Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

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Twit
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby Twit » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:37 am

minnesotamike wrote:Has anyone pulled the trigger? D-day is approaching.


Nope. OP, here's the deal: Do you want to start out $150k or more ahead AND will do you plan on the firm route for at least 3-4 years? If you do, go to CLS.

If you say:
  • It's just money.
  • LIPP/COAP will cover me if I'm working a low paying job.
  • At a firm job paying off $150k, I still have a ridiculously comfortably salary (about $7000 a month--double what I make now).

Any of the above mentalities tell you to go to YHS.

The only thing to watch you for (double check this) is that Stanford's LRAP is good, but it does not cover low-paying private sector jobs; Harvard and Yale do. Likewise, H and S require you to be working in the legal field; Y does not. You could go to Y, become a fire juggler, and get COAP--so long as you're employed by someone.

Scholarships give CLS and UChic the advantage over YHS when the student is going into private practice that is not covered by LRAP--that way he or she can pocket they money rather than use it to pay loans. Finally, don't listen to this BS that misconstrues YHS as the better financial choice for private practice; statistically, YHS do not offer better paying returns than CCN.

If money is your sole concern AND you're doing Big Law, go with CLS.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:30 am

Twit wrote:LIPP/COAP will cover me if I'm working a low paying job.


Just on this point, if this is your reason, make sure you are committed to PI (or whatever low-paying job) for the long-haul. Pretty much every repayment program requires you to be in a low-paying job for somewhere between 8-10 consecutive years before they'll fully forgive your loans (it's not straight line forgiveness either, so if you do PI for 2 years on a 10 year full-repayment schedule, you won't get 20% of your debt forgiven - more like 10-15%).

There are obviously people who really are dedicated to PI, and god bless them. But there are also people who think PI sounds like something they might want to do but decide at some point (either in law school or after 2-3 years of practice) that they need to make more money. If this is possible, taking into account everything that might change over 10 years (family, buying a house, etc.), the force for the LIPP/COAP argument is much weaker.

PMan99
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby PMan99 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:41 am

imchuckbass58 wrote:
Twit wrote:LIPP/COAP will cover me if I'm working a low paying job.


Just on this point, if this is your reason, make sure you are committed to PI (or whatever low-paying job) for the long-haul. Pretty much every repayment program requires you to be in a low-paying job for somewhere between 8-10 consecutive years before they'll fully forgive your loans (it's not straight line forgiveness either, so if you do PI for 2 years on a 10 year full-repayment schedule, you won't get 20% of your debt forgiven - more like 10-15%).

There are obviously people who really are dedicated to PI, and god bless them. But there are also people who think PI sounds like something they might want to do but decide at some point (either in law school or after 2-3 years of practice) that they need to make more money. If this is possible, taking into account everything that might change over 10 years (family, buying a house, etc.), the force for the LIPP/COAP argument is much weaker.


Pretty much, except for COAP and LIPP.

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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:56 am

PMan99 wrote:
Pretty much, except for COAP and LIPP.


To be clear, I'm not saying there's a minimum term requirement. Just saying that people assume they'll be totally covered if they work in PI, where in reality very few people work in PI for 10 years (even of those that do PI straight out), and repayment is often backloaded, rather than front-loaded. For COAP at least, this sounds like it's still true (http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/F ... iption.pdf):

CALCULATION OF COAP AWARDS
For each eligible graduate, the Program will impute a loan repayment schedule that will enable
the graduate to repay all covered loans in ten years from the time the graduate enters the
Program. For the first five years, the repayment amount will be based on a fifteen-year straight
line repayment of principal and interest at the loan repayment interest rate. For the second five
years, the repayment amount will be based on a five-year straight line repayment of remaining
principal and interest.

LIPP is also on a 10-year schedule, though it seems like they're straightline: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... arios.html

I admit though that I am in neither program, so I'm willing to be told I'm wrong.

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sunynp
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby sunynp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:37 am

Sometimes I think I am the only person on this forum who understands the value of $150,000. I will never understand turning down a full scholarship to Columbia unless you have family money, or an employer who will pay for you or, I guess, if you are a genius of law.

Maybe you guys are counting on making so much over your lifetime that $150,000 doesn't matter.

If you are going into public interest then not having debt is much better than having to be chained to a low-paying job to repay your loans.

