Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

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NoamChomsky
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Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby NoamChomsky » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:59 pm

--LinkRemoved--

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Medical School: $24,232

1yr (3qrt) Tuition for Dental School: $28,233

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Law School: $30,802 (soon to be bumped to 36k)

1 yr (3 qrt) Tuition for Business School: $31,845

Why do students (the market) tolerate this? I know dental schools and medical schools require an enormous amount of money to maintain clinics, research, equipment, etc.... but how does one justify the higher tuition for law schools (and b-schools for that matter) ?

*edited for clarity
Last edited by NoamChomsky on Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous0L

Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby Anonymous0L » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:01 pm

don't forget the fees

showNprove
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby showNprove » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:02 pm

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Last edited by showNprove on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NoamChomsky
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby NoamChomsky » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:03 pm

Jwatson wrote:don't forget the fees


Oh sorry.. tuition is technically 'free' and instead the UC charges 'education fees'.

waitingforanswers
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby waitingforanswers » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:06 pm

I believe it's just you.

NoamChomsky
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:23 pm

Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby NoamChomsky » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:08 pm

showNprove wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand


I guess my question is why do students pay for something they know shouldn't cost as much. It seems pretty irrational.

waitingforanswers
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby waitingforanswers » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:12 pm

NoamChomsky wrote:
showNprove wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand


I guess my question is why do students pay for something they know shouldn't cost as much. It seems pretty irrational.


Because what else are they going to do? Protest by not going?

reallyreallyreally
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby reallyreallyreally » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:13 pm

That's usually how supply/demand works. If something's over priced, it doesn't get purchased.

bigben
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby bigben » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:14 pm

NoamChomsky wrote:http://www.registrar.ucla.edu/fees/fall08fee.htm

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Medical School: $24,232

1yr (3qrt) Tuition for Dental School: $28,233

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Law School: $30,802 (soon to be bumped to 36k)

1 yr (3 qrt) Tuition for Business School: $31,845

Why do students (the market) tolerate this? I know dental schools and medical schools require an enormous amount of money to maintain clinics, research, equipment, etc.... but how does a law schools (and b-schools for that matter) justify the higher tuition?


Many law schools are at 40-45k.

The price is (appropriately) determined by the market.

At a few schools, such high tuition may be sustainable where grads can expect to be among the select few that make 100-160k upon graduation (or be provided with a generous LRAP?). Beyond that, such high tuition is not sustainable. Many law schools get their livelihood by exploiting the ignorance of their matriculants (i.e., a law degree is inherently prestigious and will get you a good job). This might just continue forever, as long as someone is willing to sign on the dotted line to *GASP* become a lawyer!

Fortunately, many state schools offer reasonable tuition and most law schools give merit aid for applicants wise enough to trade money for rankings where appropriate (e.g., T1->T2).
Last edited by bigben on Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hoosier1508
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby hoosier1508 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:15 pm

I wouldn't say its a scam.

It's certainly overpriced, but law schools will continue to increase tuition as long as there are students willing to pay it.

Law schools have found that raising tuition is an easier method of raising revenues than seeking out more donors.

Maybe it will go down once law students collectively decide not to pay full sticker and enter the workforce instead.

NoamChomsky
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby NoamChomsky » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:18 pm

Any one have any solid statistics on how many students default on educational loans?

helvidius2010
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby helvidius2010 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:56 pm

NoamChomsky wrote:
showNprove wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand


I guess my question is why do students pay for something they know shouldn't cost as much. It seems pretty irrational.


The federal government distorts rational supply and demand in this situation by passing out student loan money like candy on Halloween. Does it help many people afford school? Yes. But it also makes sure that most go into tremendous debt once we are there.

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Antop
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby Antop » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:01 pm

showNprove wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand


+1

pomona
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby pomona » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:03 pm

helvidius2010 wrote:
NoamChomsky wrote:
showNprove wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand


I guess my question is why do students pay for something they know shouldn't cost as much. It seems pretty irrational.


The federal government distorts rational supply and demand in this situation by passing out student loan money like candy on Halloween. Does it help many people afford school? Yes. But it also makes sure that most go into tremendous debt once we are there.

+1

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samsamuelson
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby samsamuelson » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:09 pm

For starters how much money do you think it costs to get leaders of government agencies like the FCC to drop their careers and enter professorship with your law, business, or med school? A LOT!!!

NoamChomsky wrote:http://www.registrar.ucla.edu/fees/fall08fee.htm

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Medical School: $24,232

1yr (3qrt) Tuition for Dental School: $28,233

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Law School: $30,802 (soon to be bumped to 36k)

1 yr (3 qrt) Tuition for Business School: $31,845

Why do students (the market) tolerate this? I know dental schools and medical schools require an enormous amount of money to maintain clinics, research, equipment, etc.... but how does one justify the higher tuition for law schools (and b-schools for that matter) ?

