of Law
24 2.758 0.183 0.874 0.806 0.895 T4 Campbell University (Wiggins) (NC)
25 2.753 0.869 0.445 0.984 0.455 38 University of California (Hastings)
26 2.730 0.774 0.863 0.172 0.921 46 Southern Methodist University (TX)
27 2.706 0.937 0.204 0.963 0.602 20 George Washington University (DC)
27 2.706 0.785 0.759 0.513 0.649 42 University of Maryland
29 2.700 0.047 0.931 0.890 0.832 T3 University of Montana
30 2.689 0.931 0.581 0.303 0.874 16 University of California-Los Angeles
30 2.689 0.497 0.821 0.481 0.890 T4 William Mitchell College of Law (MN)
32 2.653 0.450 0.623 0.905 0.675 T4 St. Mary’s University (TX)
33 2.648 0.979 0.314 0.649 0.706 14 Georgetown University (DC)
34 2.601 0.230 0.916 0.539 0.916 T4 University of Memphis (Humphreys)
35 2.579 0.623 0.570 0.884 0.502 T3 Suffolk University (MA)
36 2.578 0.465 0.926 0.439 0.748 73 University of Kansas
37 2.553 0.717 0.910 0.089 0.837 32 University of Alabama
38 2.548 0.649 0.240 0.780 0.879 73 Lewis and Clark College (Northwestern) (OR)
39 2.543 0.743 0.366 0.586 0.848 32 University of Colorado-Boulder
40 2.537 0.842 0.178 0.947 0.570 30 College of William and Mary (Marshall-Wythe) (VA)
41 2.506 0.089 0.722 0.748 0.947 X Charleston School of Law
42 2.486 0.445 0.827 0.942 0.272 59 University of Missouri-Columbia
43 2.479 0.518 0.774 0.643 0.544 51 University of Utah (Quinney)
44 2.454 0.722 0.727 0.534 0.471 32 Ohio State University (Moritz)
44 2.454 0.026 0.785 0.801 0.842 T3 University of Wyoming
46 2.453 0.638 0.654 0.633 0.528 88 University of Denver (Sturm)
47 2.448 0.958 0.507 0.465 0.518 7 University of Pennsylvania
48 2.444 0.916 0.801 0.497 0.230 6 University of California-Berkeley
49 2.438 0.890 0.664 0.628 0.256 63 Brooklyn Law School (NY)
49 2.438 0.670 0.607 0.879 0.282 55 Florida State University
51 2.427 0.874 0.130 0.738 0.685 18 University of Southern California (Gould)
52 2.422 0.759 0.596 0.675 0.392 44 Tulane University (LA)
53 2.412 0.691 0.209 0.759 0.753 88 Northeastern University (MA)
54 2.406 0.429 0.842 0.188 0.947 88 Louisiana State University-Baton Rouge
55 2.391 0.560 0.256 0.874 0.701 82 University of Oregon
56 2.369 0.141 0.706 0.575 0.947 T3 University of Idaho
57 2.354 0.272 0.795 0.476 0.811 T3 University of Arkansas-Fayetteville
58 2.350 0.539 0.712 0.471 0.628 100 Stetson University (FL)
59 2.343 0.308 0.947 0.376 0.712 82 University of Hawaii (Richardson)
60 2.333 0.921 0.151 0.591 0.670 12 Duke University (NC)
61 2.323 0.476 0.848 0.183 0.816 T3 Texas Tech University
62 2.322 0.738 0.392 0.685 0.507 82 Loyola University Chicago
63 2.318 0.790 0.036 0.869 0.623 38 George Mason University (VA)
64 2.312 0.010 0.832 0.523 0.947 X Faulkner University
65 2.307 0.439 0.958 0.335 0.575 68 University of Oklahoma
66 2.306 0.057 0.973 0.418 0.858 T4 Southern University (LA)