RoyBatty
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby RoyBatty » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:36 pm

Amazed by the number of prospective law students who would turn down full or substantial scholarships for the affirmation of YH. 17 year old athletes with limited resources don't turn down full scholarships at Florida or Ohio State for the honor of playing at Alabama (based on current rank) or Notre Dame (based on historical reputation), because that would be stupid. And that's in a sphere where the entire enterprise is fanatically focused on who's "#1".

At this level, the putative extra "prestige" and exit options are not a rational basis to pass up the scholarship.

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Doritos
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby Doritos » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:26 pm

RoyBatty wrote:Amazed by the number of prospective law students who would turn down full or substantial scholarships for the affirmation of YH. 17 year old athletes with limited resources don't turn down full scholarships at Florida or Ohio State for the honor of playing at Alabama (based on current rank) or Notre Dame (based on historical reputation), because that would be stupid. And that's in a sphere where the entire enterprise is fanatically focused on who's "#1".

At this level, the putative extra "prestige" and exit options are not a rational basis to pass up the scholarship.


Can't pay yo billz wit prestige amirite?

justinp
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby justinp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:34 pm

RoyBatty wrote:Amazed by the number of prospective law students who would turn down full or substantial scholarships for the affirmation of YH. 17 year old athletes with limited resources don't turn down full scholarships at Florida or Ohio State for the honor of playing at Alabama (based on current rank) or Notre Dame (based on historical reputation), because that would be stupid. And that's in a sphere where the entire enterprise is fanatically focused on who's "#1".

At this level, the putative extra "prestige" and exit options are not a rational basis to pass up the scholarship.


I had the choice between Hamilton and HLS, and wound up choosing HLS (though in the interest of disclosure, my family is likely to be able to throw in some money, making the debt burden somewhat more manageable).

But I'll say here what I've said this in every other thread on this subject: it's a completely rational decision either way, that hinges entirely on subjective judgments about one's career goals and willingness to accept risk. A lot of the people who are in the position of having acceptances at H/Y and also a Hamilton/Rubenstein offer just objectively do have a legitimate shot--by no means a certain shot or anything like that, but a real chance with hard work and a bit of luck--at some completely crazy career paths (feeder clerkships, legal academia, various hard-to-land DOJ/agency/Hill jobs) that basically everyone I've talked to *including* current and former Hamilton fellows and other Columbia boosters say are *substantially* easier to get out of HY. Even if you just really want to clerk, HY give you a 2-3x advantage on a per capita basis compared to CC. If you want to work outside of the major legal markets, Harvard in particular might be a reasonable investment, since a Harvard degree will give you a good shot at the top local firms in almost any market, while CC have relatively (again-- relatively) little penetration outside of NY/DC/Cali/Chicago. In the city I grew up in and might want to return to, which is the fourth or fifth largest in a big state, there are quite a few HLS grads at the top firms, but many of them just straight up don't have any CC grads.

None of this makes it objectively the right decision to choose one way or another, but these are all legitimate reasons that might sway a risk-accepting person to choose HY over a scholly elsewhere. When you're 50, you won't have any LS debt, and you'll still have your degree. It's all a matter of whether you think you'd rather have more money and freedom in the 10 year span you'll be paying loans, or whether you'd prefer the higher career ceiling that comes with HY.

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hung jury
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby hung jury » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:03 pm

Twit wrote:
minnesotamike wrote:Has anyone pulled the trigger? D-day is approaching.




The only thing to watch you for (double check this) is that Stanford's LRAP is good, but it does not cover low-paying private sector jobs; Harvard and Yale do.



This is wrong. Stanford pays for low-income private sector jobs if the work is in the public interest. What counts as a private public interest firm is, I think, determined on a case by case basis but there is info on the website.

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sunynp
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby sunynp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:05 pm

justinp wrote:
RoyBatty wrote:Amazed by the number of prospective law students who would turn down full or substantial scholarships for the affirmation of YH. 17 year old athletes with limited resources don't turn down full scholarships at Florida or Ohio State for the honor of playing at Alabama (based on current rank) or Notre Dame (based on historical reputation), because that would be stupid. And that's in a sphere where the entire enterprise is fanatically focused on who's "#1".

At this level, the putative extra "prestige" and exit options are not a rational basis to pass up the scholarship.


I had the choice between Hamilton and HLS, and wound up choosing HLS (though in the interest of disclosure, my family is likely to be able to throw in some money, making the debt burden somewhat more manageable).

