3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

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dlutfy
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3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby dlutfy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:11 pm

I have two 167s on record and I'm registered to write in December but I've been so busy I haven't had time to do any studying basically. My heart really isn't into it like it was the last two times I took it.

I (preferably) want to live in New York City, D.C., or Texas - in that order (all would be acceptable.)

Are there any good options I would have with my stats? I just don't know what schools I should target. I have extremely weak softs btw (K-JD at a state school.)

My goal is big law with a chance of federal clerkship if I do really well in law school. Not getting a federal clerkship is not a deal breaker for me.

Thanks for your help.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:20 pm

You have a decent shot at the lower T13 as is. Try motivating yourself for this retake by thinking of how many tens of thousands of dollars a 1-2 point increase on your LSAT is worth.

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rpupkin
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby rpupkin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:21 pm

Think of it this way: If you can't motivate yourself to improve your LSAT score—which is far and away the most significant thing in your control that will increase your chances of reaching your goals—then how are you going to motivate yourself to study for law school exams?

If you're heart isn't into the December LSAT, then cancel and sign up for next June or September. You're K-JD; you would be better off waiting another year (or two) anyway.

dlutfy
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby dlutfy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:36 pm

rpupkin wrote:Think of it this way: If you can't motivate yourself to improve your LSAT score—which is far and away the most significant thing in your control that will increase your chances of reaching your goals—then how are you going to motivate yourself to study for law school exams?

If you're heart isn't into the December LSAT, then cancel and sign up for next June or September. You're K-JD; you would be better off waiting another year (or two) anyway.


I want to wait a year but with a deferment. How would sending in all my applications (even to schools like NYU) and retaking in February sound? I feel like a lot of schools are gonna waitlist me with my current stats.

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pancakes3
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby pancakes3 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:43 pm

what? no. just hold off on taking the LSAT until you're ready and apply next cycle.

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Barack O'Drama
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby Barack O'Drama » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:50 pm

rpupkin wrote:Think of it this way: If you can't motivate yourself to improve your LSAT score—which is far and away the most significant thing in your control that will increase your chances of reaching your goals—then how are you going to motivate yourself to study for law school exams?



Every single person who studying for the LSAT should print this out and put it in the fridge.

100% accurate and well said.

dlutfy
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby dlutfy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:57 pm

pancakes3 wrote:what? no. just hold off on taking the LSAT until you're ready and apply next cycle.


I don't have anything to do. I'm a history major and I haven't applied to any real jobs. It's also a huge risk if I don't improve my score - it's hard for someone of average intelligence (me) to improve on a 95th percentile score. If I don't improve I effectively wasted a year of my life.

Madmen321
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby Madmen321 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:03 pm

I agree that retaking is the prudent course of action if you can stomach it and think you will improve.

I completely disagree that motivating yourself to take the LSAT is the same as motivating yourself to take LS exams. I took the former twice and had serious trouble motivating myself after round one and ended up cancelling my second score. Despite this, I never had any trouble taking exams in law school or motivating myself to study for them. The two might be related in the sense that they are both generally proxies for work ethic but they are vastily different in other respects.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:12 pm

dlutfy wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:what? no. just hold off on taking the LSAT until you're ready and apply next cycle.


I don't have anything to do. I'm a history major and I haven't applied to any real jobs. It's also a huge risk if I don't improve my score - it's hard for someone of average intelligence (me) to improve on a 95th percentile score. If I don't improve I effectively wasted a year of my life.


So start applying to real jobs. It's November.

It's not that big a risk to not improve your score, because no one will give a shit about anything besides the highest score. But spending a year (at least) out of school is never a waste.

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pancakes3
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby pancakes3 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:30 pm

so lay it out for me, have you been so busy that you haven't had time to study or do you think you've maxed out your score?
are you a person of average intelligence ability who can't get a "normal job" or do you see yourself as a viable candidate for A3 clerking?

just shut up and retake.

dlutfy
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby dlutfy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:51 pm

pancakes3 wrote:so lay it out for me, have you been so busy that you haven't had time to study or do you think you've maxed out your score?
are you a person of average intelligence ability who can't get a "normal job" or do you see yourself as a viable candidate for A3 clerking?

just shut up and retake.


I got 4 wrong on the very easy logic games in September and my PT average was 171.

I've been busy because I'm taking 18 credits and I work.

You're right. idk. I guess I was feeling kind of defeated today. I'm just really scared of another underperformance in December.

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rpupkin
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby rpupkin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:05 pm

Madmen321 wrote:I completely disagree that motivating yourself to take the LSAT is the same as motivating yourself to take LS exams.

I didn't say it was the same. I think you missed the point.

181plz
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby 181plz » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:57 pm

Why do you feel the need to get applications out now and defer? Just finish UG, and study hard for June/September and send apps next year. It’s probably not feasible to get ready by December. Many people have taken the LSAT 3 times or more. It’s not preferable, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Edit: my first two takes were both worse than your 167 and I eventually broke into top 1%.

