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publicservant101
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Postby publicservant101 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:18 am

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Last edited by publicservant101 on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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worldtraveler
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:24 am

What do you want to do when you get done? UCLA is the obvious choice that would open up more opportunities upon graduation, but that doesn't matter if they aren't the opportunities that you want. I would say go with UCLA, but it does sound like you have a pretty awesome scholarship at Loyola.

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Mattalones
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby Mattalones » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:39 am

If you are going for public interest, I would for sure go to Loyola. 50-60L/yr is good money if you have no debt. You will probably be making that after law school from either schools. If you go to UCLA, you will have to pay $1,000/mo in loan payments. Even if UCLA has a load repayment assistance program, they will only pay your minimum payments, which won't even pay for the interest and your total loan debt will grow until you make enough $ for UCLA to stop paying your loans. At that time you will have monthly loan payment that are even higher than $1,000. No, going to UCLA seems like it would cause you a quarter life time of financial stress.

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ari20dal7
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby ari20dal7 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:57 am

Well, how sold on PI are you? What kind of PI do you want to do?

UCLA will open some doors that Loyola will not in this regard. UCLA isn't Harvard, but it's one of the great universities in the largest state in the Union. State and federal opportunities will be open in PI from there. Loyola is a good school, but isn't going to offer the same cachet.

If you want prestigious PI, then go to UCLA. If you just want to get down in the trenches and help people.....I'd still go to UCLA, but I totally see why you'd go to Loyola. I remember posting on your thread before, and I think all of my arguments there still apply. If you ever want to do anything other than PI, UCLA is just going to kill Loyola.....so I guess the question is commitment.

Dasan1
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby Dasan1 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:37 pm

UCLA

francobobfranco
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby francobobfranco » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:47 pm

Are there any requirements to keep your scholarship? UCLA is the absolute no-brainer in this situation regardless.

lahopeful
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby lahopeful » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:43 pm

Congrats on getting in!! Like the other comments, I think it really depends on what you want to do with your degree. A full ride is awesome and it will be much easier to be at the top of your class. But UCLA does open a lot more doors, depending on what you want to do.

Question: When/How did you find out about your acceptance? were you wait listed?

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Herbellis
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby Herbellis » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:09 pm

I don't think UCLA is the obvious choice at all. You're telling me that you stand a better chance of top job prospects graduating at the bottom half of your class at UCLA, than graduating in the top 10-20% at Loyola? I doubt that. You have to think also about the 90k+ in debt you'll have/have not, when you graduate. If it were Southwestern, sure, I would probably go with UCLA, but it's not. It's Loyola. Good luck!

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sjk
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby sjk » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:13 pm

Congrats Publicservant!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think if I were in your position I would take the Loyola full ride. UCLA is a GREAT school but Loyola is MORE than decent, and a free ride is killer.

If it was a partial Loyola scholarship I would probably take UCLA. But since its not, I would take Loyola.

Anyway, follow your gut instinct!

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20160810
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby 20160810 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:50 pm

Dasan1 wrote:UCLA

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GOB
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby GOB » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:28 pm

Well, let's put it this way... how much is the extra prestige at UCLA worth to you? That is to say, is it worth $150,000 or so. Considering that your annual salary will only be a third of that if you go into PI work, I think you'd be crazy to turn it down. It's just too much money.

If you need reasons, consider the following:

First of all, if, as you said, your heart is set on Loyola, then why go anywhere else? Especially when they're throwing that much money at you.

Additionally, UCLA's advantage really only applies if you can make it into the top 1/3 of the class there. While it certainly is possible to do after being admitted from the waitlist (as I am hoping to do if Davis accepts me), realistically it's unlikely that you'll do that well against other applicants who have better numbers. While GPA and LSATs aren't a perfect measure for success in law school, there is a reason why schools use them as the primary factor in the admissions process.

It's also not like Loyola won't offer you any opportunities. You'll have plenty of good opportunities coming from the school.
ari20dal7 wrote:Well, how sold on PI are you? What kind of PI do you want to do?