67 2.297 0.895 0.738 0.240 0.424 22 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
68 2.291 0.685 0.675 0.293 0.638 66 Seton Hall University (NJ)
69 2.276 0.225 0.649 0.492 0.910 T4 Duquesne University (PA)
70 2.275 0.963 0.544 0.350 0.418 9 Northwestern University (IL)
71 2.260 0.099 0.937 0.324 0.900 T3 University of Arkansas-Little Rock (Bowen)
72 2.254 0.910 0.460 0.277 0.607 19 Washington University in St. Louis
73 2.249 0.848 0.219 0.507 0.675 26 Boston College
74 2.223 0.104 0.408 0.842 0.869 T3 University of Maine
75 2.222 0.591 0.554 0.973 0.104 T4 John Marshall Law School (IL)
76 2.192 0.534 0.879 0.638 0.141 100 University at Buffalo-SUNY
77 2.186 0.240 0.900 0.743 0.303 T3 West Virginia University
78 2.166 0.706 0.670 0.314 0.476 30 University of Washington
79 2.155 0.879 0.455 0.455 0.366 27 University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign
80 2.144 0.204 0.612 0.863 0.465 T4 Texas Southern University (Marshall)
81 2.134 0.596 0.979 0.005 0.554 46 University of Connecticut
82 2.129 0.727 0.162 0.979 0.261 44 University of California-Davis
83 2.119 0.764 0.057 0.518 0.780 59 Temple University (Beasley) (PA)
84 2.118 0.507 0.350 0.764 0.497 T3 Chapman University (CA)
84 2.118 0.036 0.869 0.392 0.821 T4 University of North Dakota
86 2.113 0.303 0.769 0.094 0.947 73 University of Nebraska-Lincoln
87 2.103 0.806 0.298 0.816 0.183 68 Villanova University (PA)
88 2.097 0.680 0.094 0.596 0.727 88 DePaul University (IL)
89 2.092 0.832 0.403 0.261 0.596 63 Loyola Marymount University (CA)
90 2.086 0.020 0.439 0.994 0.633 X Florida A&M School of Law
91 2.070 0.858 0.261 0.287 0.664 22 University of Notre Dame (IN)
92 2.061 0.701 0.753 0.115 0.492 27 University of Iowa
93 2.060 0.863 0.230 0.910 0.057 46 American University (Washington) (DC)
94 2.024 0.188 0.921 0.272 0.643 68 University of New Mexico
95 1.978 0.471 0.790 0.204 0.513 59 University of Kentucky
96 1.966 0.424 0.837 0.308 0.397 T3 Wayne State University (MI)
97 1.962 0.015 0.188 1.000 0.759 X John Marshall Law School (GA)
98 1.961 0.628 0.109 0.900 0.324 T3 New York Law School
99 1.956 0.837 0.225 0.282 0.612 22 Emory University (GA)
100 1.951 0.408 0.335 0.931 0.277 T3 University of Baltimore
100 1.951 0.319 0.811 0.162 0.659 88 University of Nevada-Las Vegas (Boyd)
102 1.940 0.570 0.382 0.219 0.769 95 St. Louis University
103 1.931 0.382 0.534 0.827 0.188 T4 Nova Southeastern University (Broad) (FL)
104 1.919 0.575 0.418 0.680 0.246 77 Rutgers, the State Univ. of New Jersey-Newark
105 1.915 0.005 0.963 0.000 0.947 X Liberty University
106 1.909 0.607 0.549 0.659 0.094 63 Case Western Reserve University (OH)
107 1.898 0.492 0.816 0.130 0.460 52 University of Tennessee-Knoxville
108 1.893 0.612 0.413 0.848 0.020 68 University of Richmond (Williams) (VA)
