Choosing between T14 and not

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FuGeeLa32

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Choosing between T14 and not

Postby FuGeeLa32 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:49 pm

Quick rundown:
I am considering U of Alabama, U of Colorado-Boulder, U of Washington (Seattle), U of Minnesota, Michigan, and Berkeley.

I have been accepted to Alabama and Colorado and waiting to hear back from the others. Alabama gave me full tuition and possibility for stipend. Colorado gave full for 1L, and $10,000 for 2L and 3L. (Essentially half tuition for all three years).

For any school, anything not covered by scholarship will be covered with loans.
I doubt either Michigan and Berk (if accepted) would give me much money to work with

I want to focus on water and natural resource law, and want to work outside of the South, preferably in the West or Midwest. I selected my schools based on those two criteria.

My numbers are 167/4.0. I took the LSAT twice (163, 167). I'm an engineering major at Alabama.

My main questions:
1. Would it be better to choose either of the two T14 schools (if accepted) and no money or any of the other 4 with money.
2. Given that Colorado is in an region I want to work in, and seemingly has a more developed environmental law concentration, should that outweigh the additional money from Alabama (or any similar school)?

kippercd

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby kippercd » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:07 pm

FuGeeLa32 wrote:Quick rundown:
I am considering U of Alabama, U of Colorado-Boulder, U of Washington (Seattle), U of Minnesota, Michigan, and Berkeley.

I have been accepted to Alabama and Colorado and waiting to hear back from the others. Alabama gave me full tuition and possibility for stipend. Colorado gave full for 1L, and $10,000 for 2L and 3L. (Essentially half tuition for all three years).

For any school, anything not covered by scholarship will be covered with loans.
I doubt either Michigan and Berk (if accepted) would give me much money to work with

I want to focus on water and natural resource law, and want to work outside of the South, preferably in the West or Midwest. I selected my schools based on those two criteria.

My numbers are 167/4.0. I took the LSAT twice (163, 167). I'm an engineering major at Alabama.

My main questions:
1. Would it be better to choose either of the two T14 schools (if accepted) and no money or any of the other 4 with money.
2. Given that Colorado is in an region I want to work in, and seemingly has a more developed environmental law concentration, should that outweigh the additional money from Alabama (or any similar school)?

Whats your total Cost of Attendance at each school? Schools self rank concentrations, dont pick a school for that. Take a look at LST and see what schools have good placement in the areas you want to work (CU is ~65% of students get lawyer jobs whereas Berk is 86%) Also if you want to be outside the south, why Alabama?
Last edited by kippercd on Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rigo

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby Rigo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:19 pm

You should apply to UCLA, USC, and UT immediately.
T20 is where the money for you will be.

Honestly I wouldn't go to anything less than T20.

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blackmamba8

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby blackmamba8 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:27 pm

I have basically the exact same stats as you and will have to make the same kind of decision. I'm thinking of retaking in February to hopefully help with scholarship negotiations.

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pancakes3

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm

a 4.0 engineering major is a pretty rare. don't waste it by doing law, and if you're insistent on doing law, don't waste it by applying with a 167. retake, especially since you're still in school (assumed, based off context clues of your verb tense)

Your goal should be Boalt with scholarship and keeping your fingers crossed for Stanford.

edit: you too mamba.

Rigo

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby Rigo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 pm

Also apply to Cornell and Georgetown.
Your application strategy is a bit whack for your numbers.

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blackmamba8

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby blackmamba8 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:44 pm

You should definitely blanket the T14, OP. I applied to all of them except for Yale, Stanford and Berkeley. So far I'm in at Cornell and got an interview request for U Chicago, and I have shit softs.

FuGeeLa32

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby FuGeeLa32 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:07 pm

OP:
I have apps open and started for Texas, Vandy, and Duke. I just got hit with finals and end-of-semester design projects, so that put me behind schedule. I'm planning on finishing those up the next couple of days.

My main concern, and the reason I picked the schools I picked, is cost. Anything not covered by scholarships will most likely be covered by loans.

I'm keeping COAs and job placement numbers in mind. As far as concentrations, I've mainly been looking at courses offered, faculty numbers, and clinics within a school's environmental law concentration.