But I'll say here what I've said this in every other thread on this subject: it's a completely rational decision either way, that hinges entirely on subjective judgments about one's career goals and willingness to accept risk. A lot of the people who are in the position of having acceptances at H/Y and also a Hamilton/Rubenstein offer just objectively do have a legitimate shot--by no means a certain shot or anything like that, but a real chance with hard work and a bit of luck--at some completely crazy career paths (feeder clerkships, legal academia, various hard-to-land DOJ/agency/Hill jobs) that basically everyone I've talked to *including* current and former Hamilton fellows and other Columbia boosters say are *substantially* easier to get out of HY. Even if you just really want to clerk, HY give you a 2-3x advantage on a per capita basis compared to CC. If you want to work outside of the major legal markets, Harvard in particular might be a reasonable investment, since a Harvard degree will give you a good shot at the top local firms in almost any market, while CC have relatively (again-- relatively) little penetration outside of NY/DC/Cali/Chicago. In the city I grew up in and might want to return to, which is the fourth or fifth largest in a big state, there are quite a few HLS grads at the top firms, but many of them just straight up don't have any CC grads.

None of this makes it objectively the right decision to choose one way or another, but these are all legitimate reasons that might sway a risk-accepting person to choose HY over a scholly elsewhere. When you're 50, you won't have any LS debt, and you'll still have your degree. It's all a matter of whether you think you'd rather have more money and freedom in the 10 year span you'll be paying loans, or whether you'd prefer the higher career ceiling that comes with HY.


LOL

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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby justinp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:43 pm

sunynp wrote:
justinp wrote:I had the choice between Hamilton and HLS, and wound up choosing HLS (though in the interest of disclosure, my family is likely to be able to throw in some money, making the debt burden somewhat more manageable).

But I'll say here what I've said this in every other thread on this subject: it's a completely rational decision either way, that hinges entirely on subjective judgments about one's career goals and willingness to accept risk. A lot of the people who are in the position of having acceptances at H/Y and also a Hamilton/Rubenstein offer just objectively do have a legitimate shot--by no means a certain shot or anything like that, but a real chance with hard work and a bit of luck--at some completely crazy career paths (feeder clerkships, legal academia, various hard-to-land DOJ/agency/Hill jobs) that basically everyone I've talked to *including* current and former Hamilton fellows and other Columbia boosters say are *substantially* easier to get out of HY. Even if you just really want to clerk, HY give you a 2-3x advantage on a per capita basis compared to CC. If you want to work outside of the major legal markets, Harvard in particular might be a reasonable investment, since a Harvard degree will give you a good shot at the top local firms in almost any market, while CC have relatively (again-- relatively) little penetration outside of NY/DC/Cali/Chicago. In the city I grew up in and might want to return to, which is the fourth or fifth largest in a big state, there are quite a few HLS grads at the top firms, but many of them just straight up don't have any CC grads.

None of this makes it objectively the right decision to choose one way or another, but these are all legitimate reasons that might sway a risk-accepting person to choose HY over a scholly elsewhere. When you're 50, you won't have any LS debt, and you'll still have your degree. It's all a matter of whether you think you'd rather have more money and freedom in the 10 year span you'll be paying loans, or whether you'd prefer the higher career ceiling that comes with HY.


LOL


I mean, it could be that the folks I've talked to are lying to me. But this isn't just me being prestige obsessed and looking at the rankings or whatever... I actually had the same initial reaction as you did, and when I found out about the Hamilton I was dead set on Columbia. Then, I went and talked to a lot of folks in the legal industry, both people I knew through friends or family and a good number of cold calls, and all of them who worked outside of the context of NY biglaw said that a Harvard grad at any given percentile of the class would have an edge on a Columbia grad when it came to hiring for competitive positions, and that this was especially true in the higher end of the class. Maybe this isn't true. I'm not sure why even Hamilton fellows would tell me that if it wasn't, but sure. You think that it wouldn't be worth the difference, and given the choice you'd take the money. And that's fine!

I just don't understand this attitude of "THERE IS NO POSSIBLE REASON TO TAKE ON DEBT AT HARVARD OR YALE WHEN YOU COULD GO TO CC FOR FREE YOU ARE ALL DUMBASSES WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND MONEY" that you have going on. People have different priorities.

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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby EdgarWinter » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:09 pm

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Last edited by EdgarWinter on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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sunynp
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby sunynp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:14 pm

justinp wrote:
sunynp wrote:
justinp wrote:I had the choice between Hamilton and HLS, and wound up choosing HLS (though in the interest of disclosure, my family is likely to be able to throw in some money, making the debt burden somewhat more manageable).

