NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
ANGRYBALLCOACH

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:19 pm

NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby ANGRYBALLCOACH » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:16 pm

I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" (on significant scholarship) or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.

Edit- will only attend listed schools if given decent scholarship package
Last edited by ANGRYBALLCOACH on Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
pancakes3

Platinum
Posts: 6623
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:20 pm

you're refusing to fall victim to one form of predation and open to the idea of other forms of predation

User avatar
Barack O'Drama

Gold
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:31 pm

ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.


Cardozo isn't a bad choice imo if you get a full scholarship. I don't think NYLS or BLS are good choices and CUNY is more geared toward public interest.
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
ANGRYBALLCOACH

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:19 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby ANGRYBALLCOACH » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:47 pm

Barack O'Drama wrote:
ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.


Cardozo isn't a bad choice imo if you get a full scholarship. I don't think NYLS or BLS are good choices and CUNY is more geared toward public interest.


if you don't mind me asking... why are they bad?
... also side note I was not down playing Cardozo (especially when they are ranked higher than the others)... I just liked the nickname lol

AaronCarter

Bronze
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:59 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby AaronCarter » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:53 pm

pancakes3 wrote:you're refusing to fall victim to one form of predation and open to the idea of other forms of predation



So deep. The true oracle. :roll:

User avatar
bosshawg

New
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby bosshawg » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:39 pm

ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" (on significant scholarship) or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.

Edit- will only attend listed schools if given decent scholarship package


If you can get your LSAT into the mid 160s you're probably looking at Fordham with $$

User avatar
Barack O'Drama

Gold
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:24 pm

ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:
Barack O'Drama wrote:
ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.


Cardozo isn't a bad choice imo if you get a full scholarship. I don't think NYLS or BLS are good choices and CUNY is more geared toward public interest.


if you don't mind me asking... why are they bad?
... also side note I was not down playing Cardozo (especially when they are ranked higher than the others)... I just liked the nickname lol


Just take a look at their employment stats/bar passages on LST. I'd worry about a place like NYLS closing down in the next few years... I don't actually know anything about BLS aside from their employment/COA don't seem to be that great, though I'm not sure I would say it's objectively "bad."
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Subban_Fan

New
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:52 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby Subban_Fan » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:25 pm

I've heard good things about CUNY and public interest. I've also heard decent things about Brooklyn, and I've seen people from there end up at top firms or other good opportunities in NYC but they had the whole good grades/law review thing.

If you're interested in public interest, you want to see if the school offers clinics or fellowships to its students in the area of PI you're interested in. Also, how many spots are available. Because aside from spending your summers volunteering in public interest, the clinics will show you have interest. I've been to quite a few interviews in the PI/Government sector and am always asked "Why didn't you do ______ clinic?" or "Why did you do your summer internship this place, and not here if you're interested in this type of work?"

I agree with Barack O'Drama on checking LST to get a ballpark idea of career outlook. Aside from that, searching many LinkedIn profiles to see where recent grads end up. The city where I'm from, LST shows bad statistics out of one of the third tier schools. But the DA's offices around here are stacked with their alumni and many of their interns are also from that school.

cuzzydunlop

New
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:45 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby cuzzydunlop » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:44 pm

If you are debt averse, items 1 through 100 on your list of priorities should be a significantly better LSAT score. Stop worrying about schools and rankings. Worry about getting a better score. Good luck.

L_William_W

Bronze
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:20 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby L_William_W » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:18 pm

I graduated from CUNY in December 2013. It took me 7 semesters to graduate- in fact, I was nearly academically dismissed. My LSAT score was mediocre. Nevertheless, I passed the NY Bar on my 3rd attempt (I'm also licensed in NJ).

CUNY is good for public interest and working at small firms. You won't get a white collar job on Wall Street. Nevertheless, it's much cheaper than Columbia and NYU.The professors vary in quality.

Speaking from experience, you shouldn't attend CUNY just to make money. You really need to have a desire to be a do-gooder.

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10260
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:29 pm

If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.

User avatar
ANGRYBALLCOACH

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:19 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby ANGRYBALLCOACH » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:17 pm

jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


... clearly stated I am retaking lol

L_William_W

Bronze
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:20 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby L_William_W » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:15 am

jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


Elitist bullshit. Just because someone isn't a trust fund baby who attends Columbia doesn't mean that they're a worthless human being. For the record, 88% of CUNY students passed the July 2017 NY bar.