UCLA will open some doors that Loyola will not in this regard. UCLA isn't Harvard, but it's one of the great universities in the largest state in the Union. State and federal opportunities will be open in PI from there. Loyola is a good school, but isn't going to offer the same cachet...
I'm not sure what ari is implying, but tier 2 grads definitely have opportunities to attain prestigious PI positions. An example that I know of because I want to work as a prosector when I graduate is that the US Attorneys for the Southern and Central Divisions of California (San Diego and LA respectively) are both graduates of USD... granted it's not Loyola and it might not be what you had in mind when you said PI, but I think it demostrates the point.

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ari20dal7
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby ari20dal7 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:36 pm

I'm not sure what ari is implying, but tier 2 grads definitely have opportunities to attain prestigious PI positions. An example that I know of because I want to work as a prosector when I graduate is that the US Attorneys for the Southern and Central Divisions of California (San Diego and LA respectively) are both graduates of USD... granted it's not Loyola and it might not be what you had in mind when you said PI, but I think it demostrates the point.



True story, but you'd have a better shot at those positions from UCLA. Now, if you're comparing top 10% at Loyola to bottom third at UCLA, maybe you've got a point. And yes, I was thinking more of ACLU and that sort of stuff.

The point is that people who are trying to tell the OP that he'll place as well or basically as well from Loyola as from UCLA are not telling the whole story or the right story. Yes, if the OP does very well at Loyola, every door will be open to him (or at least most of them). Yes, if the OP sucks at UCLA, his options are limited. But the choice is better placement, more prestige and more debt (UCLA) vs. worse placement, less prestige, and much less debt (Loyola). Picking Loyola is defensible, but let's not pretend that there's no reason to go the other way.

I, of course, am headed to UCLA, and am thrilled to be doing that. I think the OP's got a good situation either way, but I would need to be very, very sold on PI and not needing prestige to pick Loyola over UCLA in any circumstance.

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publicservant101
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby publicservant101 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:38 pm

Thank you everyone for the insights! Ari, have you gone to any admitted student events yet? what have your impressions been? does it feel like a strong, close-knit community?

I definitely have some more thinking to do.

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ari20dal7
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby ari20dal7 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:46 pm

Thank you everyone for the insights! Ari, have you gone to any admitted student events yet? what have your impressions been? does it feel like a strong, close-knit community?

I definitely have some more thinking to do.


It felt like a nice community to me. I went to the first ASD in March and it was a very nice time. The students I met were terrific and I can't wait to get started. I didn't visit Loyola, so I can't compare it, but I liked UCLA for sure.

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senorsombrero
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby senorsombrero » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:57 pm

You have to take UCLA!

ms. snackmeister
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby ms. snackmeister » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:08 pm

I would add to consider how sure you are of where you want to practice. Loyola is a strong regional school, so if you want to stay in LA or Southern CA I would take Loyola. A full ride alone seems like an awesome deal, not to mention the other support you mentioned you would get. However if you are even slightly thinking of going outside the region, then go to UCLA. Good luck with your desicion.

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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby a_uberboy » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:21 pm

francobobfranco wrote:Are there any requirements to keep your scholarship?


this is the critical question here in my mind, as I recall the scholarship loyola LA offers are contingent on being in the top 65% of the class. Is yours the same or similar, or since you seem to have gotten the best scholarship they offer, did they make the criteria to renew easier?

If they did not, then you should consider the risk of losing that scholarship.

Also you need to look very hard at the programs for public interest student loan repayment both through UCLA, and the federal student loan forgiveness law:

Federal:
http://www.equaljusticeworks.org/resource/ccraa

http://advisor.brooklaw.edu/videos/loan ... ness08.wmv

UCLA:
http://www.law.ucla.edu/home/index.asp?page=1277

you have a high quality problem here and you can't really make a bad choice.

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GOB
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby GOB » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:36 pm

ms. snackmeister wrote:I would add to consider how sure you are of where you want to practice. Loyola is a strong regional school, so if you want to stay in LA or Southern CA I would take Loyola. A full ride alone seems like an awesome deal, not to mention the other support you mentioned you would get. However if you are even slightly thinking of going outside the region, then go to UCLA. Good luck with your desicion.
This is a reasonable point, though I would put it more like "only go to loyola if you are reasonably sure that you want stay in SoCal" (slighly unsure is, IMO, an unecessarily low standard). A Loyola degree will get you places there, but if you want to go elsewhere you'll likely need to pull off some sort of an in-house transfer or you'd need to have something special on your resume.

