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Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:23 am
by underdawg
nipplehead wrote:anyways, regardless, i think what UD is trying to say is this: on these boards, and thus perhaps in general, it seems a lot of people say, in response to H vs S, "go to Harvard, it's Harvard. duh." well, they're equally ranked, they have equal opportunities, etc. the only reason these people are recommending that course of action is because they want the extra prestige, which is completely silly. choose a substantial reason for the school, not the perceived lay prestige.

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:25 am
by nipplehead
^ i think you already said that like 8 times but i wanted to just hammer it home one last time

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:25 am
by underdawg
underdawg wrote:
nipplehead wrote:anyways, regardless, i think what UD is trying to say is this: on these boards, and thus perhaps in general, it seems a lot of people say, in response to H vs S, "go to Harvard, it's Harvard. duh." well, they're equally ranked, they have equal opportunities, etc. the only reason these people are recommending that course of action is because they want the extra prestige, which is completely silly. choose a substantial reason for the school, not the perceived lay prestige.

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell.

Let's go for the gold. Maybe they understand you better than me.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:26 am
by boston101
Well you are posting in her thread. But, thats really besides the points.

I didnt say necessarily legal world. Harvard opens economic, social, emotional (hey, if you need that self-esteem boost, you do you) doors.

For me this isnt personal. I would go to neither YLS or SLS solely based on their locations.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:29 am
by boston101
nipplehead wrote:
boston101 wrote:
nipplehead wrote:
boston101 wrote:About the UVA example- UVA people dont impress lay people, but they might impress those somewhat in the know and they probably like that. Most UVA people (and those outside the T3) didnt have the chance to decide between their school and Harvard. For all we know, they would have chosen Harvard. Actually, I know of a few UVA people waiting on the HLS waitlist./quote]

but a lot of UVA people turned down Columbia for UVA, and Columbia has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more lay prestige than Virginia.

in fairness, Harvard was my #1 choice going into this cycle, and i was WLed by them. but if i got off the WL, i'd stay with UVA. it impressed me considerably more, despite its lack of name recognition.



and alot of CLS people got into UVA. So, we'd really have to look at numbers to see how that worked.


that doesn't really matter, though. if we're talking about UVA students that currently attend UVA, the number of students at CLS who got into UVA is meaningless. what matters is how many UVA students turned down CLS, a far more prestigious school, for UVA.

anyways, regardless, i think what UD is trying to say is this: on these boards, and thus perhaps in general, it seems a lot of people say, in response to H vs S, "go to Harvard, it's Harvard. duh." well, they're equally ranked, they have equal opportunities, etc. the only reason these people are recommending that course of action is because they want the extra prestige, which is completely silly. choose a substantial reason for the school, not the perceived lay prestige.



I see what youre saying. I like that its less hostile then "prestige whore." But, I think for some people its just so hard a decision they need SOMETHING to push one option over the edge. Alot of people face the same dilemma when it comes to NYU v.CLS. Theyre so similar and offer amazing opportunities. If youre not interested in PI (where NYU is frontrunner) or international (where CLS is the frontrunner), its almost impossible to make a decision.

I was just trying to illustrate that if you look at the number of people that chose CLS over UVA v. UVA over CLS and found that the former was larger youd know that even on that level name recognition is playing a role for many. I dont know, maybe Im not making sense. Im so tired my vision is blurry.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:31 am
by Haribo
Harvard will also give you more international opportunities (legal or non) just from the name. If you're interested in working internationally, lay prestige is important.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:33 am
by The_Wall
underdawg is right.

On the Harvard alumni thing, though, eighteen Justices of the Supreme Court to two, including seven of the Roberts Court (guess where he went). So it depends on one's goals. BigLaw, you can't go wrong either way. But if you want BigBench, it's no contest.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:34 am
by nipplehead
malena wrote:Harvard will also give you more international opportunities (legal or non) just from the name. If you're interested in working internationally, lay prestige is important.


this is really the only reason i can see for taking Harvard for its name alone. still, i wonder if Stanford's name might carry more weight in the Japan/China/etc region. maybe not.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:36 am
by boston101
nipplehead wrote:
malena wrote:Harvard will also give you more international opportunities (legal or non) just from the name. If you're interested in working internationally, lay prestige is important.


this is really the only reason i can see for taking Harvard for its name alone. still, i wonder if Stanford's name might carry more weight in the Japan/China/etc region. maybe not.


