NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

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Subban_Fan

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Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby Subban_Fan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:14 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" (on significant scholarship) or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.

Edit- will only attend listed schools if given decent scholarship package



3) when you look at the employment numbers of students that come out of lower ranked schools, debit is a huge concern but servicing that debt may be an even bigger concern. $20k in loans is still $20k in loans. you need a job to pay those off. for small law, you're not marketable until you pass the bar, and who knows when that would be. it's definitely until October-ish. So from when you attend school in August of year 1 until October of year 4, you are completely unemployed plus however long it takes to find a job. It's scary, man. go read the Vale.


"Completely unemployed"? Is there a magic fairy that keeps you from working after you've taken the Bar to October? Do you have some sort of seasonal disability that pops up and prevents you from being employed? You have some type of fall allergy to working that goes until at least October? Harry Potter cast a spell on you so you can't stop reading the Vale from 9-5, get off your ass, and work?

If it's really "so scary", then go get a job. Any job. Even a *gasp* non-lawyer job :shock: . Get some income. If not, then it's obviously not "scary" enough for you. :roll:

beinghuman

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Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby beinghuman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:31 am

Yes, they are.
Unless you improve your LSAT by A LOT, do yourself a favor and don't go to law school.


ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" (on significant scholarship) or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.

Edit- will only attend listed schools if given decent scholarship package

CardozoLawStudent

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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:26 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby CardozoLawStudent » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:49 pm

jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


Hi all,

I am a 3L at Cardozo, and I just wanted to provide you guys a bit of a perspective on Cardozo. We've jumped 18 points in rankings over the last two years, and based on my conversations with the Dean we are due for even more of a rise. Currently we're at 56, but I think we'll get down to 50 easily in a year or two. Our employment numbers for my class are great - 80% of us have already secured full time, long term, JD required job. I am going into Big Law, and I know about 35/40 people in my year are as well. My class size is about 220. To say that Cardozo is "frightfully awful" is simply untrue--we are a successful school with great employment numbers, great bar passage rates (85.8% passed the first round last year).

beinghuman

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Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby beinghuman » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:08 pm

Dear CLS,

I don't think that rankings at that level are very meaningful. The cluster in which the school falls is more important than its numerical rank. So moving up 6 or more ranks within that cluster is not that informative.

35-40/220 in biglaw is 16 to 18% and is a LOW number, meaning that the likelihood that someone would achieve that outcome is also low.
Moreover, the long term employment numbers do not say anything about the quality of employment or salaries, etc, which are also important factors to consider.
So with all due respect, I don't think you should tell prospective students that Cardozo has "great employment numbers" unless you can also provide information on types of employment, salaries, debt to salary ratios, etc etc etc....

CardozoLawStudent wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


Hi all,

I am a 3L at Cardozo, and I just wanted to provide you guys a bit of a perspective on Cardozo. We've jumped 18 points in rankings over the last two years, and based on my conversations with the Dean we are due for even more of a rise. Currently we're at 56, but I think we'll get down to 50 easily in a year or two. Our employment numbers for my class are great - 80% of us have already secured full time, long term, JD required job. I am going into Big Law, and I know about 35/40 people in my year are as well. My class size is about 220. To say that Cardozo is "frightfully awful" is simply untrue--we are a successful school with great employment numbers, great bar passage rates (85.8% passed the first round last year).

thelastlaugh

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Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:09 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby thelastlaugh » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:11 pm

These lower ranked scores are only worth it if you are on a full or nearly full scholarship and have really thought about the risks that you're taking with job placement.

Most of the NY schools have decent alumni bases and strong placements in at least some areas. I run into a lot of BLS/STJ/Fordham grads in biglaw/ADA positions that are very competitive. You're not interested in biglaw, so most of the jobs it sounds like you would be interested in will not pay substantial salaries. On substantial scholarship and not paying rent you could get a J.D. fairly cheaply, but if you can't get the job you want and have to take on more than nominal debt, it's probably not worth it.

FWIW, I went to STJ with a 3.5 UG GPA/prestigious pre-law school employment/163 LSAT/non URM on a full ride and landed at a v10 firm after Law Review (any know many others similarly situated). Work your ass off, and these schools can provide a lot of opportunities.



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