109 1.888 0.397 0.539 0.701 0.251 T3 Gonzaga University (WA)
109 1.888 0.675 0.319 0.109 0.785 88 St. John’s University (NY)
111 1.878 0.602 0.099 0.774 0.403 77 Santa Clara University (CA)
112 1.877 0.219 0.968 0.099 0.591 T4 Regent University (VA)
113 1.862 0.884 0.267 0.125 0.586 15 Vanderbilt University (TN)
114 1.850 0.643 0.643 0.214 0.350 73 University of Pittsburgh
115 1.846 0.565 0.680 0.361 0.240 52 Arizona State University (O’Connor)
116 1.835 0.554 0.193 0.607 0.481 95 University of the Pacific (McGeorge) (CA)
117 1.831 0.581 0.115 0.722 0.413 T3 University of San Francisco
118 1.830 0.811 0.198 0.434 0.387 36 Indiana University-Bloomington
119 1.810 0.434 0.308 0.712 0.356 95 Marquette University (WI)
120 1.809 0.853 0.371 0.209 0.376 55 Yeshiva University (Cardozo) (NY)
121 1.804 0.376 0.691 0.397 0.340 T3 University of Mississippi
122 1.799 0.329 0.685 0.340 0.445 T3 Cleveland State University (Cleveland-Marshall)
122 1.799 0.905 0.167 0.502 0.225 12 Cornell University (NY)
122 1.799 0.361 0.518 0.811 0.109 T3 Vermont Law School
125 1.752 0.455 0.329 0.670 0.298 T4 Southwestern Law School (CA)
125 1.752 0.267 0.293 0.753 0.439 T4 Texas Wesleyan University
127 1.731 0.282 0.806 0.267 0.376 T3 University of Missouri-Kansas City
128 1.720 0.769 0.523 0.120 0.308 66 Illinois Institute of Technology (Chicago-Kent)
129 1.705 0.350 0.984 0.010 0.361 T3 University of Toledo (OH)
130 1.689 0.654 0.277 0.198 0.560 59 Pepperdine University (CA)
131 1.679 0.314 0.528 0.408 0.429 T3 Creighton University (NE)
132 1.658 0.078 0.628 0.178 0.774 T4 North Carolina Central University
133 1.657 0.109 0.743 0.083 0.722 T4 Northern Kentucky University (Chase)
134 1.643 0.356 0.633 0.387 0.267 100 Mercer University (GA)
135 1.642 0.549 0.272 0.732 0.089 88 Catholic University of America (Columbus) (DC)
135 1.642 0.696 0.303 0.078 0.565 42 Wake Forest University (NC)
137 1.621 0.418 0.429 0.256 0.518 T3 Albany Law School-Union University (NY)
138 1.616 0.335 0.497 0.041 0.743 T3 University of St. Thomas (MN)
139 1.600 0.366 0.560 0.057 0.617 T3 Hamline University (MN)
140 1.595 0.162 0.701 0.581 0.151 T4 Mississippi College
141 1.594 0.528 0.141 0.727 0.198 77 Pennsylvania State University (Dickinson)
142 1.589 0.481 0.586 0.460 0.062 52 University of Cincinnati
143 1.579 0.235 0.486 0.424 0.434 T4 Capital University (OH)
143 1.579 0.209 0.356 0.795 0.219 T4 University of Detroit Mercy
145 1.574 0.052 0.434 0.926 0.162 X Widener University (PA)
146 1.564 0.146 0.157 0.968 0.293 T3 Franklin Pierce Law Center (NH)
147 1.553 0.120 0.492 0.036 0.905 T3 Howard University (DC)
148 1.538 0.748 0.136 0.246 0.408 82 University of San Diego
149 1.537 0.460 0.235 0.790 0.052 100 Syracuse University (NY)
150 1.527 0.403 0.780 0.146 0.198 T3 Samford University (Cumberland) (AL)
