Oklahoma City

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Guineapiggirl

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Oklahoma City

Postby Guineapiggirl » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:28 am

Hello, I am a long time lurker and I noticed I had not seen any posts about Oklahoma City University school of law...any insights? My family is being located there, so it was something I have thought about.

Texasdoggo

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby Texasdoggo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:04 pm

I wouldn't do it. Check out their aba forns. Much better off at Tulsa or OU

fiik

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby fiik » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:42 pm

I have a friend there who was in UG with me, she LOVES it. It is also on my list to Apply in the upcoming cycle :)

Personally, I think that ABA reports can only tell you so much about the school. I am one to see if I will fit into the culture of the campus and if they have programs I am interested in.

Wubbles

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby Wubbles » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:03 pm

fiik wrote:I have a friend there who was in UG with me, she LOVES it. It is also on my list to Apply in the upcoming cycle :)

Personally, I think that ABA reports can only tell you so much about the school. I am one to see if I will fit into the culture of the campus and if they have programs I am interested in.

Jfc......

fiik

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby fiik » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:13 am

Wubbles wrote:
fiik wrote:I have a friend there who was in UG with me, she LOVES it. It is also on my list to Apply in the upcoming cycle :)

Personally, I think that ABA reports can only tell you so much about the school. I am one to see if I will fit into the culture of the campus and if they have programs I am interested in.

Jfc......


Well, I am certainly not interested in attending a top-tier law school. Nor am I interested in attending a school where I will be uncomfortable on campus. Perhaps school rankings and reports are the most important piece of law school hunting for some, but it is not for everyone.

For the record, my friend had a 4.0 in UG and a high LSAT, she chose that school because of its location and her interest in immigration. She could have been competitive at any number of top schools but she is happy with her choice.

coramnonjudice

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby coramnonjudice » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:42 am

Go to OU. It's objectively the better school, from bar passage rates, to employment outlook, to networking opportunities.

Wubbles

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby Wubbles » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:46 am

fiik wrote:
Wubbles wrote:
fiik wrote:I have a friend there who was in UG with me, she LOVES it. It is also on my list to Apply in the upcoming cycle :)

Personally, I think that ABA reports can only tell you so much about the school. I am one to see if I will fit into the culture of the campus and if they have programs I am interested in.

Jfc......


Well, I am certainly not interested in attending a top-tier law school. Nor am I interested in attending a school where I will be uncomfortable on campus. Perhaps school rankings and reports are the most important piece of law school hunting for some, but it is not for everyone.

For the record, my friend had a 4.0 in UG and a high LSAT, she chose that school because of its location and her interest in immigration. She could have been competitive at any number of top schools but she is happy with her choice.

objective employment data should matter

fiik

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby fiik » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:14 pm

Wubbles wrote:
fiik wrote:
Wubbles wrote:
fiik wrote:I have a friend there who was in UG with me, she LOVES it. It is also on my list to Apply in the upcoming cycle :)

Personally, I think that ABA reports can only tell you so much about the school. I am one to see if I will fit into the culture of the campus and if they have programs I am interested in.

Jfc......


Well, I am certainly not interested in attending a top-tier law school. Nor am I interested in attending a school where I will be uncomfortable on campus. Perhaps school rankings and reports are the most important piece of law school hunting for some, but it is not for everyone.

For the record, my friend had a 4.0 in UG and a high LSAT, she chose that school because of its location and her interest in immigration. She could have been competitive at any number of top schools but she is happy with her choice.

objective employment data should matter


I agree that it should be considered. However, some of us are tied to certain locales because of families, kids, spouses etc. My friend, like myself, is married and has children. She was not in a position where she could relocate, so her choices were OU and OKC. She toured both, she looked at data and in the end, OKC is where she felt was the right choice.

Unlike her, I have a bit more flexibility to relocate, that doesn't mean I am ready to jump ship and start applying at top schools. I have things to consider such as the cost of living and will we have enough aid (and saved) to sustain until my husband finds a job, what areas are the best to live in with children, what are the public schools like, what type of commute will we be looking at. And of course, can I actually afford tuition?

As you can see, the application experience is different for everyone, and sometimes it makes sense to attend a school that doesn't have the best ABA reports.

nixy

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby nixy » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:24 pm

Tuition for good schools is pretty much the same as tuition for bad schools, so I don’t know why you wouldn’t apply to the schools with the best employment prospects.

fiik

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby fiik » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:09 pm

nixy wrote:Tuition for good schools is pretty much the same as tuition for bad schools, so I don’t know why you wouldn’t apply to the schools with the best employment prospects.


I think that depends on what you can afford to begin with. For instance, I live in North East Ohio. My local Choices are Case Western Reserve which is $51,900 before any other fees cost of living etc. That is about 30k higher than Cleveland Marshall or Akron Law. It is also higher ranked and has better numbers on the ABA reports.

Staying in the Cleveland area, my cost of living would remain the same. My family would not have to relocate, and my husband would not need to find a new job. There is still a matter of that 30k to contend with.