But I'll say here what I've said this in every other thread on this subject: it's a completely rational decision either way, that hinges entirely on subjective judgments about one's career goals and willingness to accept risk. A lot of the people who are in the position of having acceptances at H/Y and also a Hamilton/Rubenstein offer just objectively do have a legitimate shot--by no means a certain shot or anything like that, but a real chance with hard work and a bit of luck--at some completely crazy career paths (feeder clerkships, legal academia, various hard-to-land DOJ/agency/Hill jobs) that basically everyone I've talked to *including* current and former Hamilton fellows and other Columbia boosters say are *substantially* easier to get out of HY. Even if you just really want to clerk, HY give you a 2-3x advantage on a per capita basis compared to CC. If you want to work outside of the major legal markets, Harvard in particular might be a reasonable investment, since a Harvard degree will give you a good shot at the top local firms in almost any market, while CC have relatively (again-- relatively) little penetration outside of NY/DC/Cali/Chicago. In the city I grew up in and might want to return to, which is the fourth or fifth largest in a big state, there are quite a few HLS grads at the top firms, but many of them just straight up don't have any CC grads.

None of this makes it objectively the right decision to choose one way or another, but these are all legitimate reasons that might sway a risk-accepting person to choose HY over a scholly elsewhere. When you're 50, you won't have any LS debt, and you'll still have your degree. It's all a matter of whether you think you'd rather have more money and freedom in the 10 year span you'll be paying loans, or whether you'd prefer the higher career ceiling that comes with HY.


LOL


I mean, it could be that the folks I've talked to are lying to me. But this isn't just me being prestige obsessed and looking at the rankings or whatever... I actually had the same initial reaction as you did, and when I found out about the Hamilton I was dead set on Columbia. Then, I went and talked to a lot of folks in the legal industry, both people I knew through friends or family and a good number of cold calls, and all of them who worked outside of the context of NY biglaw said that a Harvard grad at any given percentile of the class would have an edge on a Columbia grad when it came to hiring for competitive positions, and that this was especially true in the higher end of the class. Maybe this isn't true. I'm not sure why even Hamilton fellows would tell me that if it wasn't, but sure. You think that it wouldn't be worth the difference, and given the choice you'd take the money. And that's fine!

I just don't understand this attitude of "THERE IS NO POSSIBLE REASON TO TAKE ON DEBT AT HARVARD OR YALE WHEN YOU COULD GO TO CC FOR FREE YOU ARE ALL DUMBASSES WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND MONEY" that you have going on. People have different priorities.


Ah sorry, I never meant to imply that people were dumbasses. I know that was snarky, and I was actually going to just delete it because it added nothing to the conversation.

I personally don't think the debt would ever be worth it, in any circumstance. I like the freedom of not owing money. I guess to me, when I see what people have to go through to repay debt and how long it takes, the money in hand seems like a no-brainer. Also this: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=183509

I am also jaded by people who were Lathamed and other people who were laid off or lost jobs. (See Dewey - what are those people going to do with their loans.) I know they struggle with repaying their massive loans. Tying that debt around your neck is a huge weight on your future. I think LRAP programs are great, but why put yourself in a position to need them? Having to repay debt makes a huge impact on your life. I don't think that many people completely understand that impact here because so many people take on 6 figures of debt, but they haven't had to repay it yet.

I think that looking forward to your 50s is simply too far to look ahead if you have to spend ten years repaying your loans now. I hope that by your 50s your career and your life has developed way past the point whether you care if you went to Columbia on a scholarship over Harvard.

Note: When asking for advice, always be careful to make sure people understand how much debt you might be facing if you go to Yale. I know that partners I have talked to have little idea how much school costs or how much debt it will take to get a degree. Most of them are clueless about how much their Alma Mater charges now.

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kwais
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby kwais » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:30 pm

I can't say what I would do here, but I always find it interesting that those who think this issue is close, speak with balance, nuance and optimism (usually). Those who think it's a no-brainer for CCN with $$$ seem to have chips on their shoulders and often resort to calling the other side prestige whores who have no idea what $ means. I think it is risky, scary and all that to consider H or Y in this position, but I also suspect that many of the people who do choose that route are more adventurous, confident and long-viewed.

tl:dr I'd rather have a drink with those who think this is a close issue.

