UMich vs. Cornell

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UMich vs. Cornell

 
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UTaustin
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UMich vs. Cornell

Postby UTaustin » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:32 pm

I have been accepted into these two schools.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts on which school you'd choose if you were in my shoes, in terms of job prospects and academic environment at the schools. I've always respected and liked the reputation UMich enjoys in the legal field, but Cornell's ivy league status and overall ranking are quite attractive as well.

Please be kind in the response. Thank you in advance.

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waldodanto
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby waldodanto » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:36 pm

I'd prefer to live in Ann Arbor for 3 years. They are both great schools, it would come down to money for me I think.

lawguy123
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby lawguy123 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:37 pm

UTaustin wrote:I have been accepted into these two schools.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts on which school you'd choose if you were in my shoes, in terms of job prospects and academic environment at the schools. I've always respected and liked the reputation UMich enjoys in the legal field, but Cornell's ivy league status and overall ranking are quite attractive as well.

Please be kind in the response. Thank you in advance.


Quite honestly I think unless you are offered a very substantial aid package from Cornell, UM is the better choice. All things being equal....UM hands down.

hoosier1508
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby hoosier1508 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:54 pm

Assuming all things equal on the financial side... Michigan.
Last edited by hoosier1508 on Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:18 am, edited 5 times in total.

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neskerdoo
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby neskerdoo » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:56 pm

these two schools are both very alike and very different
Last edited by neskerdoo on Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ohioboy115
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby Ohioboy115 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:01 pm

I grew up 40 minutes from Ann Arbor so maybe I'm a little biased, but I LOVE the area(I decided not to apply because I've lived 9 hours away for undergrad and I feel like all of a sudden being 40 minutes from home would be a step backward). Its one of the most up and coming and trendy areas in the country, and is haven for young professionals. My little brother goes to Yale, and from what I can tell Cornell is at the very bottom of the Ivy League in terms of status. This is all outside of the world renowned faculty at Michigan, and the fact that they can place people in jobs anywhere in the country.

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lazyewok
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby lazyewok » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:10 am

I had to make the same choice. For really no reason I chose Mich...not sad about it :)

awesomepossum
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:17 am

I was making a similar decision and I'll give you what information I had. I was a grad student at Cornell while looking at law schools.

I talked to a friend who had attended Cornell while I was in grad school and had since graduated and was working at a very nice NYC firm.

She said that given the choice again, she would have chosen Michigan. The reason was simply that the number of programs and course offerings available at the smaller law school was a little disappointing all things considered. Obviously a school with a little more than 1/3rd the number of students can't be expected to have the same number of available offerings. Additionally she found that the faculty/student ratio was kind of overblown since a lot of faculty weren't actively teaching courses (but then again, faculty at all law schools occasionally go on sabbatical, do research etc etc).

------

I was talking to some friends at a 'Cornell folks in Ann Arbor' type reunion and we talked about how Ithaca is kind of similar to Ann Arbor except much smaller. I have to say though that when I was in Ithaca, I really enjoyed it and never felt like I was deprived of anything for being there. The only inconvenience was the tiny airport that had flights that cost a ridiculous amount of money to go anywhere. The nearest other airport was Syracuse which is about 90 mins away.

Overall, if you're deadlocked as to a decision, I would recommend visiting both schools. I love Michigan but I know that there are lots of Cornell law students that love their school as well.

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joonbug
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby joonbug » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:02 am

Depends on what you want in life. In terms of campus and school-bondingness, both are similar.

But if one were to gauge each school purely on the cool-o-meter, Cornell triumphs in the most obvious way possible.

awesomepossum
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:06 am

joonbug wrote:Depends on what you want in life. In terms of campus and school-bondingness, both are similar.


I think I actually like the actual campus of Cornell University better although the law school buildings at Michigan are much more impressive. For some reason there's something very artificial about the Cornell law school buildings.

School-bondingness..... Cornell overall as a university unfortunately has very little school spirit. I can't say about the law school though.