Having toured all 3, talking to other students (past and present) and visiting the campuses when not "touring", I have my top pick. It isn't CWRU. I am not even applying. Sure the numbers are better, the campus is beautiful, but it isn't right for me. Although, I do wish everyone applying there this coming cycle the best of luck! Cleveland is an awesome city to live, work and play :mrgreen:

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totesTheGoat

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby totesTheGoat » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:01 pm

fiik wrote: Sure the numbers are better, the campus is beautiful, but it isn't right for me.


The numbers being right matters more the more debt you take on. Most people on TLS asking these types of questions tend to be 22 year old kids who don't understand the value of money, and are willing to go into 6 figures of debt to have a 5% chance at a 6 figure income, a 70% chance of making $65k, and a 25% chance of not being able to find full-time work as a lawyer. That's why the numbers matter.

If you're in a situation where graduating into a $65k job doesn't financially handicap you for a decade, the numbers don't matter as much. IOW, foregoing a school that "isn't right for you" for a school with poorer employment prospects is a luxury that comes with being in a good financial situation.

fiik

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby fiik » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:31 pm

totesTheGoat wrote:
fiik wrote: Sure the numbers are better, the campus is beautiful, but it isn't right for me.


The numbers being right matters more the more debt you take on. Most people on TLS asking these types of questions tend to be 22 year old kids who don't understand the value of money, and are willing to go into 6 figures of debt to have a 5% chance at a 6 figure income, a 70% chance of making $65k, and a 25% chance of not being able to find full-time work as a lawyer. That's why the numbers matter.

If you're in a situation where graduating into a $65k job doesn't financially handicap you for a decade, the numbers don't matter as much. IOW, foregoing a school that "isn't right for you" for a school with poorer employment prospects is a luxury that comes with being in a good financial situation.


Interesting point, as a counter, I think it truly depends on where you are at in life. What your own obligations are and the financial resources you have.

I am obviously not a kid, and I have a family that I must consider. For me personally, it would not make sense to go to a school that is 30k more expensive, I am not financially stable and would only qualify for federal loans so minus any scholarships I would get the rest would be out of pocket (my husbands paycheck) and unfortunately we have children that have needs of their own, utilities and rent to pay. Our budget would not withstand it. My EFC is 0 and our credit will not allow for Grad Plus loans.

Having said that, I realize that my other choices are not as high on the employment scale as others, however, for what I am interested in pursuing I do not need an ivy league school. I need a solid legal education with a cohort that is relatable. I did not feel that CWRU would provide that. I toured it, and it wasn't right for me. That doesn't make me financially stable it makes me responsible enough to weigh out all of my options before I start taking out more debt.

BlackAndOrange84

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby BlackAndOrange84 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:28 pm

Flik, the only reason why your "situation" makes anything like rational sense is that you've limited your choices to three terrible schools where the one with marginally better numbers costs an additional $100k over three years (https://www.lstreports.com/state/OH/). That said, your attempt to claim that's good advice for OP is objectively terrible advice.

The right advice in the OP's situation, would be, if at all possible to go to OU or Tulsa rather than OCU: both of them have better employment numbers and cost less in tuition. (https://www.lstreports.com/state/OK/)

OP, if you want to practice in law in OK, I'd strongly suggest getting into OU or Tulsa. But if you're not interested in practicing in OK, you need to figure out where you want to practice or else go to a top school that will give you some flexibility.

fiik wrote:
totesTheGoat wrote:
fiik wrote: Sure the numbers are better, the campus is beautiful, but it isn't right for me.


The numbers being right matters more the more debt you take on. Most people on TLS asking these types of questions tend to be 22 year old kids who don't understand the value of money, and are willing to go into 6 figures of debt to have a 5% chance at a 6 figure income, a 70% chance of making $65k, and a 25% chance of not being able to find full-time work as a lawyer. That's why the numbers matter.

If you're in a situation where graduating into a $65k job doesn't financially handicap you for a decade, the numbers don't matter as much. IOW, foregoing a school that "isn't right for you" for a school with poorer employment prospects is a luxury that comes with being in a good financial situation.


Interesting point, as a counter, I think it truly depends on where you are at in life. What your own obligations are and the financial resources you have.

I am obviously not a kid, and I have a family that I must consider. For me personally, it would not make sense to go to a school that is 30k more expensive, I am not financially stable and would only qualify for federal loans so minus any scholarships I would get the rest would be out of pocket (my husbands paycheck) and unfortunately we have children that have needs of their own, utilities and rent to pay. Our budget would not withstand it. My EFC is 0 and our credit will not allow for Grad Plus loans.

Having said that, I realize that my other choices are not as high on the employment scale as others, however, for what I am interested in pursuing I do not need an ivy league school. I need a solid legal education with a cohort that is relatable. I did not feel that CWRU would provide that. I toured it, and it wasn't right for me. That doesn't make me financially stable it makes me responsible enough to weigh out all of my options before I start taking out more debt.

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kgm1990

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby kgm1990 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:54 pm

OCU works if you want to work in Oklahoma City or plan on opening your own small-town firm. The alumni connections are strong in OKC. Where a lot of people get into trouble is by paying that costly tuition and then trying to take that degree beyond the metro.