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soj
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby soj » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:04 pm

LRAP is a poor reason to justify HYS unless you're one of the rare people who are set on government (for your sake, I hope not) or PI straight out of law school and will actually follow through with it in law school even when OCI tempts you with peer pressure, money, and job security. Most people will go to biglaw first, and by the time they transition into PI or government after 2-5 years in biglaw, their LRAP eligibility will be tiny. Ask schools how much they expect you to pay each year while you're making biglaw salary (keep in mind lock-step raises and bonuses) for the purposes of LRAP eligibility calculations. For the LRAPs I've looked into, the expected contributions are nothing like the kind of payments you'd be actually making under a 5- or 10-year repayment plan. If you worked in biglaw for a few years, even if you transition into PI and work there for the rest of your life, LRAP won't repay all of your debt unless you were living extremely frugally and making aggressive repayments while you were in biglaw.

Another mistake 0Ls make is assuming getting biglaw will allow them to repay their debt comfortably. In most cases, yes, but what if you get laid off? Or biglaw just isn't right for you and you burn out early? And you can't readily find a well-paying job to lateral into? All of this can happen regardless of the school you went to, but at least if you graduated from law school with little debt, you're not totally screwed.

There are valid reasons to choose HYS such as shooting for the most prestigious positions (not that CCN will shut you out of those, but that HYS might give you a better shot at them) or having a better shot at a well-paying job even at the very bottom of the class. The best reason I can think of (other than no grades, quality of life, and maybe prestige) is that at every given level of grades, interviewing skills, resume, luck, etc., HYS might give you slightly better employment options than CCN. This is especially true if you're in the bottom 10% at HYS but can masquerade as the bottom 25% thanks to the grading system. But the increased margin of safety from going to HYS is small enough that I don't think it justifies a $150K+interest difference in debt.

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emkay625
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby emkay625 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:27 pm

This is one of those questions where I think the answer I would give someone is not the same thing I would actually do if I was being honest with myself. I would say take the Hamilton, no doubt. 150K is a crap ton of money.

Simultaneously, deep down, I know if I had the chance to go to HYS, I would go and never look back.

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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby bernaldiaz » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:06 pm

emkay625 wrote:This is one of those questions where I think the answer I would give someone is not the same thing I would actually do if I was being honest with myself. I would say take the Hamilton, no doubt. 150K is a crap ton of money.

Simultaneously, deep down, I know if I had the chance to go to HYS, I would go and never look back.


I think I'd tell someone to take HYS, but in the end take the full ride at CCN (especially the Ruby). With the Ruby I'd graduate with probably 60K in the bank, whereas at Harvard I'd be probably 125k in debt. That's a huge difference. So while I think it would be great to go and pursue at HYS degree, the reality of it would probably steer me toward the money (although for me, Y would change everything. That would be an entirely different deabte).

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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby Twit » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:00 pm

Borg wrote:I laughed really hard at ALL of this. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D . That's how much I laughed.

Let's start with the notion that the OP is choosing between Harvard and a "lesser school." It sounds like the "lesser" options are NYU, UChicago, and Columbia. For free. Believe it or not, I think it's very difficult to call any of these truly "lesser" than Harvard. What exactly is the "what if" scenario? If you're in the top quarter of your class at Chicago, Columbia, or NYU where you went for free and get a clerkship with a federal appellate court, you're going to ask yourself "what if?" If you're working at Davis Polk after graduating from one of these places for free, you're going to sit and ask "well what if I went to Harvard?" That's pretty fucking stupid.

Now let's tackle the "intangibles." This poster apparently likes lunch enough to pay $200,000 for it. Take heart, OP, for NYU and Columbia both share facilities with the Princeton Club. Chicago shares with Penn. You won't dine at the Harvard club, no, but you'll dine at the Princeton Club or the Penn Club. After having gone to law school for free at an extremely prestigious institution with a vast and excellent alumni network. If lunch is what this is about, the choice is Harvard Club for 200k or Princeton/Penn Club for free.

The "tangible" benefits are even more laughable. Let's take a look at just the incomplete Wikipedia sample of the alumni networks for these "lesser" schools:

Columbia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Co ... ool_alumni
Chicago - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University ... ool#Alumni
NYU - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NY ... ool_people

It does not appear to me that you are getting yourself into bad company by attending any of these places.

I turned down a major scholarship for my school, but if I were looking at a full ride to CCN I would have decided differently. I think that the more salient question you would be asking yourself down the line would be "what if I didn't spend $200,000 for absolutely no good reason?" Or "what if I could walk away from my firm job at any given time in fantastic financial shape to go do something else?" Those seem to be the kinds of questions that keep people up at night.

