BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

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bla96

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BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby bla96 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:26 pm

Hi guys! I am currently deciding between BU or WUSTL. Both have a COA at 60k/yr right now, but I really hope to negotiate my scholarship at whichever school I pick. Hopefully I can get it down to a total of 50k/yr, which I would be happy with.

I hope to work in BigLaw, or at least a large corporate firm that is reputable! My goal is to someday work as an in-house lawyer, but I know that generally starts at large firms! I would be happy living in most cities, but I am not the biggest fan of the south. As long as I can work in a large law firm, I will be happy :D

I am just wondering what you guys think my chances are at BigLaw at either school? I know I have to be in the top % of my class, and I am going to do everything possible to do that (I know it will be really difficult, but I will work my ass off to get in the top 3rd). I really hope I can.

LST says BU has a BigLaw placement of 35% and WashU has a placement of 40%. But just in everyone's opinion, what do you think is my best bet?? I know sometimes numbers don't tell the full story... Advice? Thank you so much!!

beinghuman

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby beinghuman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:12 pm

Big Law would be pretty difficult from these two schools. You should retake and aim for T-13.

bla96

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby bla96 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:25 pm

Well, 35% of BU grads end up in BigLaw, and 40% of WashU grads end up there! Which doesn't sound extraordinarily difficult IMO. I know that making it into the 35 or 40% that are in BigLaw requires being in the top of my class... But I think the numbers show that many people that go to both of these schools end up in BigLaw. I was just wondering what people's opinions are on which school might be better!

I cannot retake - I retook 3 times and have SEVERE anxiety when it comes to standardized tests. I really did the best I could possibly do. I also cannot wait another year. For my mom to help me, I go this year or I don't go at all /:

I am extraordinarily proud of myself for getting into both of these schools :D

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blair.waldorf

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby blair.waldorf » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:18 pm

WUSTL if you want the midwest, TX, some mid-southern states.
BU if you want east coast/southeast.

current WUSTL 1L. may have slightly higher placement but if you want east coast BU is the better bet. if you want to be at any big law firm you can get and would be happy with the midwest then probably WUSTL.

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deadpanic

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby deadpanic » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:14 pm

Wait. These will cost 60k per year? That's way too much debt for not a great chance at BigLaw.

If you are so set on BigLaw, you need to wait until you can retake again. It is as simple as that.

If you have anxiety for a standardized test you can retake several times, how are you going to be in the top of your class for law school or kill job interviews?

bla96

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby bla96 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:50 pm

Lol, I don't need to do anything. I also can't do that... I am proud of myself for where I have gotten. Don't make me feel like shit just because I didn't get into Harvard... BU and WUSTL are great law schools, I was just asking for advice for which one has better prospects for BigLaw. 35% and 40% are NOT low chances, especially when the majority of law students at both of these schools have public interest concentrations (criminal, family, environmental, etc.), NOT just corporate law concentrations. So it's not like 100% of the students are gunning for the same job.

I have anxiety with standardized testing. I always have had anxiety about it. I don't have anxiety with school or interviews, though. I have a 4.0 with 2 majors. I have had multiple internships and professional jobs (which I have had to interview for and aced).

Yes, $60k a year. But I should be able to negotiate things to $50k a year. This is including all costs of living, housing, fees, books, and tuition... $150,000 all in is about average for private law school debt. Plus, I have no undergrad debt and my mom is going to help me with living expenses if I start in the fall.

Also, BU's average starting salary in private sector is $160,000 according to US News. So, I will be fine. I just wanted some friendly advice on which school might be my best option. Thanks.

sparkytrainer

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby sparkytrainer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:36 am

bla96 wrote:Lol, I don't need to do anything. I also can't do that... I am proud of myself for where I have gotten. Don't make me feel like shit just because I didn't get into Harvard... BU and WUSTL are great law schools, I was just asking for advice for which one has better prospects for BigLaw. 35% and 40% are NOT low chances, especially when the majority of law students at both of these schools have public interest concentrations (criminal, family, environmental, etc.), NOT just corporate law concentrations. So it's not like 100% of the students are gunning for the same job.

I have anxiety with standardized testing. I always have had anxiety about it. I don't have anxiety with school or interviews, though. I have a 4.0 with 2 majors. I have had multiple internships and professional jobs (which I have had to interview for and aced).

Yes, $60k a year. But I should be able to negotiate things to $50k a year. This is including all costs of living, housing, fees, books, and tuition... $150,000 all in is about average for private law school debt. Plus, I have no undergrad debt and my mom is going to help me with living expenses if I start in the fall.

