Clerkship Placement Stats 2009 Forum

[marshalltucker]

Alabama and Wake Forest look real impressive, maybe game-changing impressive.

[Kobe_Teeth]

Chicago-Kent, 42 and 23???

Barely behind UIUC, impressive.

[Veritas]

How much should these rankings factor into decision making if you want to clerk?

Is it that, say, less people at BU want clerkships and that's why they have few or do people not place well into clerkships from BU?

I'm unsure how/whether to factor this in, or at what point it should become a factor.

[insidethetwenty]

How much should these rankings factor into decision making if you want to clerk?

Is it that, say, less people at BU want clerkships and that's why they have few or do people not place well into clerkships from BU?

I'm unsure how/whether to factor this in, or at what point it should become a factor.

I think they factor in the decision between non-T14 w/ full ride vs. lower T14 or V/T/U at sticker. If you want to clerk on a Federal COA, being at a T14 gives you much better chances of doing so than being at, say, BU.

However if you don't really care about clerking (and you don't really care about BigLaw), then BU with a big scholarship might be better than a T14 at sticker.

[fortissimo]

Is it that, say, less people at BU want clerkships and that's why they have few or do people not place well into clerkships from BU?

Hard to say, although I think clerkships are considered the "top" jobs straight out of law school. I think a lot of people want to clerk, but some might be dissuaded from applying because of their grades, or perhaps biglaw (in the past anyway) was just a much quicker way of resolving employment since you don't typically apply for clerkships until after 2L year. It opens doors for top-notch federal government jobs like the DOJ that pretty much require clerkships (and top notch grades) and it qualifies you for much larger first year bonuses if you go into biglaw afterwards. Some people I've known first secured a job with a biglaw firm, applied to clerkships, and then deferred a year at the firm to clerk. (Clerkships, I believe, typically run 1-2 years.)

[Blindmelon]

Is it that, say, less people at BU want clerkships and that's why they have few or do people not place well into clerkships from BU?

Hard to say, although I think clerkships are considered the "top" jobs straight out of law school. I think a lot of people want to clerk, but some might be dissuaded from applying because of their grades, or perhaps biglaw (in the past anyway) was just a much quicker way of resolving employment since you don't typically apply for clerkships until after 2L year. It opens doors for top-notch federal government jobs like the DOJ that pretty much require clerkships (and top notch grades) and it qualifies you for much larger first year bonuses if you go into biglaw afterwards. Some people I've known first secured a job with a biglaw firm, applied to clerkships, and then deferred a year at the firm to clerk. (Clerkships, I believe, typically run 1-2 years.)

There could be a few reasons few BU's low placement: BC and BU are in a really competitive district (think the monster across the river) - and while in Boston, BU/BC can actually hold their own against the H-bomb, judges are a different story.
We're getting a lot better though. There is also noticeably little interest in clerkships, everyone seems gung-ho law firm or government work - haven't heard of many people even applying of the 3Ls I know. We do really well in prestigious state clerkships (Mass Supreme, RI/ Vermont Supreme, etc.). A lot of alums have done federal level clerkships, but I guess they do it after clerking in the state or working for a bit - not sure about this.

As for summer internships, we get tons of judge-love. 2 of my friends have fed. district internships and a bunch have state level.

[fortissimo]

Is it that, say, less people at BU want clerkships and that's why they have few or do people not place well into clerkships from BU?

Hard to say, although I think clerkships are considered the "top" jobs straight out of law school. I think a lot of people want to clerk, but some might be dissuaded from applying because of their grades, or perhaps biglaw (in the past anyway) was just a much quicker way of resolving employment since you don't typically apply for clerkships until after 2L year. It opens doors for top-notch federal government jobs like the DOJ that pretty much require clerkships (and top notch grades) and it qualifies you for much larger first year bonuses if you go into biglaw afterwards. Some people I've known first secured a job with a biglaw firm, applied to clerkships, and then deferred a year at the firm to clerk. (Clerkships, I believe, typically run 1-2 years.)

There could be a few reasons few BU's low placement: BC and BU are in a really competitive district (think the monster across the river) - and while in Boston, BU/BC can actually hold their own against the H-bomb, judges are a different story.
We're getting a lot better though. There is also noticeably little interest in clerkships, everyone seems gung-ho law firm or government work - haven't heard of many people even applying of the 3Ls I know. We do really well in prestigious state clerkships (Mass Supreme, RI/ Vermont Supreme, etc.). A lot of alums have done federal level clerkships, but I guess they do it after clerking in the state or working for a bit - not sure about this.

As for summer internships, we get tons of judge-love. 2 of my friends have fed. district internships and a bunch have state level.

Yeah, schools with students that spread out more geographically probably fare better in clerkships and any big city tends to be really competitive for obtaining a clerkship. Regarding government work, a lot of federal government positions require clerkships. State government, not so much.

Summer internships are another ballgame from clerkships. They are relatively much easier to get and don't pay anything.

[irishman86]

How much should these rankings factor into decision making if you want to clerk?

If the schools are within range of each other, $$ should probs still be more important since clerking is still unlikely outside of Y. If within range and similar costs, then these rankings should be the deciding factor.

[postitnotes]

edit

[TTT-LS]

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[women'ssoccer]

Wake Forest is dominating UNC, both clerkships and NJL250 wise!?!?!

[jss1100]

Wake Forest is dominating UNC, both clerkships and NJL250 wise!?!?!

Only thing I can think of is maybe because such a high % of students are NC residents at UNC self selection leads them to choosing whats available in NC only? While Wake may have more students more willing to leave NC for the NJL250 jobs?

I dont know though. UNC has a really good rep score, so its hard to imagine UNC students have a harder time than Wake Forest getting these jobs.

[observationalist]

Bumping with Vandy's new clerkship info for the 2009-2010 cycle released last week.

[Edited to distinguish district/appellate and class of 2010 vs other years]:

Total Art III district clerkships: 21
Total Art III appellate clerkships (including Roberts clerk): 9
Total Art III bankruptcy clerkships: 3
Grand total: 33

Totals for class of 2010 only:
District: 18
Appellate: 8 (everyone except the Roberts clerk)
Bankruptcy: 3
Total: 29 (but with two students getting two clerkships each, so really just 27)
Total % of the Class of 2010 with at least one Art III clerkship: 14%


This puts us above where Penn was last year for total Art III clerkships, and they thypically graduate 30 or so more than we do. This was also during a more competitive year. Prof (Mike) Bressman is doing an excellent job running the clerkship program and we are very glad to see he and Prof (Lisa) Bressman are staying in Nashville for the time being.

[Esc]

Bumping with Vandy's new clerkship info for the 2009-2010 cycle released last week.

Art III Clerkships: 28 (a record)
Total Class of 2010: 195
Art III Clerkships as percentage of the Class of 2010: 14% (including recent graduates)
Total Art III clerkships for Class of 2010 grads (which excludes recent graduates, including an '05 grad who will be clerking for Roberts): ___ [will fill in next time I get a chance to look at the list up on Main Street... expecting it to be about 10%.

This puts us right up with where UPenn was last year for total Art III clerkships, and that's with a smaller total class size by about 25 students and during a more competitive year. Prof (Mike) Bressman is doing an excellent job running the clerkship program and I'm glad to see he and Prof (Lisa) Bressman are staying in Nashville for the time being.

Vandy is kicking A. What's the COA/District Court breakdown on those 28?

[observationalist]

Bumping with Vandy's new clerkship info for the 2009-2010 cycle released last week.

Art III Clerkships: 28 (a record)
Total Class of 2010: 195
Art III Clerkships as percentage of the Class of 2010: 14% (including recent graduates)
Total Art III clerkships for Class of 2010 grads (which excludes recent graduates, including an '05 grad who will be clerking for Roberts): ___ [will fill in next time I get a chance to look at the list up on Main Street... expecting it to be about 10%.

This puts us right up with where UPenn was last year for total Art III clerkships, and that's with a smaller total class size by about 25 students and during a more competitive year. Prof (Mike) Bressman is doing an excellent job running the clerkship program and I'm glad to see he and Prof (Lisa) Bressman are staying in Nashville for the time being.

Vandy is kicking A. What's the COA/District Court breakdown on those 28?

Excellent question. I'm off to school in a few and will check the masthead while I'm there. I can also fill in the exact number from my class who landed Art III clerkships and break that down as well. I understand people look at total clerkships for a given cycle but it seems a bit disingenuous to group an '05 SCOTUS clerk in with my friends who are just about to graduate. After all, she was already counted once when she graduated and got her first clerkship.

[fortissimo]

Since we're all trolling for schools...

I believe Michigan has placed OVER 20% into Article III clerkships this year. Not sure what the exact number is, but placement has also increased. Maybe someone else who knows the precise stat can fill it in.

[observationalist]

Since we're all trolling for schools...

I believe Michigan has placed OVER 20% into Article III clerkships this year. Not sure what the exact number is, but placement has also increased. Maybe someone else who knows the precise stat can fill it in.

That's pretty solid, and a big jump from Class of '07 (last year for which I found data). Any reports on where you got the information? Or how many students out of that 20% are actually in the Class of '10?

According to USNews ranking of '07 grad here http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... iii_clerks, Vandy's total 17% placement this year in Art III clerkships puts us right around what Harvard did two years ago. I guess it makes sense to see a lot of schools sending higher percentages into clerkships this year, but 20% is great. Wonder how it's all gonna shake out.

[yourdadcalled]

Since we're all trolling for schools...

I believe Michigan has placed OVER 20% into Article III clerkships this year. Not sure what the exact number is, but placement has also increased. Maybe someone else who knows the precise stat can fill it in.

What is the basis for your belief?

[TTT-LS]

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[tram988]

That's pretty solid, and a big jump from Class of '07 (last year for which I found data). Any reports on where you got the information? Or how many students out of that 20% are actually in the Class of '10?

According to USNews ranking of '07 grad here http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... iii_clerks, Vandy's total 17% placement this year in Art III clerkships puts us right around what Harvard did two years ago. I guess it makes sense to see a lot of schools sending higher percentages into clerkships this year, but 20% is great. Wonder how it's all gonna shake out.

Interesting data. Haven't seen this before tonight. Thanks

[fortissimo]

Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry's ASW. Panel mentioned the new placement. I don't know what the precise statistic is, but it's over 20%. Not sure how many are in the class of 2010 (maybe someone else knows on here?)

Well, are you sure they said 20%+ in Article III clerkships, or 20%+ in clerkships? There's obviously a big difference b/t the two. Also, as others have asked, there's the matter of alumni being rolled in w/students (plus the sub-issue of the completeness of alumni reporting).

k...post got deleted (april's fools or what?)

1) They reported this data at Mich's ASW.
2) All Article III clerkships. It's not that surprising considering Michigan in previous years typically placed 14% into Article III, so ~20% current placement seems reasonable.
3) No idea how many are from the class of 2010.

[270910]

I think all top schools will see clerkship bumps this year, because deferred associates jumped back into the fray. Every school marked clerkships as a lifeboat, but only the top schools had the punch + the out of luck (with respect to firm jobs) grads to make that a reality.

[fortissimo]

I think all top schools will see clerkship bumps this year, because deferred associates jumped back into the fray. Every school marked clerkships as a lifeboat, but only the top schools had the punch + the out of luck (with respect to firm jobs) grads to make that a reality.

Yeah...I want to see what the employment stats look like in next year's rankings though. I don't think this year's reflects the downfall.

[XxSpyKEx]

Interesting

[Texasboundanddown]

How is Houston so high on that list? And Texas beasted, suhhhhhweeet.