Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

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Esc
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby Esc » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:02 am

I'm glad to see Texas placing so well. Are there any numbers which would indicate how many of these clerks are CoA vs District court?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:26 am

Ouch BU.

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ggocat
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby ggocat » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:35 am

Olto wrote:Is this only for class of '09 placement? I'm pretty sure that these stats are bunk if not -- that is, if they cover EVERY clerk from a school regardless of their graduation year. There are plenty of clerks who have been out of school for years.

Also, there are about ~960 clerks on that list. Let's further assume that there are some schools with maybe one clerk not on that list -- so we round the number to 1,000. There are roughly 800 active federal judges with another 450 senior judges. Let's assume that the average active judge has two clerks*. That means there are at least 1,600 clerk positions. The numbers above only cover a little more than half of that. I don't know how a "senior" judge operates, but even assuming that they only have ONE clerk -- that's another 450 right there that are unaccounted for.

* Keep in mind, with two per judge... I'm not counting the four [clerks] that each SCOTUS member has, and the high numbers that circuit courts normally have (upwards of four or five in many cases). Two per judge seems fair. The district court judge I am interning for has four clerks -- two full-time clerks, a deputy clerk, and a special master for a complex issue. Admittedly, she's probably in the minority with four at the district court level.

In sum, these numbers just don't make sense to me. I know two clerks from a single school alone, and I find it hard to believe that I know ~6% of the clerks from that school.

This must be for class of 2008, not 2009. U.S. News won't have data for class of 2009 yet.

The numbers make sense because many district judges have two law clerks completing two-year terms and stagger entry (one entering 2008, one entering 2009, etc.). Career clerks will also not be included because judges don't hire students for these positions. So probably 33-50% of clerks for district judges are not included in the list. Many circuit judges hire one or more term clerks who are law school graduates, and all SCOTUS justices only hire graduates. It would probably be conservative to say 20-33% of clerks for these judges are not included in the list. Finally, special masters and "deputy clerk" (assuming you mean courtroom deputy / courtroom clerk) are not considered law clerks. (And even if "deputy clerk" refers to the career law clerk, that person won't be included in the list because judges don't hire students for these positions).

snotrocket
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:51 pm

Updated to include figures for all schools and adjust various apparent errors.

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:52 pm

Esc wrote:I'm glad to see Texas placing so well. Are there any numbers which would indicate how many of these clerks are CoA vs District court?

Apparently not. US News only asked for the figure reflecting clerks employed by any Article III judge.

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:13 pm

The "success" of Regent and BYU in the first pass of these rankings appeared on further inspection to be unwarranted. See footnotes in the OP.

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:35 pm

Stem and leaf plot for number of clerks per school:

Code: Select all

10|4
09|
08|
07|
06|8
05|4
04|166
03|0667
02|00015578
01|000012222333455667788
00|111122222222222222222222233333333333333333333333344444444444444555555555555555555556666666667777778888999999
**|************************************
Last edited by snotrocket on Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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curiouser
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby curiouser » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:35 pm

snotrocket wrote:Stem and leaf plot for number of clerks per school:

nice. would love to see stem and leaf plot of proportionality figures.

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:41 pm

curiouser wrote:nice. would love to see stem and leaf plot of proportionality figures.

Code: Select all

36|8
35|
34|
33|
32|
31|
30|
29|
28|
27|
26|
25|
24|
23|0
22|
21|
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18|1
17|
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13|9
12|4
11|7
10|099
09|0
08|0169
07|0339
06|00688
05|0125678899
04|0222245788999
03|0000122444778899
02|00000002344466677789
01|00000000000001222334567788888999999
00|00000000000000000000000000000000000033334445666678999999999999999

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underdawg
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby underdawg » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:40 am

but which clerks are in traffic court?

anyway, i don't remember where i saw this earlier (lawclerkaddict) but i remember the data was quite different

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Nietzsche
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby Nietzsche » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:25 am

More food for the Michigan troll

:twisted:

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:35 pm

Nietzsche wrote:More food for the Michigan troll

:twisted:

:D

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:01 pm

underdawg wrote:but which clerks are in traffic court?

Reading comprehension pwned.

underdawg wrote:anyway, i don't remember where i saw this earlier (lawclerkaddict) but i remember the data was quite different

(1) LCA = LSN for Law Clerks. Incomplete data sets usually do produce different results from comprehensive surveys.
(2) Not sure how it is now, but in prior years LCA used to cover only COA clerks, which are a small subset of the Article III judiciary.
(3) LCA also did not distinguish alumni from current graduates -- USNWR asked for percent of the current class.
Last edited by snotrocket on Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jschuyler
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby jschuyler » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:11 pm

ugh why does gulc have to suck so hard at clerkship placement

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soullesswonder
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby soullesswonder » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:14 pm

Duke at #6....and yet it continues to be panned by TLS. Some will never learn.

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:21 pm

jschuyler wrote:ugh why does gulc have to suck so hard at clerkship placement

They fall in 7th by number of clerks, right alongside Columbia and NYU. I wouldn't call that sucking. Only thing that kills them on the percentage is their crazy huge class size.

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underdawg
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby underdawg » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:15 am

snotrocket wrote:
underdawg wrote:but which clerks are in traffic court?

Reading comprehension pwned.

underdawg wrote:anyway, i don't remember where i saw this earlier (lawclerkaddict) but i remember the data was quite different

(1) LCA = LSN for Law Clerks. Incomplete data sets usually do produce different results from comprehensive surveys.
(2) Not sure how it is now, but in prior years LCA used to cover only COA clerks, which are a small subset of the Article III judiciary.
(3) LCA also did not distinguish alumni from current graduates -- USNWR asked for percent of the current class.

well pwn me by telling the answer. none?

be a helpful pwner

did this include non-right-out-of-law-school clerks?

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dbt
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby dbt » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:18 am

soullesswonder wrote:Duke at #6....and yet it continues to be panned by TLS. Some will never learn.


I am impressed by Duke's showing. Really I don't see why it gets a bad rap on TLS...I mean, sure it sucks in non-quantifiable terms, but placement seems to be spot on.

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Joan Manuel Serrat
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby Joan Manuel Serrat » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:21 am

soullesswonder wrote:Duke at #6....and yet it continues to be panned by TLS. Some will never learn.


Yale at #1....and yet it continues to be salivated over by TLS. Some never forget.

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:51 am

underdawg wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
underdawg wrote:where i saw this earlier (lawclerkaddict) but i remember the data was quite different

(3) LCA also did not distinguish alumni from current graduates -- USNWR asked for percent of the current class.

did this include non-right-out-of-law-school clerks?

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby snotrocket » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:33 am

Proportion of all clerks accounted for by top X schools, ranked by number of clerks:

(e.g. 25% of all clerks accounted for by top 6 [top 3.3%] of schools ranked by number of clerks)

% / P / N
0.250 0.033 6
0.500 0.109 20
0.750 0.279 51
0.800 0.344 63
0.900 0.503 92

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como
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby como » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:49 am

I love seeing some data to make people STFU about Duke and Cornell for a minute. Wait, it probably wont matter anyway.

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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby amped » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:28 pm

I have to say I'm impressed with New Mexico's percentage...although it may just be that no one else wants to go to New Mexico.

Cal4future
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby Cal4future » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:33 pm

:D ND!

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lawlover829
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Re: Clerkship Placement Stats 2009

Postby lawlover829 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:39 pm

Wow.




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