Even if get into a T14 (or 17 or 20 or whatever the hell the number is), I'm leery of paying sticker. Because I don't know about y'all, but that's significant amount of money

Rigo

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby Rigo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:08 pm

You'll get a near full ride from USC, fyi.
Not saying you should definitely go there but for someone who wants west coast I don't see why you're not applying to the west coast T20's.

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Mullens

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby Mullens » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:11 pm

FuGeeLa32 wrote:OP:
I have apps open and started for Texas, Vandy, and Duke. I just got hit with finals and end-of-semester design projects, so that put me behind schedule. I'm planning on finishing those up the next couple of days.

My main concern, and the reason I picked the schools I picked, is cost. Anything not covered by scholarships will most likely be covered by loans.

I'm keeping COAs and job placement numbers in mind. As far as concentrations, I've mainly been looking at courses offered, faculty numbers, and clinics within a school's environmental law concentration.

Even if get into a T14 (or 17 or 20 or whatever the hell the number is), I'm leery of paying sticker. Because I don't know about y'all, but that's significant amount of money


So you’re worried about cost and job prospects? You know the easiest way to hit both of those with a 4.0? RETAKE THE GODDAMN LSAT AND SAVE YOURSELF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND/OR THE HIT IN JOB PROSPECTS THAT WILL DEFINE YOUR CAREER.

FuGeeLa32

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby FuGeeLa32 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:51 pm

So if (IF) my general options came down to
1) T14 with no money
2) T14-20 with some money
3) T20-30 with a lot or all money

How should I weigh these? That's really my main concern

(@Rigo: I'll look at adding Cornell and UCLA. I'm really just looking for a region outside of the South. Been here all my life, so I want to see somewhere new, and there might be better opportunities for environmental and water law)

Rigo

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby Rigo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:02 pm

You should apply broadly and then look at your water law thing. Don't discount schools that will give you $100k+ more in $$$ right off the bat because of some niche specialization.

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby Rigo » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:06 pm

Environmental law org hiring, like all prestigious PI, is about pedigree too so consider that.
Check out earthjustice or nrdc, and you'll see a ton of HYS, good amount of CCN, and a smattering of the rest of the T14 (with Berkeley somewhat overperforming probably).

Just keep that in mind. I'd rally for a February retake just to leave no stones unturned though.
In the meantime, apply more places over the holidays.
You need more $$$ options (T20 + Cornell). You should no attend Colorado or Alabama (or Washington which is notoriously stingy). You have the numbers to pull solid aid from good (better than you set your sights) schools.

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pancakes3

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:41 pm

Retake. For the love of God, retake.

Work for a year - study for that year - attend HLS/SLS/Boalt w/$$$. What part of this doesn't make sense? Why is CU at half-tuition even being considered?!

38981928

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby 38981928 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:48 pm

I know someone in Harvard with your LSAT and a lower GPA (econ and poli sci major). I know another in NYU with lower LSAT and GPA (international relations and philosophy major). All anecdotal of course and definitely don't use that as a guarantee that you'll get in, but a 4.0 in engineering is NUTS and I'm sure many schools will look at that very highly. You are absolutely capable of getting into some really great T20 schools with good $$$.

ETA: Also, yes, RETAKE if waiting a little longer is an option for you!

carsondalywashere

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby carsondalywashere » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:39 pm

Colorado gives shit scholarships.

Retake and reapply to WAY more schools.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Choosing between T14 and not

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:56 pm

If you don’t want to work in the south, don’t go to Alabama.

If you want to do water stuff in Colorado, Colorado for cheap is actually a decent option (but unfortunately their scholarships aren’t great...the school gets almost no money from the state and the amounts are the same as when tuition was a lot lower, though none of that helps you). If you want west more broadly, like actual west coast, then I agree that you should look into the California schools.

Unfortunately it’s my impression that UW is also pretty stingy with scholarships. It will also be most helpful for Seattle, and not really the west more broadly.

And of course the T14 are the more national schools and obviously place the best nationally. I think though that if you don’t currently have any ties to the west (or midwest) you will be best served going to school locally to cultivate them. (There’s a lot of water stuff in the west that isn’t national level PI/is more about connections than pure pedigree.)



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