UNLV w/ full tuition - yes/no, and discussing stipend? Forum

[amynyan]

Got in at UNLV w/ full tuition one day after application. Numbers are 163/3.75. Really interested in living in Nevada because of low CoL, taxes, closeness to CA for quick & fun Unruh Act cases. Want to do a clerkship then PI. Sent an email about a stipend - clarified that I wanted to wait until I got through more of my pending applications but he insisted on calling next week anyway, says we can 'work something out at this stage'.

Alternatives are a wide variety of full ride T1/T2 schools from coast to coast (e.g. William & Mary, UC Davis, Mich State, Nebraska*, Idaho w/ $15,000 stipend), or Syracuse's JDInteractive. Still waiting for decisions from the T14 to T30.

Should I pick UNLV? If so, what should I say to the dean in our phone call?

* Seriously tempted to pick Nebraska @ full ride for the ice cube in hell's chance of getting a clerkship with the district judge who ran a blog, but that's beyond the scope of this post.

[cavalier1138]

Sounds like UNLV is a perfect fit for your long-term goals. If you want to work in NV, you shouldn't really be considering anywhere else. Tell the dean about your other scholarship offers (especially Idaho), and make it clear that you'd commit to UNLV if offered a living expenses stipend (assuming you're willing to make that commitment).

I wouldn't get too fixated on the federal clerkship though. First, it's not clear why you'd need it for your career goals. PI--especially local PI--doesn't really require a federal clerkship (and it may be looked at as a waste of time by some orgs). Second, getting a federal clerkship from UNLV is going to be a total crapshoot and require top-notch grades.

[amynyan]

Sounds like UNLV is a perfect fit for your long-term goals. If you want to work in NV, you shouldn't really be considering anywhere else. Tell the dean about your other scholarship offers (especially Idaho), and make it clear that you'd commit to UNLV if offered a living expenses stipend (assuming you're willing to make that commitment).

I wouldn't get too fixated on the federal clerkship though. First, it's not clear why you'd need it for your career goals. PI--especially local PI--doesn't really require a federal clerkship (and it may be looked at as a waste of time by some orgs). Second, getting a federal clerkship from UNLV is going to be a total crapshoot and require top-notch grades.

Well, I've really liked all the federal judges I've seen and sometimes litigated in front of. They all seem like intelligent, fun people and I'd like to get to know them and do work for them. To be honest, I really want to clerk for judge Tigar or magistrate judge Beeler in the ND Cal, or one of the cool 9th Circuit judges (too bad Koizinski went away). Maybe that's a stupid reason to want to do a clerkship, but I also hope to be a judge one day. Impossible with UNLV?

[nixy]

Clerking for Kozinski was probably about as far from a cool experience as you could have found (even leaving aside the creepy sexual harassment side).

As for becoming a judge out of UNLV - it’s possible, especially if you stay local (look up local judges and see where they went to school - there are often judges originally from local schools). There are just a million variables along the ways and the process is more about politics than where you went to school.

[cavalier1138]

Clerking for Kozinski was probably about as far from a cool experience as you could have found (even leaving aside the creepy sexual harassment side).

As for becoming a judge out of UNLV - it’s possible, especially if you stay local (look up local judges and see where they went to school - there are often judges originally from local schools). There are just a million variables along the ways and the process is more about politics than where you went to school.

All of this is correct. There's also a wide gulf between the process of becoming a state judge vs. a federal judge. I think they're both bad goals to have in mind when you haven't started law school, due to the unpredictable nature of getting selected/elected for those positions. But my guess is that a UNLV student would have a better shot at the state bench.

In terms of clerkships, I'd say that a 9th Circuit clerkship is all but impossible from UNLV, and a district clerkship in a competitive place like N.D. Cal. would be extremely difficult to land. I wouldn't go to any law school (except perhaps Yale) with a federal-clerkship-or-bust attitude, because the vast majority of students will never get one. It's also a year-long gig, not a permanent career (for most clerks). But you'd need to be at the absolute top of your class at UNLV to even have a fighting chance, and that's just not something you can predict.

[amynyan]

Clerking for Kozinski was probably about as far from a cool experience as you could have found (even leaving aside the creepy sexual harassment side).

As for becoming a judge out of UNLV - it’s possible, especially if you stay local (look up local judges and see where they went to school - there are often judges originally from local schools). There are just a million variables along the ways and the process is more about politics than where you went to school.

All of this is correct. There's also a wide gulf between the process of becoming a state judge vs. a federal judge. I think they're both bad goals to have in mind when you haven't started law school, due to the unpredictable nature of getting selected/elected for those positions. But my guess is that a UNLV student would have a better shot at the state bench.

In terms of clerkships, I'd say that a 9th Circuit clerkship is all but impossible from UNLV, and a district clerkship in a competitive place like N.D. Cal. would be extremely difficult to land. I wouldn't go to any law school (except perhaps Yale) with a federal-clerkship-or-bust attitude, because the vast majority of students will never get one. It's also a year-long gig, not a permanent career (for most clerks). But you'd need to be at the absolute top of your class at UNLV to even have a fighting chance, and that's just not something you can predict.

I understand. Would Davis/Irvine fare any better or be worth attending with those aspirations, even without a stipend/with not such a great scholly?

[nixy]

Frankly, I don’t think so. They’re all regional schools. UNLV has the advantage of being the only local school, but the LV/NV market isn’t very big. Davis/Irvine are part of a bigger legal market, but CA has tons and tons of law schools they’ll compete with.

Irvine does have a better track record for clerkships but I don’t know how that’s holding up now that Chemerinsky isn’t there and I wouldn’t pay full price for that better track record.

I actually think someone might, possibly, get a 9th Cir clerkship in Nevada out of UNLV, but only if they were the top student (mayyyybe in the top 3), which you cannot guarantee. District court clerkships would likewise require high grades, if maybe not that high (depending on a lot of factors). But cav is right that most students don’t do them and they’re one year out of your life, not a career.

State court clerkships can be very rewarding, and helpful for working in a given market, and they’d be more realistic out of UNLV, though they’d still probably require excellent performance (or the right connections).

[deadpanic]

It sounds like UNLV is kind of a random school you picked out, and you have some kind of fascination with judges.

Respectfully, I don't think picking a random school for a vague idea of having a fun time while clerking for a federal judge is enough to justify to tell you to go to law school right now. But if you are content with living and practicing in Vegas, and doing something like being a local prosecutor, then have at it.