Also, BU's average starting salary in private sector is $160,000 according to US News. So, I will be fine. I just wanted some friendly advice on which school might be my best option. Thanks.


I'm glad you wanna be all emotional about this, but the truth of the matter is that 35-40% biglaw chances is LOW CHANCES. Half of the t13, like Columbia, and Duke for example give you an 85% chance of biglaw. 35-40% is peanuts. If you have anxiety over a stupid admissions test, how are you gonna do when your whole grade for each class is from one exam where everyone is competing against everyone? One little mistake and you won't kiss median? Trust me, it happens. 50k a year for either school is a death sentence because the chances of biglaw is rather remote. You might not like this advice, but the people here are giving you the truth. You can choose to ignore us, but when you don't get biglaw and then paying back 200k-250k in loans (remember interest does happen) with a 60k a year job, think about how the literal rest of your life will be paying 3k a month until you die.

This is harsh advice, but its true. You having such severe anxiety that you can't resit for the lsat means you are not going to do well in law school. I promise you that. And that means you won't even sniff biglaw from either of these schools. Good luck to you, but just know you are literally making the worst decision of your life if you pick either at this price point.

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby beinghuman » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:47 pm

I have to agree with sparkytrainer here.
And yes, the figures you give are low. And if you have severe anxiety, law school might not be the best choice for you.
No one is saying you should feel shitty about yourself but you should be able to handle reality.
There's a high chance that you'll regret your decision if you go to these schools. Take this as brotherly advice. No one is trying to belittle you on here.

bla96 wrote:Well, 35% of BU grads end up in BigLaw, and 40% of WashU grads end up there! Which doesn't sound extraordinarily difficult IMO. I know that making it into the 35 or 40% that are in BigLaw requires being in the top of my class... But I think the numbers show that many people that go to both of these schools end up in BigLaw. I was just wondering what people's opinions are on which school might be better!

I cannot retake - I retook 3 times and have SEVERE anxiety when it comes to standardized tests. I really did the best I could possibly do. I also cannot wait another year. For my mom to help me, I go this year or I don't go at all /:

I am extraordinarily proud of myself for getting into both of these schools :D

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blair.waldorf

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby blair.waldorf » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:13 pm

just to clarify, my advice was to the options you presented. the best answer is to retake and work on your anxiety. i also had the impression your parents were providing way more help than you noted - if they’re just helping with living expenses then fuck that, you can do way better with a retake. also test anxiety on the lsat imo means you will have law school test anxiety as well. i never had undergraduate test anxiety but did for both the lsat and law school exams. the way they test is similar imo.

as someone who finished very high at WUSTL i agree with every thing else said. 40% is not high and you have to remember the diversity spots, people with strong connections, etc. you really need top third to comfortably get big law and that’s no guarantee. best friend and i had 2/3 classes together, employed the same strategies, and both did very well in the 2 we had together. the third she had a substantially more difficult and unpredictable prof than i and her grade on that final sunk her GPA. another friend got really sick during exams but not sick enough to be like hospitalized and have them postponed. she did ok but would’ve done way better had she not had a fever making her delusional.

my point is: your chance at BL is decided by 6-8 finals (depending on number of doctrinal). one unlucky break - getting sick, one bad exam, whatever - can seriously hurt your gpa. that one unlucky break can ruin your shot at big law. it is not worth the risk if you are bl or bust - if you attend either school you need to serious think about just how unhappy you’ll be if u don’t get BL.

just retake.

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby albanach » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:42 pm

bla96 wrote:Lol, I don't need to do anything. I also can't do that... I am proud of myself for where I have gotten. Don't make me feel like shit just because I didn't get into Harvard... BU and WUSTL are great law schools, I was just asking for advice for which one has better prospects for BigLaw. 35% and 40% are NOT low chances, especially when the majority of law students at both of these schools have public interest concentrations (criminal, family, environmental, etc.), NOT just corporate law concentrations. So it's not like 100% of the students are gunning for the same job.

I have anxiety with standardized testing. I always have had anxiety about it. I don't have anxiety with school or interviews, though. I have a 4.0 with 2 majors. I have had multiple internships and professional jobs (which I have had to interview for and aced).

Yes, $60k a year. But I should be able to negotiate things to $50k a year. This is including all costs of living, housing, fees, books, and tuition... $150,000 all in is about average for private law school debt. Plus, I have no undergrad debt and my mom is going to help me with living expenses if I start in the fall.

