Set on Chicago, but What School?

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lj6711297

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Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby lj6711297 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:35 pm

Okay, so for a variety of reasons I'm pretty set on Chicago area for law school. For this post just assume Chicago area is the only option. The only problem is my numbers are pretty poor for NU/UChicago and I do not know what is the next best option. Here is some more info (assume reject from NU/UChi)

-Considering all other schools (so Loyola, DePaul, Chicago-Kent, and John Marshall)
-Dead set on IP (engineering undergrad)
-CoA will most likely be the same for these schools ( around 10k/yr for tuition + CoL)
-From Chicago area and I would say I have one solid connection (already agreed to set me up with an internship after 1L)

When I say best option I strictly mean employment outcomes (hopefully big law but is that unrealistic?)
Obviously the NALP data helps but I have searched a lot for IP specific career outcomes and don't seem to find much at all.

So what school do you guys think is my best bet?

AJordan

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby AJordan » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:50 am

The bad news is that, no, biglaw from these schools is, while not impossible, certainly not "reasonable" as you put it.

How low is your GPA? Northwestern is known to dip pretty low if you can get above their LSAT median. That would be a more reasonable path to biglaw.

lj6711297

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby lj6711297 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:00 am

AJordan wrote:The bad news is that, no, biglaw from these schools is, while not impossible, certainly not "reasonable" as you put it.

How low is your GPA? Northwestern is known to dip pretty low if you can get above their LSAT median. That would be a more reasonable path to biglaw.



Yeah, I see. GPA rn now is a 3.24, but I averaged about a 3.5/3.6 for the last 3 semesters. I had a bunch of health issues for the first three with an average gpa of 2.5. I addressed this in an addendum if that makes any difference.

AJordan

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby AJordan » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:05 pm

lj6711297 wrote:
AJordan wrote:The bad news is that, no, biglaw from these schools is, while not impossible, certainly not "reasonable" as you put it.

How low is your GPA? Northwestern is known to dip pretty low if you can get above their LSAT median. That would be a more reasonable path to biglaw.



Yeah, I see. GPA rn now is a 3.24, but I averaged about a 3.5/3.6 for the last 3 semesters. I had a bunch of health issues for the first three with an average gpa of 2.5. I addressed this in an addendum if that makes any difference.


Tough, because even though you could probably get into Northwestern if you break 170 it might not be worth the cost. For Chicago biglaw though that's probably your best option even though I don't think it's particularly good assuming you aren't financially covered already.

The other schools aren't awful as long as you can go for free. They just might not have a direct path to the job you're looking for. If it's possible to contact their admissions office and ask them to refer you to a professional in that field that graduated recently from their school I think an email to that individual would be a good step toward finding out more information.

albanach

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby albanach » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:13 pm

AJordan wrote:Tough, because even though you could probably get into Northwestern if you break 170 it might not be worth the cost. For Chicago biglaw though that's probably your best option even though I don't think it's particularly good assuming you aren't financially covered already.


It's always dangerous to bet all or nothing on one of the smaller legal markets. If OP would be okay with NY, then it might be possible to land a position there and lateral or transfer back into Chicago later, particularly if they establish connections while at school. That's still going to suggest aiming for Northwestern as a school choice.

OP might have to get comfortable with assuming a lot of debt and, potentially, graduating into a recession.

QContinuum

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:19 pm

AJordan wrote:Tough, because even though you could probably get into Northwestern if you break 170 it might not be worth the cost. For Chicago biglaw though that's probably your best option even though I don't think it's particularly good assuming you aren't financially covered already.

The other schools aren't awful as long as you can go for free. They just might not have a direct path to the job you're looking for. If it's possible to contact their admissions office and ask them to refer you to a professional in that field that graduated recently from their school I think an email to that individual would be a good step toward finding out more information.

Given OP's BigLaw goals, I'm very skeptical that they should attend Loyola, DePaul, Chicago-Kent, or John Marshall. Loyola has BigLaw placement of 18%, DePaul has 8%, Chicago-Kent has 12%, and John Marshall has 5%. Those are abysmal numbers. OP might have a slightly easier run of it than their peers due to their engineering major and desire to do IP, but I still wouldn't risk attending a school with BigLaw placement numbers that low. IP isn't the magic bullet it used to be (if it ever was). If OP is set on attending one of those schools, they should try to get a patent agent position first, and then do law school with the firm's approval (and preferably tuition reimbursement), with the understanding that they would transition to being an associate after they graduate.

Northwestern's a reasonable option and I'd even give UofC a shot, if OP can get their LSAT high enough. I think NW's placement numbers are good enough that I'd be comfortable advising OP to go there even at full freight if they are absolutely unable/unwilling to leave Chicago for law school and want to do BigLaw.

albanach

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby albanach » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:33 pm

lj6711297 wrote:Okay, so for a variety of reasons I'm pretty set on Chicago area for law school.