Michigan has an insane amount of school spirit both in the university and the law school.

joonbug wrote:But if one were to gauge each school purely on the cool-o-meter, Cornell triumphs in the most obvious way possible.


this could be true..... it could be a little bit colder in Ithaca. ZING! :P

huckabees
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby huckabees » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:51 pm

Cornell's BigLaw placement is very good, so I doubt which school you choose would make a difference if that is your future career.

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joonbug
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby joonbug » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:17 pm

While Mich has PkSebben, Cornell has all the cool Tlsers.

And if we know that you've been to TLS, we'll hook you up with sweet, sweet outlines and prof scoops.
Therefore, your chance of doing well will be significantly better in Cornell.

Be the judge.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:37 pm

Michigan is in Michigan. Bleck.

From Cornell you can easily do weekend trips to New York, Boston, DC, and Philadelphia.

From Michigan you can do weekend trips to Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Indianapolis.

Hm. Hmmmmm.

markymark
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby markymark » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:53 pm

Michigan is a superior law school and Ann Arbor is a superior town.

hoosier1508
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby hoosier1508 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:15 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:Michigan is in Michigan. Bleck.

From Cornell you can easily do weekend trips to New York, Boston, DC, and Philadelphia.

From Michigan you can do weekend trips to Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Indianapolis.

Hm. Hmmmmm.

Don't hate on Indy. Have you been here?

I think you can apply your Gtown vs. Cornell argument to this case:

Other25BeforeYou wrote:Okay, but lots of the time people want to go to law school to get a great legal education. Cornell's a better enough law school than Georgetown that it more than outweighs Ithaca's (supposed) lameness.

Many people would argue that Michigan is better enough that it outweighs Ithaca's proximity to supposed better cities.

JJim1919
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby JJim1919 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:22 pm

hoosier1508 wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:Michigan is in Michigan. Bleck.

From Cornell you can easily do weekend trips to New York, Boston, DC, and Philadelphia.

From Michigan you can do weekend trips to Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Indianapolis.

Hm. Hmmmmm.

Don't hate on Indy. Have you been here?

I think you can apply your Gtown vs. Cornell argument to this case:

Other25BeforeYou wrote:Okay, but lots of the time people want to go to law school to get a great legal education. Cornell's a better enough law school than Georgetown that it more than outweighs Ithaca's (supposed) lameness.

Many people would argue that Michigan is better enough that it outweighs Ithaca's proximity to supposed better cities.


How is Mich so much better than Cornell? Better yes, SO much better I don't see. They're ranked 3 spots higher. Both schools place about 70% of grads into biglaw/clerkships.

hoosier1508
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby hoosier1508 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:28 pm

JJim1919 wrote:
hoosier1508 wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:Michigan is in Michigan. Bleck.

From Cornell you can easily do weekend trips to New York, Boston, DC, and Philadelphia.

From Michigan you can do weekend trips to Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Indianapolis.

Hm. Hmmmmm.

Don't hate on Indy. Have you been here?

I think you can apply your Gtown vs. Cornell argument to this case:

Other25BeforeYou wrote:Okay, but lots of the time people want to go to law school to get a great legal education. Cornell's a better enough law school than Georgetown that it more than outweighs Ithaca's (supposed) lameness.

Many people would argue that Michigan is better enough that it outweighs Ithaca's proximity to supposed better cities.


How is Mich so much better than Cornell? Better yes, SO much better I don't see. They're ranked 3 spots higher. Both schools place about 70% of grads into biglaw/clerkships.


where did i say it was "so" much better? I was just using her argument for Cornell over Georgetown and applying it to this debate. The difference between Cornell and Georgetown IMO is not greater than the difference between Michigan and Cornell.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:40 pm

hoosier1508 wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:Michigan is in Michigan. Bleck.

From Cornell you can easily do weekend trips to New York, Boston, DC, and Philadelphia.

From Michigan you can do weekend trips to Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and Indianapolis.

Hm. Hmmmmm.

Don't hate on Indy. Have you been here?

I think you can apply your Gtown vs. Cornell argument to this case:

Other25BeforeYou wrote:Okay, but lots of the time people want to go to law school to get a great legal education. Cornell's a better enough law school than Georgetown that it more than outweighs Ithaca's (supposed) lameness.