151 1.522 0.486 0.026 0.691 0.319 T4 Florida Coastal School of Law
152 1.511 0.340 0.282 0.858 0.031 T4 Widener University (DE)
153 1.510 0.821 0.020 0.382 0.287 25 Washington and Lee University (VA)
154 1.507 0.293 0.513 0.366 0.335 100 University of Louisville (Brandeis) (KY)
155 1.501 0.083 0.340 0.225 0.853 T4 Florida International University
156 1.490 0.900 0.078 0.141 0.371 21 Boston University
157 1.469 0.371 0.120 0.528 0.450 T3 Pace University (NY)
158 1.464 0.392 0.450 0.549 0.073 T3 Willamette University (Collins) (OR)
159 1.443 0.277 0.481 0.136 0.549 T3 Drake University (IA)
160 1.416 0.256 0.659 0.329 0.172 T3 Washburn University (KS)
161 1.406 0.167 0.345 0.696 0.198 T4 CUNY-Queens College
162 1.359 0.115 0.748 0.151 0.345 T4 Southern Illinois University-Carbondale
163 1.349 0.193 0.251 0.895 0.010 T4 Touro College (Fuchsberg) (NY)
164 1.348 0.659 0.287 0.073 0.329 38 University of Arizona (Rogers)
165 1.338 0.753 0.073 0.345 0.167 82 University of Miami (FL)
166 1.297 0.172 0.068 0.916 0.141 T4 University of Dayton (OH)
167 1.281 0.157 0.465 0.544 0.115 T4 Oklahoma City University
168 1.265 0.178 0.376 0.554 0.157 T4 University of Tulsa (OK)
169 1.224 0.387 0.089 0.623 0.125 T4 New England School of Law (MA)
170 1.197 0.586 0.324 0.052 0.235 T3 Michigan State University
171 1.166 0.617 0.052 0.429 0.068 99 Hofstra University (NY)
172 1.150 0.000 0.397 0.015 0.738 X University of LaVerne
173 1.134 0.340 0.047 0.706 0.041 T4 Golden Gate University (CA)
174 1.093 0.125 0.424 0.230 0.314 T4 Northern Illinois University
175 1.072 0.324 0.471 0.251 0.026 T3 Loyola University New Orleans
176 1.061 0.523 0.005 0.047 0.486 55 Baylor University (Umphrey) (TX)
177 1.050 0.413 0.125 0.319 0.193 T4 California Western School of Law
178 1.035 0.298 0.172 0.031 0.534 T3 University of Akron (OH)
179 0.999 0.031 0.476 0.356 0.136 T4 University of the District of Columbia (Clarke)
180 0.998 0.062 0.104 0.654 0.178 X Western State School of Law
181 0.957 0.251 0.010 0.157 0.539 T4 Thomas Jefferson School of Law (CA)
182 0.898 0.261 0.146 0.486 0.005 T4 St. Thomas University (FL)
183 0.851 0.094 0.015 0.612 0.130 T4 Barry University (FL)
184 0.814 0.287 0.031 0.298 0.198 T3 Quinnipiac University (CT)
185 0.742 0.246 0.214 0.167 0.115 T4 Roger Williams University (RI)
186 0.600 0.130 0.361 0.026 0.083 T4 Ave Maria School of Law (MI)
187 0.590 0.068 0.083 0.403 0.036 T4 Appalachian School of Law (VA)
188 0.584 0.151 0.183 0.235 0.015 T4 Valparaiso University (IN)
189 0.386 0.073 0.246 0.020 0.047 T3 Ohio Northern University (Pettit)
190 0.380 0.214 0.062 0.104 0.000 T4 Whittier Law School (CA)
191 0.379 0.198 0.041 0.062 0.078 T4 Western New England College (MA)
192 0.303 0.136 0.000 0.068 0.099 T4 Thomas M. Cooley Law School (MI)