OP, can you clarify if you are open to working away from Chicago post-law school and, likely, during your 2L summer?

I don't think it changes the school recommendations - NW or, if you can get in, Chicago - which obviously demands you ace the LSAT. However, it would make taking on those schools at sticker more attractive knowing you have improved exit options.

lj6711297

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby lj6711297 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:46 pm

QContinuum wrote:
AJordan wrote:Tough, because even though you could probably get into Northwestern if you break 170 it might not be worth the cost. For Chicago biglaw though that's probably your best option even though I don't think it's particularly good assuming you aren't financially covered already.

The other schools aren't awful as long as you can go for free. They just might not have a direct path to the job you're looking for. If it's possible to contact their admissions office and ask them to refer you to a professional in that field that graduated recently from their school I think an email to that individual would be a good step toward finding out more information.

Given OP's BigLaw goals, I'm very skeptical that they should attend Loyola, DePaul, Chicago-Kent, or John Marshall. Loyola has BigLaw placement of 18%, DePaul has 8%, Chicago-Kent has 12%, and John Marshall has 5%. Those are abysmal numbers. OP might have a slightly easier run of it than their peers due to their engineering major and desire to do IP, but I still wouldn't risk attending a school with BigLaw placement numbers that low. IP isn't the magic bullet it used to be (if it ever was). If OP is set on attending one of those schools, they should try to get a patent agent position first, and then do law school with the firm's approval (and preferably tuition reimbursement), with the understanding that they would transition to being an associate after they graduate.

Northwestern's a reasonable option and I'd even give UofC a shot, if OP can get their LSAT high enough. I think NW's placement numbers are good enough that I'd be comfortable advising OP to go there even at full freight if they are absolutely unable/unwilling to leave Chicago for law school and want to do BigLaw.



I definitely agree with your breakdown of the schools I listed. The numbers are real bad for the placement I was looking for at those schools, so if NU offered at all, I'd be highly inclined to take it at any price. Probably also skews my perspective that I'm super fortunate to have finances covered.

lj6711297

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby lj6711297 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:48 pm

albanach wrote:
lj6711297 wrote:Okay, so for a variety of reasons I'm pretty set on Chicago area for law school.


OP, can you clarify if you are open to working away from Chicago post-law school and, likely, during your 2L summer?

I don't think it changes the school recommendations - NW or, if you can get in, Chicago - which obviously demands you ace the LSAT. However, it would make taking on those schools at sticker more attractive knowing you have improved exit options.


Yeah, I would be open to working away from Chicago in the summers and if there was an extreme difference in job offers after graduations, I would be open to moving.

albanach

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby albanach » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:48 pm

lj6711297 wrote:
albanach wrote:
lj6711297 wrote:Okay, so for a variety of reasons I'm pretty set on Chicago area for law school.


OP, can you clarify if you are open to working away from Chicago post-law school and, likely, during your 2L summer?

I don't think it changes the school recommendations - NW or, if you can get in, Chicago - which obviously demands you ace the LSAT. However, it would make taking on those schools at sticker more attractive knowing you have improved exit options.


Yeah, I would be open to working away from Chicago in the summers and if there was an extreme difference in job offers after graduations, I would be open to moving.


If you have some or all of the cost of tuition covered, and are open to working away from Chicago, then your next goal should be to maximize the LSAT and get in to one of those top schools. It's the best way to achieve the outcome you want.

This is doable, but it could take a lot of work. Get on to the LSAT forums here and start reading. Work out a game plan to get to 170+. Most folk don't need a course, and the big commercial courses are not geared towards folk trying to get to 170+. Give it some time and decide if you want to take a course or pay for tuition should you plateau later.

If you aren't ready on time, postpone by a year - it's not a big deal. Don't take the LSAT until you're testing in the range you need to score.

Good luck.

QContinuum

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby QContinuum » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:12 pm

Wubbles wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:You should look at Michigan schools, not that far away. Mine has been just fine.

go away. Mods, isn't recommending Cooley a banable offense or something?

Oh, I thought Johnny was recommending that OP consider UMich, which they certainly should if they're willing to migrate to Michigan for law school. But it was my understanding that the whole point of the thread was that OP isn't willing to leave Chicago for law school. Otherwise, the advice would certainly be to maximize their LSAT, then apply across the T13/T20.

And please don't recommend Cooley. Fortunately, I think OP's smart enough not to fall for that bad suggestion.

lj6711297

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby lj6711297 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:37 pm

QContinuum wrote:
Wubbles wrote:
Johnnybgoode92 wrote:You should look at Michigan schools, not that far away. Mine has been just fine.

go away. Mods, isn't recommending Cooley a banable offense or something?