From what Ive heard Harvard carries the most weight in Asia and I know it does in Latin America. Although my Korean students do make sure to point out that YLS is ranked higher than HLS (theyre between 12-17). Still, they all want to go to Harvard for UG and LS.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:39 am
by nipplehead
boston101 wrote:
nipplehead wrote:
malena wrote:Harvard will also give you more international opportunities (legal or non) just from the name. If you're interested in working internationally, lay prestige is important.


this is really the only reason i can see for taking Harvard for its name alone. still, i wonder if Stanford's name might carry more weight in the Japan/China/etc region. maybe not.


From what Ive heard Harvard carries the most weight in Asia and I know it does in Latin America. Although my Korean students do make sure to point out that YLS is ranked higher than HLS (theyre between 12-17). Still, they all want to go to Harvard for UG and LS.


oh. i just thought maybe because of Stanford being in California, and more specifically the Bay Area, both huge hubs for Asian-American business, that it might have more pull. guess not.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:42 am
by boston101
nipplehead wrote:
boston101 wrote:
nipplehead wrote:
malena wrote:Harvard will also give you more international opportunities (legal or non) just from the name. If you're interested in working internationally, lay prestige is important.


this is really the only reason i can see for taking Harvard for its name alone. still, i wonder if Stanford's name might carry more weight in the Japan/China/etc region. maybe not.


From what Ive heard Harvard carries the most weight in Asia and I know it does in Latin America. Although my Korean students do make sure to point out that YLS is ranked higher than HLS (theyre between 12-17). Still, they all want to go to Harvard for UG and LS.


oh. i just thought maybe because of Stanford being in California, and more specifically the Bay Area, both huge hubs for Asian-American business, that it might have more pull. guess not.


Makes sense. But, from all accounts Ive heard, its Harvard or bust for the international community.
What I dont get is how its seen as so prestigous and selective yet if you have half a brain people will ask "So why didnt you go to Harvard?" And, if you didnt get in, then youre automatically "not that smart." Its hilarious.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:46 am
by underdawg
See how we've made progress from the "Take Harvard cause it's Harvard. Duh!" philosophy?

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:49 am
by boston101
underdawg wrote:See how we've made progress from the "Take Harvard cause it's Harvard. Duh!" philosophy?


Are you going to become psycho TTT-LS when it comes to Harvard and prestige? Like next year are you only going to comment on these types of threads and FREAK THE F-OUT on all the newbies! That would be pretty funny.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:50 am
by underdawg
boston101 wrote:
underdawg wrote:See how we've made progress from the "Take Harvard cause it's Harvard. Duh!" philosophy?


Are you going to become psycho TTT-LS when it comes to Harvard and prestige? Like next year are you only going to comment on these types of threads and FREAK THE F-OUT on all the newbies! That would be pretty funny.

You are making me out to be some kind of monster!

I just wanted you to go to my school, that's what all the CLS-NYU bitching was about. :?

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:53 am
by boston101
underdawg wrote:
boston101 wrote:
underdawg wrote:See how we've made progress from the "Take Harvard cause it's Harvard. Duh!" philosophy?


Are you going to become psycho TTT-LS when it comes to Harvard and prestige? Like next year are you only going to comment on these types of threads and FREAK THE F-OUT on all the newbies! That would be pretty funny.

You are making me out to be some kind of monster!

I just wanted you to go to my school, that's what all the CLS-NYU bitching was about. :?


yeah, yeah.

I didnt say TTTLS is a monster, hes just pyscho and feels like he needs to school the new people on "NO PREP!! NO PREP!! YOURE SCREWING YOURSELF! NO PREP!" Its so funny.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:55 am
by underdawg
whatever

i just realized how much i hate talking seriously about law schools...no more!

