St. John's vs. GMU

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Fishhook411

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St. John's vs. GMU

Postby Fishhook411 » Tue May 29, 2018 10:01 pm

St. John's = 60,000+ 15,000(living expenses)- 50,000(scholarship) = $25,000 per year
GMU = 40,000 (Out of state) + 20,000(living expenses) - 30,000(scholarship) = $30,000 per year.

I added on extra living expenses to DC because living there for undergrad cost about that much each year. For St. John's I am estimating the Cost of living. I intend to take loans to cover all law school expenses.
- I was also accepted to GWU at ticket price but have since decided against taking on massive amounts of debt.
- I live in NY at the moment but have lived in DC before and would rather end up living and working there after law school.
- I want to work in either securities and corporate law or international law, although I do know it is extremely hard to get into this field without attending a T14 school I am still set on these fields. I would like to end up in DC working for the SEC or a biglaw firm, but I am unsure of GMU's reputation in the DC area, especially with GWU and Georgetown to compete with.
Any info on GMU's placement in law firms around DC would be extremely helpful!

DerKatze

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Re: St. John's vs. GMU

Postby DerKatze » Tue May 29, 2018 10:34 pm

I suggest you look at each school's employment summary. Here's GMU's: https://www.law.gmu.edu/career/employment_information, here's St. John's: https://www.stjohns.edu/law/career-deve ... -graduates, and here's Georgetown's: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... t-data.cfm.

It is extremely likely that if you attend either GMU or St. John's, the SEC will be completely out of reach and most Biglaw firms will be out of reach as well. If you do really well, like top 10-20%, you might get a lower tiered Biglaw firm. For GMU, last year 17 in a class of over 150 got Biglaw jobs, and at St. John's 28 out of 214 got Biglaw jobs. The 75th percentile pay for the GMU graduating class of 2016 was $115,000--and the median was $67,000. The median at St. John's from 2016 was similar, $65,000, but the 75th percentile was only $97,500.

Now look at Georgetown's. Georgetown's 25th percentile starting salary is $65,000, but both their median and 75th percentile are $180,000. Last year, out of a class of 616, 280 got biglaw jobs and 54 got jobs at firms just below biglaw (251-500 attorneys).

You would be taking out half the loans (75-90k versus 200k) to make 1/3 the salary. Plus, unless you go to Georgetown, you will never work for the SEC, and you will likely never work at a major firm in either securities, corporate, or international law.

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nealric

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Re: St. John's vs. GMU

Postby nealric » Wed May 30, 2018 9:35 am

Fishhook411 wrote:St. John's = 60,000+ 15,000(living expenses)- 50,000(scholarship) = $25,000 per year
GMU = 40,000 (Out of state) + 20,000(living expenses) - 30,000(scholarship) = $30,000 per year.

I added on extra living expenses to DC because living there for undergrad cost about that much each year. For St. John's I am estimating the Cost of living. I intend to take loans to cover all law school expenses.
- I was also accepted to GWU at ticket price but have since decided against taking on massive amounts of debt.
- I live in NY at the moment but have lived in DC before and would rather end up living and working there after law school.
- I want to work in either securities and corporate law or international law, although I do know it is extremely hard to get into this field without attending a T14 school I am still set on these fields. I would like to end up in DC working for the SEC or a biglaw firm, but I am unsure of GMU's reputation in the DC area, especially with GWU and Georgetown to compete with.
Any info on GMU's placement in law firms around DC would be extremely helpful!


So what's your game plan under the likely outcome that you will not not get an entry level biglaw or SEC job? You are looking to borrow $75-100k for a 15-20% chance of getting where you want to go. Will you be devastated if all you can find is personal injury or insurance defense work?

thelastlaugh

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Re: St. John's vs. GMU

Postby thelastlaugh » Wed May 30, 2018 11:55 am

DerKatze wrote:It is extremely likely that if you attend either GMU or St. John's, the SEC will be completely out of reach and most Biglaw firms will be out of reach as well. If you do really well, like top 10-20%, you might get a lower tiered Biglaw firm.


As an STJ alum, I think this is overstated. The majority of law review at STJ ends up working in biglaw, including places like S&C, Simpson, Latham, Debevoise, so not "lower tiered" by any means. I agree with the general advice that at GMU or STJ you need to hit it out of the park to work at one of these places. And, if your goal is really to be in DC, STJ won't have the pull in that market. Many NY firms will let you split your summer with the DC office, but that's firm specific and not guaranteed. Georgetown gives you considerably more options. And you'll spend three years in the market you want to be in.

15k a year in NY is also underestimating living expenses IMO (you're probably looking at 9-12k just for rent/utilities). I graduated several years ago and living conservatively it was closer to 20-22k (at least until you have a SA position 2L summer).



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