Many people would argue that Michigan is better enough that it outweighs Ithaca's proximity to supposed better cities.

Hah, well played sir.

-1 for me.

scarletmuse
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby scarletmuse » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:45 pm

As someone who went to grad school in Ithaca, I'd caution against relying on those weekend jaunts to NYC. Not only is it a 4.5/5 hour trip, the roads around Ithaca are windy, craptastic rural 2 lane highways. I LOVE that town, but it's a flaming pain in the ass to get in and out of. The same holds true for travel to D.C, Philly and Boston (although as a true NYer I wouldn't be caught dead trekking to Boston anyway :P ).

In Michigan, when I want to go somewhere I drive the 25 minutes (on major highways) to DTW, where I can catch cheap round trip flights to any major city.

awesomepossum
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:49 pm

I think it depends on what you want. The most obvious ways in which I prefer U of M law is as follows.

1) Bigger school. This means more programs and a more varied curriculum. One might believe that a smaller school is more intimate, but our class is also broken up into smaller sections which tend to be quite close. This one is kind of a 'to each their own' kind of thing.

2) The physical law school. You have to see it for yourself, but the Michigan law school is much more impressive. Cornell law on the inside looks really ... ikea for some reason.

3) School spirit.

4) U of M sports. We're certainly down right now, but Michigan sports is an institution. Even when we suck we're sucking on national TV. If you like hockey, Cornell is great. But the process of getting hockey tickets at Cornell is ridiculous.

5) Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor really is a bigger Ithaca. The two are quite similar, but there are definitely more things to do in AA than Ithaca.

6) For the card players out there. MGM >>> Turning Stone.

7) Bars. The bars around the law school are much better than the bars in collegetown. The bars in collegetown are CRAZY seedy (except Stella's I guess...but that's one crazy expensive bar) although the bars downtown are pretty good.

8 ) air transpo. DTW is remarkably nice. ITH is super expensive and VERY limited and SYR is 90 mins away.

9) Alumni network. There are more Michigan lawyers out there and the alums are fiercely loyal.

10) getting anywhere. I still have nightmares about Rt 79 out of Ithaca. I can't believe that there isn't an interstate closer to Ithaca.

The ways that I prefer Cornell.

1) The Cornell campus overall. In my opinion, the overall campus is prettier and better organized.

2) Parking. It's incredible, but parking in AA is WORSE than the not so great Ithaca.

3) Frat scene. The frat scene is nicely tucked away from the law school. At U of M it's across the street.

4) Proximity to NYC. ALTHOUGH it is nice that you can just take the train to Chicago from Ann Arbor. There's no rail out of Ithaca (apart from the coal trains)

5) Skiing. Greek peak isn't that great BUT it is only 1/2 an hour away.



Things I don't know about.

1) Profs. I don't really know about Cornell profs.

2) Hiring. My impression is that for law firms at least, it's kind of a push. Michigan does have one of the biggest OCI programs in the country, but we are also a bigger law school. This is the sort of thing you can look up on charts I guess.

fsohn
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Re: UMich vs. Cornell

Postby fsohn » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:05 pm

Cornell profs are great. Michael Dorf (however long he stays here) is a big deal in Constitutional law. Steve Shiffrin (who teaches 1Ls sometimes) is a well-respected First Amendment expert, and casebook author for Constiutional Law generally and for First Amendment law specifically. Summers and Hillman are legends in contract law, and co-authors of a pretty good casebook. Clermont edits the FRCP, and is also the author of a well-respected casebook. Henderson authored one of the top torts casebooks and is an authority on products liability... the list goes on.

However, like any school not named Harvard or Yale, Cornell is probably prone to professor-poaching. Like I indicated, I'll take a class with Dorf ASAP, because no one really knows how long he'll stick around. Kysar jumped to Yale, and Rachlinski (he teaches across the curriculum and focuses on quantitative law studies) was approached by Chicago. Basically, you'll get as good a faculty as you'll get anywhere not Harvard or Yale, IMHO.




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