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Dcc617
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby Dcc617 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:21 am

If you’re K-JD you should be taking time off anyway. Work for a couple years to save money, get experience, etc. Law school will still be there.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby existentialcrisis » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:05 pm

Dcc617 wrote:If you’re K-JD you should be taking time off anyway. Work for a couple years to save money, get experience, etc. Law school will still be there.


This 1000% percent.

I was a K-JD, with basically the same rationale as the OP.

Now I tell everyone and their mother not to do it.

Foodz
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby Foodz » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Theres no harm in taking time off, but also there is no harm applying with your scores this year and seeing what happens. With a 167, you should still be getting fee waivers to most of the T14 schools. If you can stomach it, I would retake the LSAT, but if you can't, remember that 167 is still a good score!

lsatmom7
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby lsatmom7 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:47 pm

You should be very proud of your scores and GPA. State schools are very respectable. Please don't be disheartened. You will get into some great schools but you need to apply now, the earlier the better and craft some amazing essays. All the best to you!!

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:20 pm

lsatmom7 wrote:You should be very proud of your scores and GPA. State schools are very respectable. Please don't be disheartened. You will get into some great schools but you need to apply now, the earlier the better and craft some amazing essays. All the best to you!!


No one said that state schools weren't respectable. But the OP wants biglaw and a federal clerkship. That's not very likely from a T1.

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UVA2B
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby UVA2B » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:23 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
lsatmom7 wrote:You should be very proud of your scores and GPA. State schools are very respectable. Please don't be disheartened. You will get into some great schools but you need to apply now, the earlier the better and craft some amazing essays. All the best to you!!


No one said that state schools weren't respectable. But the OP wants biglaw and a federal clerkship. That's not very likely from a T1.


TCR here is absolutely retaking, but this person is really unlikely to not have T13 options. It'd likely be T13 for little vs. T1 for free.

Obviously it could be T13 for free with a retake, which is why it's stupid not to retake, but we need to at least acknowledge that the OP would probably have decent options for their goals, albeit more expensive than they need to be.

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pancakes3
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:01 am

UVa, Boalt, UMich, and UT are all state schools.

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Dcc617
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby Dcc617 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:24 am

Foodz wrote:Theres no harm in taking time off, but also there is no harm applying with your scores this year and seeing what happens. With a 167, you should still be getting fee waivers to most of the T14 schools. If you can stomach it, I would retake the LSAT, but if you can't, remember that 167 is still a good score!


Except that taking time off is good per se. I’d advise taking time off if the OP had a 180 and 4.0.

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:08 am

existentialcrisis wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:If you’re K-JD you should be taking time off anyway. Work for a couple years to save money, get experience, etc. Law school will still be there.


This 1000% percent.

I was a K-JD, with basically the same rationale as the OP.

Now I tell everyone and their mother not to do it.


IDK, I'm a K-JD at a T13 with a pretty decent scholarship, and I'm digging it so far.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby existentialcrisis » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:21 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:If you’re K-JD you should be taking time off anyway. Work for a couple years to save money, get experience, etc. Law school will still be there.


This 1000% percent.

I was a K-JD, with basically the same rationale as the OP.

Now I tell everyone and their mother not to do it.


IDK, I'm a K-JD at a T13 with a pretty decent scholarship, and I'm digging it so far.


I don’t know if that’s supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

I was also at a T13. Now I’m a K-Jd in biglaw. If nothing else, I think I would be much, much better at my job if I’d had real work experience before.

And that is only one of the many reasons why people should take time off.

cavalier1138
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:37 am

existentialcrisis wrote:If nothing else, I think I would be much, much better at my job if I’d had real work experience before.


Pretty much this. You'd be surprised how many life skills you pick up by taking some time off school.

mcmand
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Re: 3.9 167 (twice) - need advice

Postby mcmand » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:03 pm

dlutfy wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:so lay it out for me, have you been so busy that you haven't had time to study or do you think you've maxed out your score?
are you a person of average intelligence ability who can't get a "normal job" or do you see yourself as a viable candidate for A3 clerking?

just shut up and retake.


I got 4 wrong on the very easy logic games in September and my PT average was 171.

I've been busy because I'm taking 18 credits and I work.

You're right. idk. I guess I was feeling kind of defeated today. I'm just really scared of another underperformance in December.


If you have a job now, that means you're capable of getting a job after graduation. You will not starve and die under a bridge if things aren't perfectly set up for you after you walk across the stage. One of the reasons why it's important to take time off before law school is because you need to learn how to function in the adult world, which means struggling, hustling, and adapting to a different lifestyle and mindset. There aren't many other ways to learn those things other than having to be responsible for yourself and not having school structure your life.

Your posts scream to me that you need a year off. Retake in June, give yourself the space and time to prepare, as well as find a job.




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