I do not regret my decision, but I most definitely would if one of CCN had put serious money on the table. Seeing things from the inside, I know that the gap just isn't all that wide once you hit a certain level. I promise you it's a better idea to go with the scholarship. Your doubts will disappear after you've been in law school for a while and see how your summer firm class shakes out.


Borg, you're pretty much spot on, but there are some intangibles that are legitimate considerations beyond prestige: eg, my wife and I want to live in San Francisco in the long run, she has 0 desire to live in NYC or Chicago, and I am impartial to the schools. I'm choosing Stanford with some financial aid--my wife's job covers our COL and it seems to make the most sense for us and our long-term plans.

Does it suck that we're turning down full rides to take out $100k+ in loans? Damn right. I'm just saying that prestige vs. money isn't the only debate here.

Now, granted that most 0L's probably aren't married and are just weighing prestige vs. money...well, then, listen to Borg.
Last edited by Twit on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby TatteredDignity » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:18 pm

bernaldiaz wrote: (although for me, Y would change everything. That would be an entirely different deabte).


Why is this sentiment so common on TLS? Is it really Y>>>S/H?

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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby PMan99 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:35 am

TatteredDignity wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote: (although for me, Y would change everything. That would be an entirely different deabte).


Why is this sentiment so common on TLS? Is it really Y>>>S/H?


Well on TLS it's more like S > Chi > Y >>> H but.... yea. Yale has some decent advantages over H/S.

Mostly insane clerkship placement and the ability to start down an academic path early on. Side benefit is easier grading system than H/S, two schools which already have an easier grading system than the rest of the T14.

That being said I think if debt concerns someone enough to not take H/S they probably shouldn't take Y either.

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Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:39 am

PMan99 wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote: (although for me, Y would change everything. That would be an entirely different deabte).


Why is this sentiment so common on TLS? Is it really Y>>>S/H?


Well on TLS it's more like S > Chi > Y >>> H but.... yea. Yale has some decent advantages over H/S.

Mostly insane clerkship placement and the ability to start down an academic path early on. Side benefit is easier grading system than H/S, two schools which already have an easier grading system than the rest of the T14.

That being said I think if debt concerns someone enough to not take H/S they probably shouldn't take Y either.


wat?

PMan99
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:21 pm

Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby PMan99 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:39 am

bernaldiaz wrote:
PMan99 wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote: (although for me, Y would change everything. That would be an entirely different deabte).


Why is this sentiment so common on TLS? Is it really Y>>>S/H?


Well on TLS it's more like S > Chi > Y >>> H but.... yea. Yale has some decent advantages over H/S.

Mostly insane clerkship placement and the ability to start down an academic path early on. Side benefit is easier grading system than H/S, two schools which already have an easier grading system than the rest of the T14.

That being said I think if debt concerns someone enough to not take H/S they probably shouldn't take Y either.


wat?


Joking about the number of Stanford and Chicago trolls on here

JasonR
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:09 am

Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby JasonR » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:23 am

TatteredDignity wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote: (although for me, Y would change everything. That would be an entirely different deabte).


Why is this sentiment so common on TLS? Is it really Y>>>S/H?


It's not just TLS. Y utterly crushes H/S in cross-admit yield.

Twit
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:53 pm

Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby Twit » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:39 am

PMan99 wrote:
PMan99 wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
Why is this sentiment so common on TLS? Is it really Y>>>S/H?


Well on TLS it's more like S > Chi > Y >>> H but.... yea. Yale has some decent advantages over H/S.

Mostly insane clerkship placement and the ability to start down an academic path early on. Side benefit is easier grading system than H/S, two schools which already have an easier grading system than the rest of the T14.

That being said I think if debt concerns someone enough to not take H/S they probably shouldn't take Y either.


Joking about the number of Stanford and Chicago trolls on here

S and Chi have to troll harder because the whole forum is a hoard of H/Y trolls. ;-)

Also, USNWR.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Hamilton at Columbia vs. Yale/Harvard

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:54 am

kwais wrote:I can't say what I would do here, but I always find it interesting that those who think this issue is close, speak with balance, nuance and optimism (usually). Those who think it's a no-brainer for CCN with $$$ seem to have chips on their shoulders and often resort to calling the other side prestige whores who have no idea what $ means. I think it is risky, scary and all that to consider H or Y in this position, but I also suspect that many of the people who do choose that route are more adventurous, confident and long-viewed.

tl:dr I'd rather have a drink with those who think this is a close issue.

Lol




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