With that said, I would still pick Loyola if you are reasonably sure about staying in SoCal.

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bruinbear
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby bruinbear » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:13 pm

It seems that you're pretty sure on PI work and might even know where you want to practice. I'm not sure if anyone on this board is informed enough to know how well Loyola places specifically for what you want to do, especially since they seem to have a program designed for it that we're not familiar with. Do some leg work and find out about Loyola placement for competitive PI jobs, how much does the program help you? I think if the job placement disparity between Loyola and UCLA for what you want isnt that great then go to Loyola for sure. The prestige itself is not worth the debt in my opinion, but if UCLA gives you better opportunities then do UCLA. Also, if youre not 100% set on PI- go to UCLA.

niners49
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby niners49 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:24 pm

wow congrats!

i'll throw my hat in with those that say ucla. i think the prestige is worth the debt. not because of the biglaw opportunities, but because of the opportunities in general. if you come from ucla, you know that you will have doors opened for you in socal that you just would not see from loyola. ucla alums are as fiercely loyal and widespread as usc alums in socal. also, if you ever do decide to leave socal, ucla alums are all over california. as for the rest of the country, who hasn't heard of ucla? my main point: who knows if P.I. is something you want to do in 3 years, so leave as many opportunities open as possible.

*my coworker who is a usc law alum told me how a friend of his interviewed for a job in tennessee. the employer looked at her resume and said, "USC? You went to the University of Southern Carolina?"

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Mattalones
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby Mattalones » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:09 pm

I agree that UCLA is the tightest school ever! For sports, undergrad, medicine, law, grad school, partying, proximity to Hollywood, living across the street from Beverly Hills and still being able to walk to school, being 3 min from the playboy mansion, and generally being connected with at least 1/4 of LA's top working professionals. However, that is a lot of $$$ that Loyola is giving you. Just do a little calculation based on the pay scale (including promotions and raises) of your desired industry and see how long it would take you to pay off that debt from UCLA.

Also, consider this. I want to do PI also, but I don't ONLY want to do PI. I want to do the BigLaw thing to get a well rounded legal experience. If I were in your shoes (which I am most certainly not), I would go to UCLA because of the broader spectrum of options.

Another thing: the broader spectrum of options almost only applies to those options straight out of schools. I am sure that if you get a good job out of LS and do well, you will have many more options open to you than you did with no experience and a fresh J.D.

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OperaAttorney
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby OperaAttorney » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:49 pm

I don't know how much research you've done, but the choice seems awfully easy to me.

UCLA offers a more extensive curriculum. UCLA has the 'kinder' grading curve. UCLA is ranked higher--much higher. UCLA's ticket price is cheaper than Loyola's. A J.D. from UCLA is much more 'portable'.

But if PI is where your heart lies, then perhaps Loyola is where you should be.

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OperaAttorney
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby OperaAttorney » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:52 pm

While it certainly is possible to do after being admitted from the waitlist (as I am hoping to do if Davis accepts me), realistically it's unlikely that you'll do that well against other applicants who have better numbers.


Here we go again! You don't even know the OP.

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publicservant101
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby publicservant101 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:03 pm

I've done some deep thinking (and btw thank you all so much again for your insight and taking the time to give me advice, really), and i believe I am 95% decided on UCLA. The scholarship at Loyola (which requires i stay in the top 2/3s of the class, btw) is really fantastic and i HATE the thought of giving it up, but you guys brought up a good point - the specificity of the scholarship and the opportunities that would come from it are fantastic for a career solely devoted to PI, but I've never actually practiced PI -- what if I change my mind? I realized I may instead want to do a judicial clerkship, or even something as completely different as real estate law. I definitely want to keep public interest at the forefront of my goals, but i also don't want to be pigeon-holed or limited in any way in the future.

and as much as I hate to admit it, brand names do matter. a lot, apparently.


I think my biggest fear at this point is being a little fish in a big pond -- that's certainly how i felt during undergrad at UCLA. And loyola certainly feels like the friendliest pond right now .

That, and my fear of failure. failure with a $120,000 price tag!

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ari20dal7
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Re: UCLA OR LOYOLA FULL RIDE??????

Postby ari20dal7 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:24 pm

Congrats on 95% of a decision! I'll be looking forward to meeting you!




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