Oh, I thought Johnny was recommending that OP consider UMich, which they certainly should if they're willing to migrate to Michigan for law school. But it was my understanding that the whole point of the thread was that OP isn't willing to leave Chicago for law school. Otherwise, the advice would certainly be to maximize their LSAT, then apply across the T13/T20.

And please don't recommend Cooley. Fortunately, I think OP's smart enough not to fall for that bad suggestion.


Haha thanks, yeah probably won't be applying to Cooley....

As for migration, I would consider it for a school like UMich if I got in. And the only T1 school I've heard back from is Minnesota and they offered a 2/3 tuition scholarship which seems nice. But in the end, it'd probably take a T14 school to get me out of Chicago.

Should of mentioned it at the beginning of this post, but I did poor on the LSAT so thats why I mentioned to assume rejection from NU and UChicago. Kinda random question, but is it possible to take the January LSAT and use it for Fall 2019 apps if theyre already submitted?

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TheBlueDevil

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby TheBlueDevil » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:48 pm

If, as you claim, you're open to working away from Chicago during summers or after graduation and you're willing to consider Michigan for law school (which is pretty far from Chicago; you certainly won't be commuting in everyday), you really ought to at least consider the University of Illinois, which is better than any of the schools suggested in OP but not T14-level competitive, and it has good connections to the Chicago area and market.

And, if you can get your LSAT up to the T14 range, you might as well consider all the T14 if you're willing to consider Michigan. Totally unbiased, but I think I've heard that Duke is one of the best. Seriously though, I think Berkeley, Stanford, NYU, and, yes, Duke all have really strong IP programs.

lj6711297

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby lj6711297 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:00 am

TheBlueDevil wrote:If, as you claim, you're open to working away from Chicago during summers or after graduation and you're willing to consider Michigan for law school (which is pretty far from Chicago; you certainly won't be commuting in everyday), you really ought to at least consider the University of Illinois, which is better than any of the schools suggested in OP but not T14-level competitive, and it has good connections to the Chicago area and market.

And, if you can get your LSAT up to the T14 range, you might as well consider all the T14 if you're willing to consider Michigan. Totally unbiased, but I think I've heard that Duke is one of the best. Seriously though, I think Berkeley, Stanford, NYU, and, yes, Duke all have really strong IP programs.



Yeah, I would strongly consider all the schools you list if I got in. Chances are slim to none with my current LSAT score

As for as University of Illinois, I am currently finishing up my undergrad here and I really don't think I can do another 3 years in Champaign.

Thanks for your feed back

Wubbles

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby Wubbles » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:58 am

lj6711297 wrote:
TheBlueDevil wrote:If, as you claim, you're open to working away from Chicago during summers or after graduation and you're willing to consider Michigan for law school (which is pretty far from Chicago; you certainly won't be commuting in everyday), you really ought to at least consider the University of Illinois, which is better than any of the schools suggested in OP but not T14-level competitive, and it has good connections to the Chicago area and market.

And, if you can get your LSAT up to the T14 range, you might as well consider all the T14 if you're willing to consider Michigan. Totally unbiased, but I think I've heard that Duke is one of the best. Seriously though, I think Berkeley, Stanford, NYU, and, yes, Duke all have really strong IP programs.



Yeah, I would strongly consider all the schools you list if I got in. Chances are slim to none with my current LSAT score

As for as University of Illinois, I am currently finishing up my undergrad here and I really don't think I can do another 3 years in Champaign.

Thanks for your feed back

I think you should work some in the engineering field before law school if you want to do IP work. It'll give you time to get your LSAT up, get the work experience often needed for IP jobs, and allow you to focus on your studies while you can still help your gpa a little.

Npret

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Re: Set on Chicago, but What School?

Postby Npret » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:40 am

lj6711297 wrote:Okay, so for a variety of reasons I'm pretty set on Chicago area for law school. For this post just assume Chicago area is the only option. The only problem is my numbers are pretty poor for NU/UChicago and I do not know what is the next best option. Here is some more info (assume reject from NU/UChi)

-Considering all other schools (so Loyola, DePaul, Chicago-Kent, and John Marshall)
-Dead set on IP (engineering undergrad)
-CoA will most likely be the same for these schools ( around 10k/yr for tuition + CoL)
-From Chicago area and I would say I have one solid connection (already agreed to set me up with an internship after 1L)

When I say best option I strictly mean employment outcomes (hopefully big law but is that unrealistic?)
Obviously the NALP data helps but I have searched a lot for IP specific career outcomes and don't seem to find much at all.

So what school do you guys think is my best bet?

You might be better off looking for alums from these schools working in IP in Chicago firms and talking to them.
Chicago is a smaller, competitive market and I don’t know much about it.
You’ve limited yourself here by market, but I don’t think any of the schools you’ve listed will likely take you out of the Midwest anyway. I think biglaw is unrealistic as you won’t get it from median from these schools.
I didn’t see your LSAT score, maybe I overlooked it.



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