I see the Trump disease is spreading. I guess it's ok to belittle the middle class and minorities...

User avatar
pancakes3

Platinum
Posts: 6623
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:17 am

L_William_W wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


Elitist bullshit. Just because someone isn't a trust fund baby who attends Columbia doesn't mean that they're a worthless human being. For the record, 88% of CUNY students passed the July 2017 NY bar.

I see the Trump disease is spreading. I guess it's ok to belittle the middle class and minorities...


man you're dumb.

L_William_W

Bronze
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:20 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby L_William_W » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:22 am

pancakes3 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


Elitist bullshit. Just because someone isn't a trust fund baby who attends Columbia doesn't mean that they're a worthless human being. For the record, 88% of CUNY students passed the July 2017 NY bar.

I see the Trump disease is spreading. I guess it's ok to belittle the middle class and minorities...


man you're dumb.


I'm a moron who passed two bar exams (NY and NJ)...

Subban_Fan

New
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:52 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby Subban_Fan » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:40 am

L_William_W wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


Elitist bullshit. Just because someone isn't a trust fund baby who attends Columbia doesn't mean that they're a worthless human being. For the record, 88% of CUNY students passed the July 2017 NY bar.

I see the Trump disease is spreading. I guess it's ok to belittle the middle class and minorities...


Probably over 99% of people on TLS are middle class, especially when taking into account their assets versus debt.

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:42 am

L_William_W wrote:Elitist bullshit. Just because someone isn't a trust fund baby who attends Columbia doesn't mean that they're a worthless human being.


Man, if only people had been criticizing the schools and not the graduates of those schools...

User avatar
Barack O'Drama

Gold
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Post removed...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 am

Post removed...
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

cuzzydunlop

New
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:45 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby cuzzydunlop » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:12 am

also live in NYC and know many low tier NYC grads, none of them are lawyers. at best they work in Compliance somewhere. which isn't bad either, but something to keep in mind when taking on massive debt, considering you don't need a JD to work in Compliance.

User avatar
pancakes3

Platinum
Posts: 6623
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:20 am

L_William_W wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:If you don’t retake the LSAT, you’re accepting predation. Yes, these schools are terrible. Frightfully awful. Honestly, they shouldn’t exist. But they do, and they exist to ensnare persons like a possible future you.

Don’t. Do it.


Elitist bullshit. Just because someone isn't a trust fund baby who attends Columbia doesn't mean that they're a worthless human being. For the record, 88% of CUNY students passed the July 2017 NY bar.

I see the Trump disease is spreading. I guess it's ok to belittle the middle class and minorities...


man you're dumb.


I'm a moron who passed two bar exams (NY and NJ)...


yeah. you are.

L_William_W

Bronze
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:20 am

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby L_William_W » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:02 pm

When did the snooty members of TLS get the right to decide who's worthy and who isn't of attending law school? There are plenty of CUNY graduates who can run circles around a pompous douchebag from Columbia. One of my friends from CUNY who passed the bar on his first attempt became a state senator.

Let's call a spade a spade: The people talking shit about CUNY want the legal profession to consist of only upper crust white people.

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:09 pm

L_William_W wrote:When did the snooty members of TLS get the right to decide who's worthy and who isn't of attending law school? There are plenty of CUNY graduates who can run circles around a pompous douchebag from Columbia. One of my friends from CUNY who passed the bar on his first attempt became a state senator.

Let's call a spade a spade: The people talking shit about CUNY want the legal profession to consist of only upper crust white people.


It's weird that you cite to an example of a state senator as though that's a reasonable outcome for a law student (or as though that represents a level of success in legal practice).

No one is claiming that the students from these schools shouldn't be able to attend law school at all. What people are saying is that these schools are run in a predatory manner and put their students in the untenable position of being unable to secure legal employment with six figures of debt. CUNY is a bit of an exception to that rule due to their low tuition, but even so, it's not a picnic for graduates. Case in point: by your own admission, you took multiple attempts to pass the bar and have posted a plethora of threads on this board about how difficult it was for you to get a job.