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:11 am
by xeoh85
The whole argument for better name recognition at this level runs afoul of a major logical flaw -- If you need the "bump" from Harvard's slight advantage in name recognition among the lay persons of the world, then you are probably not the type of person who is going to be on the high end of the alumni base of either of these two amazing schools. Thus, any basis for judging the schools on things such as "how many supreme court justices X school has" is a moot point.

But if you are a winner, then your choice between Harvard and Stanford will not matter. You will have ample opportunities from either school, limited only by your own actions.

Pick the school that you feel will allow you to intellectually grow and be your best. Pick the school that will allow you to enjoy your legal education the most. That, in the long run, will likely have a greater effect on your future success than any miniscule difference in name recognition ever could.

-X

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:14 am
by underdawg
I feel that if I had tried to phrase what I said in some sort of diplomatic manner, more people would agree with me. :?

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:26 am
by boston101
Ecu, which did you choose?

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:02 am
by Ecureuil
I think I still need to let it roll around in my head a bit, but after talking to a LOT of people about it, I'm currently thinking Stanford.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:19 pm
by Gators08
Ecureuil wrote:I think I still need to let it roll around in my head a bit, but after talking to a LOT of people about it, I'm currently thinking Stanford.


Why? It's not Harvard. :lol:

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:20 pm
by EmmyD
Harvard State University?

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:53 pm
by xeoh85
You might find Vault's rankings based purely off of employer surveys useful...
http://www.vault.com/lawschool/top25/index.jsp.
_________________________________________________________
1 - Stanford University Law School
2 - University of Michigan - Ann Arbor Law School
3 - New York University School of Law
4 - University of Virginia School of Law
5 - University of Chicago Law School
6 - Harvard Law School
7 - Columbia Law School
8 - University of California, Berkeley - Boalt Hall School of Law
9 - Northwestern University School of Law
10 - Yale Law School
11 - Vanderbilt University Law School
12 - Duke University Law School
13 - University of Pennsylvania Law School
14 - Indiana University School of Law - Bloomington
_________________________________________________________

-X

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:54 pm
by EmmyD
xeoh85 wrote:You might find Vault's rankings based purely off of employer surveys useful...
http://www.vault.com/lawschool/top25/index.jsp.
_________________________________________________________
1 - Stanford University Law School
2 - University of Michigan - Ann Arbor Law School
3 - New York University School of Law
4 - University of Virginia School of Law
5 - University of Chicago Law School
6 - Harvard Law School
7 - Columbia Law School
8 - University of California, Berkeley - Boalt Hall School of Law
9 - Northwestern University School of Law
10 - Yale Law School
11 - Vanderbilt University Law School
12 - Duke University Law School
13 - University of Pennsylvania Law School
14 - Indiana University School of Law - Bloomington
_________________________________________________________

-X


Even as a person going to the second best school on that last, I just don't buy that ranking.

Re: Harvard Law v. Stanford Law

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:40 pm
by tls5
EmmyD wrote:
xeoh85 wrote:You might find Vault's rankings based purely off of employer surveys useful...
http://www.vault.com/lawschool/top25/index.jsp.
_________________________________________________________
1 - Stanford University Law School
2 - University of Michigan - Ann Arbor Law School
3 - New York University School of Law
4 - University of Virginia School of Law
5 - University of Chicago Law School
6 - Harvard Law School
7 - Columbia Law School
8 - University of California, Berkeley - Boalt Hall School of Law
9 - Northwestern University School of Law
10 - Yale Law School
11 - Vanderbilt University Law School
12 - Duke University Law School
13 - University of Pennsylvania Law School
14 - Indiana University School of Law - Bloomington
_________________________________________________________

-X


Even as a person going to the second best school on that last, I just don't buy that ranking.


I think it said that the survey was based on which schools employers thought prepared their students best for work as an attorney. Fortunately for some and unfortunately for others, I bet the same people who responded to the survey would, everything else being equal, still hire a Harvard grad over a UVA grad. Good preparation does not necessarily translate into career opportunities.