*edited for clarity

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bgc
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby bgc » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:17 pm

helvidius2010 wrote:The federal government distorts rational supply and demand in this situation by passing out student loan money like candy on Halloween. Does it help many people afford school? Yes. But it also makes sure that most go into tremendous debt once we are there.


That's what happens when you take loans.

The new federal LRAP should do a lot to help people pay their loans. I don't think that amount of tuition is unreasonable. You're attending a school that will prepare you for a career. Compare it to tuition for college--it's about the same. Loans + LRAP will allow people to pursue a career in law and promote public service as a viable (and for some, required) career choice.

I am glad that the government supports education at least to the extent of assistance with loans. SOMEONE should warn everyone at Cooley that their career prospects are poor, but I wouldn't want the government making decisions about who deserved funding based on their educational prospects.

showNprove
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby showNprove » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:21 pm

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Last edited by showNprove on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

araiza99
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby araiza99 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:27 pm

Meant to discourage poor students from applying.

bigben
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby bigben » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:42 pm

helvidius2010 wrote:
NoamChomsky wrote:
showNprove wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand


I guess my question is why do students pay for something they know shouldn't cost as much. It seems pretty irrational.


The federal government distorts rational supply and demand in this situation by passing out student loan money like candy on Halloween. Does it help many people afford school? Yes. But it also makes sure that most go into tremendous debt once we are there.



Absolutely credited.

araiza99
Posts: 86
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby araiza99 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:50 pm

NoamChomsky wrote:
I guess my question is why do students pay for something they know shouldn't cost as much. It seems pretty irrational.


You mean like buying designer cloths when we can get comparable quality for 1/5 the price? Why do these behaviors defy economic theory? There are other social components that we overvalue.

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sawwaverunner
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby sawwaverunner » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:51 pm

NoamChomsky wrote:http://www.registrar.ucla.edu/fees/fall08fee.htm

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Medical School: $24,232

1yr (3qrt) Tuition for Dental School: $28,233

1yr (2 sem) Tuition for Law School: $30,802 (soon to be bumped to 36k)

1 yr (3 qrt) Tuition for Business School: $31,845

Why do students (the market) tolerate this? I know dental schools and medical schools require an enormous amount of money to maintain clinics, research, equipment, etc.... but how does one justify the higher tuition for law schools (and b-schools for that matter) ?

*edited for clarity


I kinda like it .... besides, if I didn't spend all that money on Law School, i'd probably just blow it all on candy or state-of-the art video game systems. I'm totally just kidding.

I think it makes more sense to people who went to private schools for undergrad and know how much that can cost. On the other hand, maybe the cost will seem even more outrageous for them, considering the amount they have already spent--barring large scholarships. I suppose as long as you play it smart and don't go into a lot of debt for LS then everything will be alright. There are definitely options out there for law students who want a cheap/beneficial legal education.

bigben
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby bigben » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:52 pm

bgc wrote:
helvidius2010 wrote:The federal government distorts rational supply and demand in this situation by passing out student loan money like candy on Halloween. Does it help many people afford school? Yes. But it also makes sure that most go into tremendous debt once we are there.


That's what happens when you take loans.

The new federal LRAP should do a lot to help people pay their loans. I don't think that amount of tuition is unreasonable. You're attending a school that will prepare you for a career. Compare it to tuition for college--it's about the same. Loans + LRAP will allow people to pursue a career in law and promote public service as a viable (and for some, required) career choice.

I am glad that the government supports education at least to the extent of assistance with loans. SOMEONE should warn everyone at Cooley that their career prospects are poor, but I wouldn't want the government making decisions about who deserved funding based on their educational prospects.



The bolded--it's worth noting that any distortion already occurring (seriously, who can pretend that the COST of the higher "education," booming across the country, even remotely resembles its VALUE) will be exacerbated greatly when you go from handing out loans like candy to also helping people pay them back (to continue the analogy, shelling out cash for the resulting dental bills?) It also does not solve the underlying problem of having too much debt--we just all go into debt instead of the individual who made the bad choice.

If government stopped providing unlimited educational loans without restriction (where have we heard of this before, something to do with housing...?), it's not at all implausible that you would see a commensurate reduction in the cost of education. Education is a racket right now. There is a reason that institutions of higher education closely guard the details of their financials.

aryncita
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby aryncita » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:10 am

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Last edited by aryncita on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dapoetic1
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby dapoetic1 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:25 am

Same reason they paid $4 for gas.
Because someone has something you want and they've set a price for it.
There isn't another (respectable) path to practicing law aside from going to law school.
Unless all future lawyers ban together and refuse to never attend law school again I don't know if there's a way to make institutions feel that they're charging an outrageous fee.
But honestly, there are many schools, professors, and deans that feel that tuition in general not just law school tuition is out of control. It's really the financial aid and economic crisis that's causing the issue. The banks are giving less money and are tighter on credit but students require more of it.

showNprove
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Re: Is it just me... or is law school tuition is a SCAM

Postby showNprove » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:28 am

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Last edited by showNprove on Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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