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:38 pm
by OperaSoprano
I knew it! Looks awesome, snotrocket.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:40 pm
by galahad85
Awesome, my (possible) school is undesirable. 8)

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:41 pm
by Helmholtz
Now we know what name the Florida Law dean posts under.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:41 pm
by James Bond
...weird. I don't know how I feel about this.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:41 pm
by frank_the_tank
and Columbia continues to hold their vice-like grip on the #4 spot

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:43 pm
by Helmholtz
My list of the top 14 most desirable schools (not necessarily in this order):

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
NYU
Chicago
Berkeley
Penn
Michigan
Virginia
Northwestern
Duke
Cornell
Georgetown

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:44 pm
by D. H2Oman
South Texas College of Law at # 7. You should send this to them, I bet they would put it in their next brochure.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:44 pm
by doyleoil
it's been said before, possibly even tonight, but TTIWWOP

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:49 pm
by mjs1187
Check out Rutgers Camden @ #24.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:50 pm
by Esc
jeez, snotrocket, you've posted some interesting threads (IE the clerkship data thread), but these BS rankings threads are...dumb dumb dumb dumb DUMB

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:53 pm
by D. H2Oman
mjs1187 wrote:Check out Rutgers Camden @ #24.
lol

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:55 pm
by mjs1187
Dwaterman86 wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:Check out Rutgers Camden @ #24.
lol
Why is this funny?

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:56 pm
by James Bond
mjs1187 wrote:
Dwaterman86 wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:Check out Rutgers Camden @ #24.
lol
Why is this funny?
The fact that someone would want to live in Jersey lol

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:57 pm
by mjs1187
biv0ns wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:
Dwaterman86 wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:Check out Rutgers Camden @ #24.
lol
Why is this funny?
The fact that someone would want to live in Jersey lol
True the dirty jers is pretty lame

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:59 pm
by hmlee
This is.... interesting. I commend you for trying to develop such a method of ranking schools, but I have a question about your methodology. Specifically, in the grant area. It seems a bit flawed to me. Granted I'm no statistician, but I wonder how you account for these things:

1. Size of endowment (or other school resources) affecting ability to provide large grants to woo accepted students.

2. Possible preference of giving more people smaller grants rather than fewer people larger grants.

3. School perceived necessity of grants in the first place. Take Yale, for example. I doubt they give many full tuition (or even half tuition) scholarships. Then again, do they really have to? They are ranked the #1 school in the country and have been for some time. While there are people who turn down Yale - usually for one of the other top 5 schools, and sometimes because of money - I doubt that Yale feels as though it needs to give out such grants to accepteds to make them want to come. Most of us, if given the opportunity to attend Yale, would do so in a heartbeat. Regardless of money.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:01 pm
by D. H2Oman
mjs1187 wrote:
Dwaterman86 wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:Check out Rutgers Camden @ #24.
lol
Why is this funny?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... rime_x.htm

this is the only other time I here about Camden.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:02 pm
by biggamejames
mjs1187 wrote:
biv0ns wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:Why is this funny?
The fact that someone would want to live in Jersey lol
True the dirty jers is pretty lame
I've been to New York once and Camden once. I had a better time in Camden.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:03 pm
by Mr. Matlock
Wow! I had no idea Cornell was such a TTTT.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:04 pm
by doyleoil
Mr. Matlock wrote:Wow! I had no idea Cornell was such a TTTT.
small schools with nerds get hammered in these rankings

:)

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:05 pm
by bamboozledbear
Interesting info. Thanks!

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:07 pm
by doyleoil
bamboozledbear wrote:Interesting info. Thanks!
are you on drugs?

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:07 pm
by mjs1187
Dwaterman86 wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:
Dwaterman86 wrote:
mjs1187 wrote:Check out Rutgers Camden @ #24.
lol
Why is this funny?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... rime_x.htm

this is the only other time I here about Camden.
Granted that Camden is really an awful place to live. The law school is on the Delaware river and literally 5mins from Philly.

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:09 pm
by Mr. Matlock
doyleoil wrote:it's been said before, possibly even tonight, but TTIWWOP
broken_image

God I'm in love with this woman!

Re: Most Desirable Law Schools 2008

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:12 pm
by doyleoil
Mr. Matlock wrote:
doyleoil wrote:it's been said before, possibly even tonight, but TTIWWOP
broken_image

God I'm in love with this woman!
wow - for an athlete she's right up there with:

Image

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