User avatar
pancakes3

Platinum
Posts: 6623
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:33 pm

ANGRYBALLCOACH wrote:I've been a lurker on here for a while and figured I'd finally make an account...

Here is my situation:
3.86 GPA
152 LSAT (retaking obvi)
NYC resident so the room and board s̶c̶a̶m̶ isn't an issue
NOT looking for Big Law

Obviously NYU and Columbia ain't happening.
I refuse to pay sticker anywhere, student loans are predatory practice and I refuse to be a victim; personally I rather break concrete for a living (debt free) than owe $180,000+ on a high interest loan that survives bankruptcy.

So I have limited my (realistic) options to the local lower tier schools.
Are they as bad as people say?

Is it a realistic career goal to go to NYLS/Brooklyn/Car-"Bozo" (on significant scholarship) or just pay sticker at CUNY; in order to pursue a career in "small law": aka Real Estate, ADA, Bankruptcy, civil suits, etc.

Edit- will only attend listed schools if given decent scholarship package


1) It's not obvious that NYU and CLS aren't happening. You're above NYU's median, and above CLS's 75th GPA. If you dedicate yourself to studying the very learnable LSAT and score a 170+, NYU/CLS can absolutely happen, and with scholarship money as well.

2) "small law" is... a small legal market. recent grads usually can't find jobs at those firms bc those firms don't grow. they have 1-5 attorneys in the office and they don't add on ppl every year. they may not even hire a new attorney if there's turnover. that's why so many ppl are biglaw or bust - biglaw is the single largest employer of recent grads. period. they're also the most consistent. you KNOW that they're hiring. you also KNOW that courts are hiring clerks - both fed and state. other than that, you don't know who's hiring, or where. you'll have to network and even then it's hard to convince a small business to add tens of thousands of dollars to their overhead to take someone in who may not be profitable for many months.

3) when you look at the employment numbers of students that come out of lower ranked schools, debit is a huge concern but servicing that debt may be an even bigger concern. $20k in loans is still $20k in loans. you need a job to pay those off. for small law, you're not marketable until you pass the bar, and who knows when that would be. it's definitely until October-ish. So from when you attend school in August of year 1 until October of year 4, you are completely unemployed plus however long it takes to find a job. It's scary, man. go read the Vale.

User avatar
SemperLegal

Silver
Posts: 1356
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: NYC lower tier as bad as they say?

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:06 pm

L_William_W wrote:When did the snooty members of TLS get the right to decide who's worthy and who isn't of attending law school? There are plenty of CUNY graduates who can run circles around a pompous douchebag from Columbia. One of my friends from CUNY who passed the bar on his first attempt became a state senator.

Let's call a spade a spade: The people talking shit about CUNY want the legal profession to consist of only upper crust white people.


Let's call it.

You are a three time bar taker, who had to lie for a doc review job, hates the job that you managed to get through a law school classmate, and owe $100,000 in student loans.

Don't you think that maybe your approach to law school is flawed? Yet you think it makes sense for people with a dream to pay upper crust white people tens of thousands of dollars a year only to be no closer to that dream. It's not about who deserves to be a lawyer (almost anyone), it's about who deserves to be 6 figures in debt for a 90% chance at achieving an illusion (no one).


Op, if you really want to be a lawyer (and know what that entails), but your only options are staying in NYC for good, there's only three good options:

1. Going to NYU or Columbia (same cost, but good chance that you'll end up with a job you like and/or the ability to recover the cost through salary or LRAP).

2. Going to Fordham or (maybe Hofstra) with enough aid that you could reasonably pay it off on your CURRENT salary. (There's a good chance you'll fail at getting a job worth going to law school for, but at least failure wouldn't ruin your life.)

3. Going to another LS with the cost covered by scholarships, savings, and possibly a day job if you go at night. (You'll be gambling with your future, but at least it's with your time and money that you can afford to lose).

Keep in mind that for 3, you need to consider GPA requirements, the cost of tuition/bar expenses, books,
paying off other debt and your day-to-day costs (even if room and board is free).

User avatar
Barack O'Drama

Gold
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm

Post removed...

Postby Barack O'Drama » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:50 pm

Post removed...
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Return to “Choosing a Law School?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests