UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

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sandy10
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby sandy10 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:52 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
fortissimo wrote:If PI, UVA.

If anything else, Harvard, including if you want to work outside of the legal field. People don't know what UVA is outside of law (well, my parents STILL confuse it with virginia tech), but everyone knows what the H-bomb is.

This is terribly stupid. If you know before you go to law school that you want to work outside of the legal field, the correct answer is don't go to law school, not this.

It does not matter what people think of a school outside of the law. You go to law school to become a lawyer, and lawyers know UVA's value as a degree. Lay prestige should be of exactly 0% importance in a decision like this.


To be fair I don't know if you are aware, but Harvard Law does really really well with sending people to investment banks, management consulting firms, private equity, venture capital, and even general business jobs. This is something that simply cannot be said of law schools like UVA and Michigan. Non law prestige can be very helpful if you decide to switch careers later etc. The flexibility that Harvard Law provides is unreal.

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Snoopy1216
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby Snoopy1216 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:58 pm

I feel like if you don't want harvard or stanford so bad that all other acceptances seem non existent, you should give your spot to someone who does feel that way (IMO). Plus, if you are going into public service, I don't see a full ride at a T10 school as "settling".

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:03 pm

sandy10 wrote:To be fair I don't know if you are aware, but Harvard Law does really really well with sending people to investment banks, management consulting firms, private equity, venture capital, and even general business jobs. This is something that simply cannot be said of law schools like UVA and Michigan. Non law prestige can be very helpful if you decide to switch careers later etc. The flexibility that Harvard Law provides is unreal.

But it's still your legal background that's being relied on in those jobs. It's not the fact that you graduated from Harvard that gets you those, it's the fact that you graduated from Harvard Law. Banking, corporate management, and venture capital positions are all places where it'd be extremely useful to have a legal background because of how many laws there are that govern these things and affect your profitability. There aren't that many of these jobs to go around, though, which is why an HLS degree is so important.

This isn't a lay prestige thing at all. They know what legal skills you're bringing and that's what they're buying when they hire you. You're still deeply involved in the law at those kinds of jobs.

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englawyer
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby englawyer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:27 am

vanwinkle wrote:
sandy10 wrote:To be fair I don't know if you are aware, but Harvard Law does really really well with sending people to investment banks, management consulting firms, private equity, venture capital, and even general business jobs. This is something that simply cannot be said of law schools like UVA and Michigan. Non law prestige can be very helpful if you decide to switch careers later etc. The flexibility that Harvard Law provides is unreal.

But it's still your legal background that's being relied on in those jobs. It's not the fact that you graduated from Harvard that gets you those, it's the fact that you graduated from Harvard Law. Banking, corporate management, and venture capital positions are all places where it'd be extremely useful to have a legal background because of how many laws there are that govern these things and affect your profitability. There aren't that many of these jobs to go around, though, which is why an HLS degree is so important.

This isn't a lay prestige thing at all. They know what legal skills you're bringing and that's what they're buying when they hire you. You're still deeply involved in the law at those kinds of jobs.


I disagree a bit there. HLS has recruiting events specifically for business functions:

http://www.trumba.com/calendars/career-events#/?i=2

"Bain & Company HLS Presentation"
"Purpose of event is to inform 2Ls and 3Ls about employment opportunities at Bain."

"If you're interested in learning more about Morgan Stanley and career opportunities in investment banking, please join the panel discussion on "Investment Banking Opportunities for JDs". Several HLS alumni from Morgan Stanley's Investment Banking Division (IBD) will be making a presentation geared towards HLS students on how to make the transition from law to finance and what concrete steps to take. The panel is followed by a Q&A session and time afterwards to informally meet and speak with the Morgan Stanley team."

Also, JDs are hired into Mckinsey as business consultants:
http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/is_mcki ... egree.aspx



It seems like Harvard's overall reputation in business does carry to law. There are also numerous examples of HLS alums in business roles (current CEO of Goldman Sachs among others).

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englawyer
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby englawyer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:29 am

btw, i wouldn't advocate giving up a free ride specifically for the small chance at those opportunities at HLS. the odds are still very low that you will be able to get one of those jobs i think, just probably higher than UVA.

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pu_golf88
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby pu_golf88 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:35 am

Harvard, I say that if for some reason you want to get out of PI. While UVA is an amazing school, having Harvard Law on your resume could do so much for you.

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JackieTreehorn
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby JackieTreehorn » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:15 am

Had roughly this same choice (M/V for free, Stanford, Harvard). Chose Stanford and don't regret it. Planning on going into public interest.

Don't underestimate financial aid at HYS, particularly Stanford. My overall bill is cut roughly in half, to an estimated 100k debt at graduation. A full ride w/o living expenses would've put me at 40/50k debt. This is not a trivial difference, but it's not tremendous either. Particularly with LRAP if I end up in a job with a modest salary. If I remember correctly, Stanford basically pays all your loan debts for the year if your salary is under 60k and a sizable chunk at 80k.

Visit the schools, talk to students and graduates, and figure out where you need to be. For me it was Stanford.

kajosa
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby kajosa » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:57 pm

.
Last edited by kajosa on Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:01 pm

Poll would be nice.

Harvard.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA tuition free or stanford/harvard full tuition

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:10 pm

englawyer wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
sandy10 wrote:To be fair I don't know if you are aware, but Harvard Law does really really well with sending people to investment banks, management consulting firms, private equity, venture capital, and even general business jobs. This is something that simply cannot be said of law schools like UVA and Michigan. Non law prestige can be very helpful if you decide to switch careers later etc. The flexibility that Harvard Law provides is unreal.

But it's still your legal background that's being relied on in those jobs. It's not the fact that you graduated from Harvard that gets you those, it's the fact that you graduated from Harvard Law. Banking, corporate management, and venture capital positions are all places where it'd be extremely useful to have a legal background because of how many laws there are that govern these things and affect your profitability. There aren't that many of these jobs to go around, though, which is why an HLS degree is so important.

This isn't a lay prestige thing at all. They know what legal skills you're bringing and that's what they're buying when they hire you. You're still deeply involved in the law at those kinds of jobs.

I disagree a bit there. HLS has recruiting events specifically for business functions:

http://www.trumba.com/calendars/career-events#/?i=2

"Bain & Company HLS Presentation"
"Purpose of event is to inform 2Ls and 3Ls about employment opportunities at Bain."

"If you're interested in learning more about Morgan Stanley and career opportunities in investment banking, please join the panel discussion on "Investment Banking Opportunities for JDs". Several HLS alumni from Morgan Stanley's Investment Banking Division (IBD) will be making a presentation geared towards HLS students on how to make the transition from law to finance and what concrete steps to take. The panel is followed by a Q&A session and time afterwards to informally meet and speak with the Morgan Stanley team."

Also, JDs are hired into Mckinsey as business consultants:
http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/is_mcki ... egree.aspx



It seems like Harvard's overall reputation in business does carry to law. There are also numerous examples of HLS alums in business roles (current CEO of Goldman Sachs among others).

I don't understand. You said "I disagree" but then said things that don't disagree with me. This is Harvard Law School that's offering you these connections. That's not "Harvard's overall reputation in business" carrying into law, that's Harvard Law School's reputation in business leadership being that strong. Those people are being hired for their HLS JDs, not just simply because they "went to Harvard". It's the HLS JD specifically that opens those doors for you, not some overall Harvard reputation or the overall lay prestige of having attending Harvard U.

If it were simply lay prestige of Harvard, you'd see a lot more folks with just degrees in English or Philosophy from Harvard running Goldman Sachs too.




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