There is no secret that it's not an elite school, but if you can get some scholly money (and if you have a reasonable GPA/LSAT, that doesn't seem too much of a hurdle) and what to practice in OCU, do what makes the most sense for you. Shoot me a PM if you want some *take with a grain of salt* opinions, I've got some knowledge about the two schools being an Okie! :-)

fiik

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby fiik » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:23 am

BlackAndOrange84 wrote:Flik, the only reason why your "situation" makes anything like rational sense is that you've limited your choices to three terrible schools where the one with marginally better numbers costs an additional $100k over three years (https://www.lstreports.com/state/OH/). That said, your attempt to claim that's good advice for OP is objectively terrible advice.


Without knowing about the OP's situation, as OP only asked for insight to which I replied that a friend is a student there and is happy and it is on my list to check out and apply, was not advice to the OP to only consider that school, only insight. In fact, I gave absolutely no advice.

Also, there are a number of Judges, Attorneys, City/County/State Officials that would disagree with your analysis of the three schools in NEO being "terrible". Not everyone wants to work in big firms or make a ton of money, some of us want to *gasp* work within the communities to help people, and anyone that goes in with that mentality knows they aren't going to hit the lotto with a big law salary being a public servant.

Assuming that a school is "terrible" based on some arbitrary number produced on the internet that in some cases does not reflect what the ABA report states, is an opinion that is based on skewed data. That is bad advice in my opinion.

Wubbles

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby Wubbles » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:49 am

So are you going to Akron for the lazy river?

goingnutslawschool

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby goingnutslawschool » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:42 am

Goodness sake, choose University of Oklahoma Law School if given a chance. Norman is like 20 min away from Oklahoma City. Right next door. My understanding is that it’s the connections you make with your peers that will serve you well later on in your career. My guess is that if you stay in Oklahoma after Law school your network from OU will Steve you well. But I don’t understand why anyone would want Oklahoma unless they have strong family ties there.

BlackAndOrange84

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Re: Oklahoma City

Postby BlackAndOrange84 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:09 pm

fiik wrote:
BlackAndOrange84 wrote:Flik, the only reason why your "situation" makes anything like rational sense is that you've limited your choices to three terrible schools where the one with marginally better numbers costs an additional $100k over three years (https://www.lstreports.com/state/OH/). That said, your attempt to claim that's good advice for OP is objectively terrible advice.


Without knowing about the OP's situation, as OP only asked for insight to which I replied that a friend is a student there and is happy and it is on my list to check out and apply, was not advice to the OP to only consider that school, only insight. In fact, I gave absolutely no advice.

Also, there are a number of Judges, Attorneys, City/County/State Officials that would disagree with your analysis of the three schools in NEO being "terrible". Not everyone wants to work in big firms or make a ton of money, some of us want to *gasp* work within the communities to help people, and anyone that goes in with that mentality knows they aren't going to hit the lotto with a big law salary being a public servant.

Assuming that a school is "terrible" based on some arbitrary number produced on the internet that in some cases does not reflect what the ABA report states, is an opinion that is based on skewed data. That is bad advice in my opinion.


Flik, the dichotomy you have in your mind between schools that are all about "big firms or mak[ing] a ton of money" and schools like Akron & Cleveland-Marshall has no basis in reality. Only maybe the top 15-20% at the Ohio State and UC are going to end up in big firms or fed clerkships. The number at Case Western will be even smaller. And look, I'm not one of the old guard on this forum whose advice is T14 or bust. I didn't go to a T14 school—I went to a state school. I'm just asking to you look at the hard facts about employment and cost that are available.

Schools that struggle to employ more than 50% of their grads in legal jobs in good years for the market are objectively bad schools—and Akron & Cleveland employed fewer than 50% for much of the last ten years. Do you really want pay tons of money and spend three years of hard work (and the opportunity cost of working other jobs) for (maybe) a coin flip's chance of getting a job as a lawyer (or more like a 40% chance if the economy takes a turn in the next three years)? The Ohio State University and UC do a much better job in getting their grads lawyer jobs for about the same cost, and neither of those schools are all about biglaw—many of their grads go into public service or public interest jobs or work in small firms.

If you can't get into Ohio State, I'd advise you to study up for the LSAT and retake rather than taking a huge risk at Akron or Cleveland-Marshall. I get that you have other things to consider in your life, but between no law school and some of the worst in the state, you really might step back and ask whether you should go to law school at all—unless you have a guaranteed job on the other side (i.e. your current employer has promised you a job if you get a JD). Money aside, three years of law school is too much time and effort to end up a doc review attorney.

In any case, don't take my word for it, please look at the numbers for yourself and understand the very real risks you're taking: https://www.lstreports.com/state/OH/

If you have any doubts about whether LST is on the up-and-up, they take their info directly from ABA reports. Please examine that source before discarding them—they're some of the very best out there trying to get accurate and helpful information to applicants.

ETA: See here for how LST gets its data: https://www.lstreports.com/guides/Data- ... d-Process/



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