Also, BU's average starting salary in private sector is $160,000 according to US News. So, I will be fine. I just wanted some friendly advice on which school might be my best option. Thanks.


Your schools are good, not great. People here are concerned because they are expensive and while there's a chance of high-paying employment, there's also a very real chance of no job, part time/short term work, or something else that doesn't meet your goals.

Many here would give anything for a 4.0 undergraduate major. A solid LSAT would likely mean free or very low cost attendance at one of the country's best law schools. People don't want you to feel like shit because you didn't get into Harvard, but do want you to know that Harvard shouldn't be outside the realm of possible schools if you could beat the test day anxiety.

I had classmates with anxiety issues who performed amazingly through law school and continue to excel in their chosen fields as lawyers. I don't think for a minute that it should stop you becoming a lawyer. However legal work, and biglaw in particular, is very stressful and demanding. Anything that minimizes debt and boosts your options is a good thing. And a higher ranked school achieves both.

I'm sorry that other posts are so negative. As I said above, I think people's intentions are generally good. Perhaps you could post another thread asking others who have battled anxiety how they made it through the LSAT?

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nealric

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby nealric » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:51 pm

bla96 wrote:
Also, BU's average starting salary in private sector is $160,000 according to US News. So, I will be fine. I just wanted some friendly advice on which school might be my best option. Thanks.


I remember when they were reporting Hofstra as having $160k starting salaries. They are extracting a subset of the population of graduates and making it seem like it's representative of outcomes as a whole. The only people who are getting salaries larger than $120k or so are going to big firms, which is 40% of the student body.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/washu/jobs/

As to the retake advice. I get it, test anxiety is tough, but that does not mean you are unable to improve your score. You clearly got your score high enough to get into WUSTL, and the difference between WUSTL and T14 schools is a tiny handful of points. It may be helpful to see a psychiatrist about it if the test anxiety is really debilitating. Remember your entire biglaw employability is determined by a handful if TESTS you take in your first year.

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby Subban_Fan » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:57 pm

The anxiety thing isn't as big a deal as some of the people here make it out to be. Many people use it as an advantage because they can get exam accommodations (extra time on finals, exam dates moved, taking exams in separate rooms). There are people that bombed the LSAT and did this that ended up with very good grades, and into big law firms.

You should focus more on the cost of tuition/attendance, that's the real problem. I wouldn't pay that amount for anything on interest not related to real estate holdings.

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deadpanic

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby deadpanic » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:11 am

bla96 wrote:Lol, I don't need to do anything. I also can't do that... I am proud of myself for where I have gotten. Don't make me feel like shit just because I didn't get into Harvard... BU and WUSTL are great law schools, I was just asking for advice for which one has better prospects for BigLaw. 35% and 40% are NOT low chances, especially when the majority of law students at both of these schools have public interest concentrations (criminal, family, environmental, etc.), NOT just corporate law concentrations. So it's not like 100% of the students are gunning for the same job.

I have anxiety with standardized testing. I always have had anxiety about it. I don't have anxiety with school or interviews, though. I have a 4.0 with 2 majors. I have had multiple internships and professional jobs (which I have had to interview for and aced).

Yes, $60k a year. But I should be able to negotiate things to $50k a year. This is including all costs of living, housing, fees, books, and tuition... $150,000 all in is about average for private law school debt. Plus, I have no undergrad debt and my mom is going to help me with living expenses if I start in the fall.

Also, BU's average starting salary in private sector is $160,000 according to US News. So, I will be fine. I just wanted some friendly advice on which school might be my best option. Thanks.


Okay man. No one was trying to attack the schools or make you feel like shit. Just giving you honest advice. Repaying $150k+ of debt is no joke. Since you are so convinced you will be fine, it seems like the only reason you posted this is to get some confirmation bias. Best of luck.

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby davidbilly » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:36 am

The best school for students where the students will be most likely to thrive both academically and personally and I think Boston University School of Law would be better for you.

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Re: BigLaw: BU or WUSTL

Postby JHP » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:07 pm

I think jurisdiction is something you should definitely consider. I do think BU has a more national brand name and plenty of people go into big law or mid-size firms (I'm not so sure about the 35% number) and it's extremely strong for the Boston area and does pretty well in NYC and DC. Keep in mind that the stats may not account for people who are public interest or clerking, which is a fair number as well. In the end, WUSTL and BU are pretty comparable in terms of rankings when it comes to recruiters' perspectives, so it will come down to where/with whom you networked and how well you did in your grades. Will you be a bigger fish at WUSTL or BU? I think that's another important consideration.



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