Chicago or NYU for Corporate Law Forum

[PhiloStudent]

This is interesting. Flaming me for "making categorical statements that just don't receive the support you purport to give them" but offering zero evidence to back this up other than your own assertion. Wouldn't that be an example of "making a categorical statement" with inadequate support. (And wouldn't it also be an ad hominem?

You really need to learn what an ad hominem is, among other things. By the way, in making that statement, you committed an ad hominem tu quoque. Google it.

Chicago was once the leader in faculty behind Yale. Now, however, Harvard is making a huge push for top faculty. You can't just say "Oh, Harvard just got Sunstein, so that might change things." Harvard also nabbed top faculty from other schools; an example of this is Mark Tushnet from GULC.

But what about NYU? They nabbed two CLS profs this year alone (Waldron, among others).

What about the metric by which Leiter does his rankings? Do professors actually take them seriously? As a person who has been following faculty movements for the last for years, I can tell you right now: No.

All of the professors I've spoken to regard the notion of grading a school's overall faculty as absurd; rather, they do it by specific program. Thus, if a student wanted to do academia, whereas you might say "Go to Yale, and if not, HSC [And you would put Stanford on par with Harvard, because you were admitted at the former and not at the latter." I, on the other hand, would say, "Ah! That's interesting. Well, what do you want to focus on in academia?" The person might say, "Jurisprudence," at which point I would respond, "Screw Chicago, Harvard, and Stanford. Go to NYU or Yale."

I encounter this nonsense all the time; students think that just because the overall school is good, this goodness percolates down into individual programs. That couldn't be further from the case.

You are pretty opinionated, but do you know what you're talking about? NYU looks good on paper, but Dworkin and Nagel are in mid-70s, Nagel is not a good teacher, and Dworkin is barely around. Waldron is very inaccessible. I have friends in the PhD program and the law school at NYU, this is common knowledge. Yale would be good if you were interested in nothing but legal positivism, but it's very narrow. Chicago now has Nussbaum, Leiter, and part of each year Green, so they are much broader than most most schools now for law & philosophy--definitely if you had any interest in history of philosophy, it would be the place to be.

[frazz]

Dang! You have a tendency to make categorical statements that just don't receive the support you purport to give them. I'm not saying you don't give support; but in general, you conclude a lot more from the evidence than what is permissible–on epistemological grounds–to conclude.

Well, I think this may be the most pretentious thing I've read on TLS in quite some time. How about just saying "you don't give enough evidence."

That doesn't really express what I was trying to say; the benefit of an intricate vocabulary is that it allows you to express complex ideas. I'm sorry if anything beyond a simple sentence is suddenly pretentious for you.

All right, after reading many out of her thousands of posts, I feel that the time has come to say something. Emmy D/AwesomeRossum is consistently the rudest and least helpful person on this board. If she is even 1/10 as horrendous in real life as she is behind her veil of anonymity on the internet, she would be one of the worst people I've ever met. A typical thread that involves EmmyD goes like this:

Post 1: Legitimate question/comment

EmmyD: Poorly defended but curt and snobby response to something someone said

Post 3: Quotes EmmyD, tries to fight back a little

EmmyD: Snide remark, says something childish that she believes makes her seem intelligent and above arguing with the unwashed masses (e.g. "I've played chess blindfolded!" or "I've played chess against two people at once blindfolded!"). These are comments that she has made, and that wouldn't impress anyone over the age of 13, but she somehow finds them useful.

Things devolve from there. I guess what I'm trying to say is that EmmyD is heavy on pretense but light on demonstrated intelligence. This level of pretense is unacceptable from anyone, but especially from someone who doesn't even have any truly significant achievement to back it up. Congrats on your Georgetown and Michigan education, Emmy, but thousands have done the same thing, and many thousands have gone to more impressive schools. I've never seen you say anything insightful or helpful, so stop being rude. Enjoy getting B's and B-'s at Michigan this fall.

[VaultBound]

How about this one...

I'm trying to decide between Chicago and NYU also. Can you stop posting this crap in here so that I don't have to waste the 10 seconds clicking through the thread to realize the new post is nothing more than bickering between people who need to get lives?

[frazz]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread, she's just done this a million times. In response to your question, I think that NYU and Chicago are going to put you on equal footing for corporate law. They both have a million partners at a million corp. firms, so I don't think that you need to worry about corporate placement because you will be just fine. The better questions to ask yourself are which school you like better and which neighborhood you like better. Have you visited? Read faculty bios, look around on the internet for blogs from law students, think about what you want from the faculty and curricula. You are going to have equal corporate opportunities coming from either.

[JusAbstinendi]

Frazz's last post was my own conclusion. The placement statistics, for the most part, seem to be parallel between the two schools. I had a better feel for Chicago's school and therefore chose it, even with slightly less scholarship money.

[VaultBound]

That's what I'm thinking. I guess I'll know after my Chicago visit Wednesday.

[EmmyD]

All right, after reading many out of her thousands of posts, I feel that the time has come to say something.

A typical thread that involves EmmyD goes like this:

I've never seen you say anything insightful or helpful, so stop being rude. Enjoy getting B's and B-'s at Michigan this fall.

This is just blatant hyperbole. Do you even know how to read?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... my#p538080

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... my#p564113

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... my#p563662

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... my#p574399

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... my#p679592

In reference to a post of mine in the last thread:

I love learning new things every day. Most do not shock me, this does.

Please, just sit in a corner and be quiet while you think about what you just said. My work here is done.

Edit: And those are just 5 random threads I pulled out.

[EmmyD]

Ironically, the thread in which I referenced my chess capabilities was not even a thread in which an argument occurred: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 98#p676698

It seemed like a friendly discussion in which I was trying to display my geekiness in order to justify my wanting to do another LSAT.

This wiseacre cannot even keep his facts straight.

[croptac]

Emma's cool!

[bwv812]

.

[VaultBound]

At this point you're all being pretentious idiots trying to "one-up" each other with words you looked up the thesaurus. This thread is now useless.

[lawhooligan]

so about chicago and nyu...

i picked chicago hands down, no questions. i also happened to get a bunch of money from there, but money not withstanding, i liked the place better. i also liked that the class size was much smaller- i think this helps in hiring in that a lot of firms want one or two kids from chicago. subtract the kids who are doing clerkships (which is a much higher % at chi than nyu), and to me it seems pretty damn easy to get a corporate job. i also found that chicago places better nationally (that is, has more on campus interviews which include west coast firms) which was important since i'm not sure where i want to be after school.

hope this is helpful (at the very least it's relevant)

[themuppet]

I've looked at some numbers for employment. They seem comparable. Heck, these schools seem comparable in a lot of objective ways, such as student/faculty ratio. Am I missing anything?

NYU
Pros:
-Quality of Living (somewhat subjective)
-Clinics
-NYC market foothold
-Superb tax program, including its LLM program

Chicago
Pros:
-Judicial clerkship placement
-Professorial aspirations
-Faculty generally ranked higher (debatable)
-Slightly higher peer and judge/lawyer prestige (according to USNWR)

What do you guys think? At this point, ignorant as I am, I see myself doing biglaw after graduation. I'm not sure which area, perhaps tax law, perhaps health law. The specialization could easily change, but I don't see myself entering public interest.

Wasn't this the original topic? Maybe we should talk about it...

[lawhooligan]

i tried!

[fearlesscowboy]

Hey, Emmy's certainly opinionated, but he/she has provided a lot of helpful information.

Rather than attacking her, why don't you try to address her arguments or evidence?